Prospect Info: Where would Jiricek rank in the HF Wild prospect rankings?

[MNRube]

Am I not doing the math correctly, or did he not turn 18 four games into his freshman season?

Yes. Most fall birthdays turn 18 their senior year of HS. He was basically a senior in HS playing C in the Big Ten.

 

[Luceni]

I'd rank Jiricek around Ohgren. Jiricek's ceiling might be higher but Ohgren is the safer bet to become a serviceable NHLer. It's nice to have both while I still think trading for Jiricek was a bold, risky move by Guerin. But it could work out.

 

[BagHead]

Yes. Most fall birthdays turn 18 their senior year of HS. He was basically a senior in HS playing C in the Big Ten.

He was a very young college freshman. He also regressed offensively (and in usage) last year versus when he was a very young college freshman. By the numbers and trend, there was little reason to rank him higher last summer. You say its insanity that he was ranked there, but there are clear reasons that he was, and there were clear reasons to rank others higher.

I would rank him higher today than I did last summer, but not high. But he's moving up the ranking, and that's good. I'm always open to moving guys around as they earn it (or lose it).

 

[MNRube]

He was a very young college freshman. He also regressed offensively (and in usage) last year versus when he was a very young college freshman. By the numbers and trend, there was little reason to rank him higher last summer. You say its insanity that he was ranked there, but there are clear reasons that he was, and there were clear reasons to rank others higher.

I would rank him higher today than I did last summer, but not high. But he's moving up the ranking, and that's good. I'm always open to moving guys around as they earn it (or lose it).

There were clear reasons. But also much more evidence to suggest this was a blip in his development. Reactionary and lazy analysis by a lot of Wild fans here

 

[f7ben]

Shouldn’t this thread just be part of the prospects discussion?

 

[north21]

There were clear reasons. But also much more evidence to suggest this was a blip in his development. Reactionary and lazy analysis by a lot of Wild fans here

Two entire seasons isn't a blip let alone lazy.

 

[MNRube]

Two entire seasons isn't a blip let alone lazy.

One season. We’ve been over his freshman year already. He performed well enough for a HS senior. People treat him like a lottery pick. He was never going to score much in the NHL. Not ideal upside for a 1st rounder but still significantly higher value than the guys who were ranked ahead of him (Healey, etc)

 

[Digitalbooya]

Two entire seasons isn't a blip let alone lazy.

Most players did not perform well under Granato for one reason or another. Guys like K’Andre Miller even got worse from one season to the next.

Stramel had no structure as a freshman. His sophomore year he was never given an opportunity to make a difference with the structure Hastings brought. Pasted to the 4th line with the occasional 3rd line appearance. I liked the chances he did create and it always felt like his line was in the offensive zone, but there’s only so much that can be done with limited minutes and non-skill linemates.

 

[north21]

One season. We’ve been over his freshman year already. He performed well enough for a HS senior. People treat him like a lottery pick. He was never going to score much in the NHL. Not ideal upside for a 1st rounder but still significantly higher value than the guys who were ranked ahead of him (Healey, etc)

Do we get to throw out Healey's freshman year? Who is setting the rules of the game?

 

[Digitalbooya]

Do we get to throw out Healey's freshman year? Who is setting the rules of the game?

Healey being -26 last year is much more concerning than his freshman year.

@MNRube There is a contingent on here that hate or severely discredit Stramel due to circumstance outside of his control (Perrault, his role on the team, played for Wisconsin, etc). Probably best to just ignore those people.

 

[BagHead]

Healey being -26 last year is much more concerning than his freshman year.

@MNRube There is a contingent on here that hate or severely discredit Stramel due to circumstance outside of his control (Perrault, his role on the team, played for Wisconsin, etc). Probably best to just ignore those people.

I don't doubt some here have that motivation. I do, however, think Stramel's lack of production in juniors (never reached point per game, not even for Rosemount High), combined with his struggling start in the NCAA, gave a lot of us pause and caused him to be ranked lowly in this poll.

I want to give him all the credit due for the season he is having, but I need to temper that with his history of lack of production and ask myself "Last year was a year where everything went wrong for him, but is this just a year where everything is going right, instead? Is it repeatable with a different coach and team?" I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love cheering for guys who get crapped on by the fanbase, so I'm firmly in his corner. He has moved up something like 7-8 spots in my personal rankings. If he has another good year next year, he'll move up again because he'll have proved it.

If he wants to be a guy who gets ranked toward the top of a prospect pool, he needs to be a guy who forces his way into the conversation with good play through a reasonable amount of adversity (WI might have been an unreasonable amount), not just when things are going right. So we'll see.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

There were clear reasons. But also much more evidence to suggest this was a blip in his development. Reactionary and lazy analysis by a lot of Wild fans here

He hadn't shown anything exemplary since bantams. At best, what he was doing was 'fine' for a 1st round pick. At worst, it was pretty bad.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Healey being -26 last year is much more concerning than his freshman year.

I'd need to know how many of those minuses were empty netters, since Harvard was losing a lot last year.

There definitely weren't 26 of them, but maybe it cuts it in half, which obviously looks a little better.

 

[MNRube]

Do we get to throw out Healey's freshman year? Who is setting the rules of the game?

Up to you. But it’s quite clear which player is the better NHL prospect

 

[MNRube]

He hadn't shown anything exemplary since bantams. At best, what he was doing was 'fine' for a 1st round pick. At worst, it was pretty bad.

You’re looking for linear production from a clear project pick. He’s the antithesis of Heidt. Heidt has played against teenagers for 4 years now, and Stramel decided to play against men when he should’ve been a HS senior. Now, last year was obviously a disaster. Things looked bleak, but the size and smarts and defensive conscientiousness was still visible.

But look at him now, a disruptive force playing 1C on the best team in the country and still only scratching the surface.

Never reached PPG at Rosemount? He was 15 years old for crying out loud. A freaking freshman. Tough crowd.

I don’t think it was a great pick, especially with GP on the board but man, I agree with DGB that the analysis from Wