Which Coyote takes the biggest step in 17/18?

[Hinterland]

Domingue is still going to have to break through and earn more games. There's certainly a good chance he's outright given some more games behind Raanta but it's already been made clear that Raanta is the starter.

So it would take a lot for Domingue to break through especially to an extent surpassing any of the names on the list.

It's already clear that Raanta is a backup. He's old, small but with below average mobility and never even played half a season. Your typical career backup. To hope for more would be foolish. Domingue is a very talented goaltender who got badly mishandled by Tippett and co. He might or might not work out but he he never had a real chance. If the new Coaches intend to do the same, then they can go right back where they came from...in my view at least.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

It's already clear that Raanta is a backup. He's old, small but with below average mobility and never even played half a season. Your typical career backup. To hope for more would be foolish. Domingue is a very talented goaltender who got badly mishandled by Tippett and co. He might or might not work out but he he never had a real chance. If the new Coaches intend to do the same, then they can go right back where they came from...in my view at least.

Don't know what quotes you've been reading, but Raanta is certainly the starter. Domingue may get more chances but to suggest he's the starter is just ignoring everything that our brass has said

 

[JeiJeieL]

It's already clear that Raanta is a backup. He's old, small but with below average mobility and never even played half a season. Your typical career backup. To hope for more would be foolish. Domingue is a very talented goaltender who got badly mishandled by Tippett and co. He might or might not work out but he he never had a real chance. If the new Coaches intend to do the same, then they can go right back where they came from...in my view at least.

Sure he is.

https://www.nhl.com/coyotes/news/raanta-eager-to-become-a-no-1-goalie/c-290338014?tid=277567764

 

[Hinterland]

Don't know what quotes you've been reading, but Raanta is certainly the starter. Domingue may get more chances but to suggest he's the starter is just ignoring everything that our brass has said

I'm not reading hockey press at all at this time of the year.
That said...whoever thinks that an old but inexperienced and unproven, a small but still below average moving career backup could all of a sudden turn into a starter did most likely escape a madhouse and should be returned rather than given a job in die NHL. Domingue is a project and might or might not work out but other than maybe confidence and mental strength, there's just about nothing Raanta does better than Domingue. No need to be a genius to see that. Raanta should play 50% at best...and if he does so, he'd play 11 more games than ever before. Like I said. Your typical career backup. He's 28. Hoping for a miracle there would be like believing in Santa Claus...

 

[Naych_PHX]

I'm not reading hockey press at all at this time of the year.
That said...whoever thinks that an old but inexperienced and unproven, a small but still below average moving career backup could all of a sudden turn into a starter did most likely escape a madhouse and should be returned rather than given a job in die NHL. Domingue is a project and might or might not work out but other than maybe confidence and mental strength, there's just about nothing Raanta does better than Domingue. No need to be a genius to see that. Raanta should play 50% at best...and if he does so, he'd play 11 more games than ever before. Like I said. Your typical career backup. He's 28. Hoping for a miracle there would be like believing in Santa Claus...

Raanta Claus

 

[Lilhoody]

You are missing the point. Other teams will learn how to stop this line, and then what. Why should Domi suffer because Duclair can't produce. We are not talking Crosby or McDavid here.

Yes, sorry..."the point" must be with your missing question marks.

 

[Grvmnd]

It's already clear that Raanta is a backup. He's old, small but with below average mobility and never even played half a season. Your typical career backup. To hope for more would be foolish. Domingue is a very talented goaltender who got badly mishandled by Tippett and co. He might or might not work out but he he never had a real chance. If the new Coaches intend to do the same, then they can go right back where they came from...in my view at least.

Honestly can't tell if you're just being hyperbolic. If raanta is too old at 28 doesn't that make Mike Smith and ancient relic grandpa? Playing goal is hard and takes more mental maturity. Something Smitty doesn't have the time to figure out.

 

[Hinterland]

Honestly can't tell if you're just being hyperbolic. If raanta is too old at 28 doesn't that make Mike Smith and ancient relic grandpa? Playing goal is hard and takes more mental maturity. Something Smitty doesn't have the time to figure out.

I wasn't a fan of Smith either...if that's what you're referring to...Domingue has more talent. But at least Smith is big.
28yo Backups don't often turn into starters...and I've never seen a smallish starter who didn't offer outstanding movement like for example Quick. Raanta has a pretty good positioning and because he didn't play much and for winning teams only, it worked out for him. If he plays more, he's gonna get figured out quickly (I've seen it happening to better goalies), especially if not playing for a contender...so he's a sure bet to fail if some genius really thinks he's a starter.

 

[RemoAZ]

"We made the acquisition of Antti expecting him to be our No. 1," Coyotes General Manager John Chayka said. "…We think he needs some opportunity and some support ... In our analysis, he was the No. 1 guy we were going after (this off-season), and when we got a chance to get him we wanted to make sure we got him."

 

[Hinterland]

"We made the acquisition of Antti expecting him to be our No. 1," Coyotes General Manager John Chayka said. "…We think he needs some opportunity and some support ... In our analysis, he was the No. 1 guy we were going after (this off-season), and when we got a chance to get him we wanted to make sure we got him."

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/02/16...ealthy-scratch-mcginn-he-of-the-10m-contract/

I'm not surprised

 

[XX]

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/02/16...ealthy-scratch-mcginn-he-of-the-10m-contract/

I'm not surprised

If you're just going to hang around to pine for guys like Fournier, I don't know how you expect to come off as a credible critic of Chayka. Goalies tend to turn into starters in their late 20s, so Raanta is right on track. Most goalies are "career backups" until they get a clear cut chance to win a starting job, if they're lucky. What do you think happened with Smith? It's almost like you're completely, objectively wrong with your assessment.

 

[Jakey53]

I don't mind Duclair on the Domi line most of the time, but he will need to develop chemistry with other players. If he can only produce with Domi, he's got far less value. As an example, should Domi be lost for a bunch of games, Duclair will have to take up some of the slack rather than drop his production.

Exactly, and look what happened when Domi went down last year. Duclair can not depend on Domi. Coaches change lines during periods, games etc. depending on how your players are playing against the other teams.

 

[Jakey53]

If you're just going to hang around to pine for guys like Fournier, I don't know how you expect to come off as a credible critic of Chayka. Goalies tend to turn into starters in their late 20s, so Raanta is right on track. Most goalies are "career backups" until they get a clear cut chance to win a starting job, if they're lucky. What do you think happened with Smith? It's almost like you're completely, objectively wrong with your assessment.

That is usually what happens.

 

[Hinterland]

If you're just going to hang around to pine for guys like Fournier, I don't know how you expect to come off as a credible critic of Chayka. Goalies tend to turn into starters in their late 20s, so Raanta is right on track. Most goalies are "career backups" until they get a clear cut chance to win a starting job, if they're lucky. What do you think happened with Smith? It's almost like you're completely, objectively wrong with your assessment.

Except that Domingue played more games than Raanta ever did in two seasons already. Raanta really didn't play all that much. For good reasons. I tried to explain it several times. As a small goalie, you can only be a successful starter if your movement is off the charts. Raanta's clearly isn't. I've never seen a small goalie earning a starting job in the NHL just with good positioning and that's what Raanta is all about. Raanta was solid because he hardly played. Aaron Dell is a similar case. Pretty solid backup but be sure he couldn't make up for the lack of size if he'd get more starts. Goalies like that do get figured out rather quickly. Like I said. I've seen it happening to better ones. Not everyone's a Jonathan Quick.

 

[Naych_PHX]

Except that Domingue played more games than Raanta ever did in two seasons already. Raanta really didn't play all that much. For good reasons. I tried to explain it several times. As a small goalie, you can only be a successful starter if your movement is off the charts. Raanta's clearly isn't. I've never seen a small goalie earning a starting job in the NHL just with good positioning and that's what Raanta is all about. Raanta was solid because he hardly played. Aaron Dell is a similar case. Pretty solid backup but be sure he couldn't make up for the lack of size if he'd get more starts. Goalies like that do get figured out rather quickly. Like I said. I've seen it happening to better ones. Not everyone's a Jonathan Quick.

Why do you keep calling him "small"? What's the matter with you? What's the matter with being 6'0"? You're acting like no goalie ever who played as a backup became a decent starter. Yes, there are countless examples of goalies disappointing but that doesn't mean teams SHOULDN'T take a chance on a goalie who still has potential. Especially one that makes only 1 mill. You know, Kiprusoff had played pretty much the exact same number of games before he became CGY's starter when he was... 28.

If you like Domingue, that's fine. I like him too. This is also his chance to take the reigns. No one is putting him down. If Raanta struggles, I like that we have Louie there. He could very well play his way into being the starter at the end of the season. Doesn't mean you have to predict failure for Raanta.

 

[XX]

Except that Domingue played more games than Raanta ever did in two seasons already. Raanta really didn't play all that much. For good reasons. I tried to explain it several times. As a small goalie, you can only be a successful starter if your movement is off the charts. Raanta's clearly isn't. I've never seen a small goalie earning a starting job in the NHL just with good positioning and that's what Raanta is all about. Raanta was solid because he hardly played. Aaron Dell is a similar case. Pretty solid backup but be sure he couldn't make up for the lack of size if he'd get more starts. Goalies like that do get figured out rather quickly. Like I said. I've seen it happening to better ones. Not everyone's a Jonathan Quick.

Stick with the workload argument, because the dude is obviously elite if he's in the league and has been targeted in trade by another team. He was the #1 choice in every analysis Chayka did. I don't see any reason to believe that he's automatically doomed or that suggesting he becomes a 1b starter is stupid.

 

[Hinterland]

Stick with the workload argument, because the dude is obviously elite if he's in the league and has been targeted in trade by another team. He was the #1 choice in every analysis Chayka did. I don't see any reason to believe that he's automatically doomed or that suggesting he becomes a 1b starter is stupid.

Uhm yes...because Monsieur Chayka's analyis, whatever he does, worked all that well so far
He drafted Chychrun and traded away a few players with decent return. But who did he sign or trade for that leads you to believe that Chayka is any good? Schenn maybe. I like the guy a lot. But other than that? Goligoski has done okay at best and everybody else is either with the Coyotes because of Maloney, hasn't proven anything or was just a complete bust. It is what it is. Sorry to destroy your illusions...I like where the organization is at but that's mostly because of Maloney and Barroway who finally did some housekeeping...

 

[Hinterland]

Why do you keep calling him "small"? What's the matter with you? What's the matter with being 6'0"? You're acting like no goalie ever who played as a backup became a decent starter. Yes, there are countless examples of goalies disappointing but that doesn't mean teams SHOULDN'T take a chance on a goalie who still has potential. Especially one that makes only 1 mill. You know, Kiprusoff had played pretty much the exact same number of games before he became CGY's starter when he was... 28.

If you like Domingue, that's fine. I like him too. This is also his chance to take the reigns. No one is putting him down. If Raanta struggles, I like that we have Louie there. He could very well play his way into being the starter at the end of the season. Doesn't mean you have to predict failure for Raanta.

I'm 6'0 myself so I know. 6'0 is really boarderline for a hockey goalie. You mentioned the 6'1 Kiprusoff. Great goalie but that man, just like Quick nowadays, was moving like a snake. Raanta doesn't have that and currently, there's NO 6'0 starting goalie in the NHL. A few 6'1 ones like Quick, Lundqvist or Greiss and those guys are that good because they're such mobile goaltenders. If you're that small but not moving well, you have zero chance to be a starter in the NHL. I haven't seen good enough movement from Raanta so far. Not even close. He's cheating with smart positioning and if I had one, I'd bet my house that it won't take the other teams long to figure him out should he play more games. Btw, it's also no coincidence that smaller elite goalies are more often injured than others. Quick or Howard are brilliant examples. Almost always lower body, often groin. Just goes to show what you have to do as a goalie if you're not Devan Dubnyk or Pekka Rinne.

 

[cobra427]

I'm 6'0 myself so I know. 6'0 is really boarderline for a hockey goalie. You mentioned the 6'1 Kiprusoff. Great goalie but that man, just like Quick nowadays, was moving like a snake. Raanta doesn't have that and currently, there's NO 6'0 starting goalie in the NHL. A few 6'1 ones like Quick, Lundqvist or Greiss and those guys are that good because they're such mobile goaltenders. If you're that small but not moving well, you have zero chance to be a starter in the NHL. I haven't seen good enough movement from Raanta so far. Not even close. He's cheating with smart positioning and if I had one, I'd bet my house that it won't take the other teams long to figure him out should he play more games. Btw, it's also no coincidence that smaller elite goalies are more often injured than others. Quick or Howard are brilliant examples. Almost always lower body, often groin. Just goes to show what you have to do as a goalie if you're not Devan Dubnyk or Pekka Rinne.

I see your points and your argument. I am concerned because his workload will go way up as a starter, he will have more pressure as the #1 guy, and he is on a worse team. He and Darling are in the same boat. I also think Smith played well last year, so Raanta has tough shoes to fill. Goaiies can mature later, so his age at 28 is fine, totally different then forwards. Goalies are a big gamble and this might or might not work out.

LD, was great 2 years ago, and not good last year. He might or might not work out but I would be more scared if he were our proclaimed #1 going into this year. I mostly hope our D is much better so the goalie doesn't have all the pressure on them like last year.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm 6'0 myself so I know. 6'0 is really boarderline for a hockey goalie. You mentioned the 6'1 Kiprusoff. Great goalie but that man, just like Quick nowadays, was moving like a snake. Raanta doesn't have that and currently, there's NO 6'0 starting goalie in the NHL. A few 6'1 ones like Quick, Lundqvist or Greiss and those guys are that good because they're such mobile goaltenders. If you're that small but not moving well, you have zero chance to be a starter in the NHL. I haven't seen good enough movement from Raanta so far. Not even close. He's cheating with smart positioning and if I had one, I'd bet my house that it won't take the other teams long to figure him out should he play more games. Btw, it's also no coincidence that smaller elite goalies are more often injured than others. Quick or Howard are brilliant examples. Almost always lower body, often groin. Just goes to show what you have to do as a goalie if you're not Devan Dubnyk or Pekka Rinne.

Greiss is not that good. He is better as a backup and I would take Raanta over him 10 out of 10 times. Quick moves like no other and that is his style and he is very good at it. Lundqvist plays he angles very well and that is why he is good, but he is no where as quick as Quick. Goalies are a different breed, and I have seen goalies play good one year and blow the next, and Smith is a good example of that, and he didn't magically grow 4" in one year. I think the big thing for goalies is the mental part of the game, some can cut it some can't. You may be right about Raanta, but Stepan seems to think he is a great goalie, so let's wait and see who is right. You want to talk about injuries, just ask Smith. In fact Smith played in less games than Quick the last three years.

 

[Mosby]

The goalie height stuff gets too much traction IMO. Lindback for example is 6-foot-6 and can't stop a beach ball. Even funnier is the argument that 6 feet is too small but 6-1 is okay but this standard. We're talking literally this much: ____________

The game has changed but some of the best goalies of all time weren't very big either. Patrick Roy 6'0, Belfour 5'11, Cujo 5'11, Fuhr 5'10.

I think there are about 5 or 6 goalies in the league who are 6 feet or shorter. So about 10% of the goalies in the league. I'd like to see how that stacks up vs. defensemen and forwards.

 

[Hinterland]

Greiss is not that good. He is better as a backup and I would take Raanta over him 10 out of 10 times. Quick moves like no other and that is his style and he is very good at it. Lundqvist plays he angles very well and that is why he is good, but he is no where as quick as Quick. Goalies are a different breed, and I have seen goalies play good one year and blow the next, and Smith is a good example of that, and he didn't magically grow 4" in one year. I think the big thing for goalies is the mental part of the game, some can cut it some can't. You may be right about Raanta, but Stepan seems to think he is a great goalie, so let's wait and see who is right. You want to talk about injuries, just ask Smith. In fact Smith played in less games than Quick the last three years.

You would seriously take Raanta over Greiss? Now I'm seriously worried about you...are you okay?
Of course Greiss isn't all that good. A 1b at best...but he's coming off back to back 50%+ seasons and did well in both of them. Raanta never even played anything close from 50%.
Mental part isn't one of Raanta's problems. He just plain and simply lacks size, talent and mobility. He could train and work out day and night...it's not gonna change anything. All he can do is cheat. As a backup playing 20 games you can get away with it...otherwise not. Not in the NHL. Mark my words.

Domingue is the exact opposite. Kid has it all. Hejust needs to mentally recover from what has been done to him. Also needs to track the puck better.

 

[Hinterland]

The goalie height stuff gets too much traction IMO. Lindback for example is 6-foot-6 and can't stop a beach ball. Even funnier is the argument that 6 feet is too small but 6-1 is okay but this standard. We're talking literally this much: ____________

The game has changed but some of the best goalies of all time weren't very big either. Patrick Roy 6'0, Belfour 5'11, Cujo 5'11, Fuhr 5'10.

I think there are about 5 or 6 goalies in the league who are 6 feet or shorter. So about 10% of the goalies in the league. I'd like to see how that stacks up vs. defensemen and forwards.

It's like I said. No 6'0 goalie played even 50% last seasons. Guys like Quick, Howard, Greiss or Lundqvist are 6'1 but they're all known for outstanding movement and mobility. Of course they're not all Jonathan Quicks but I wouldn't say that Raanta is anywhere close. Say what you want but size is key for a goalie. If a smallish goalie, I'd much rather have a talented one like Pickard or Saros. Raanta isn't the solution. Should have kept Johnson to share the job with Domingue...

 

[WrinkledPossum]

I'm not as high on Raanta as some, but the arguments regarding his age and height are silly. He's not old, he's 28. He's entering the prime of his career. Now that makes for a not-so ideal fit with our very young team but he is not old. He is the same age as Talbot was when he moved from being NY's backup to being EDM's starter. That backup to starter transition has worked amazingly for Edmonton, and it's what we're hoping to repeat.

And calling Raanta small at 6'0 is a bit silly. There are plenty of goalies who are around that height who are starters, there's only an inch or two difference between Raanta and like half the starters in the NHL.

 

[_Del_]

Our last starter was a backup before we picked him up at 27. This is inane.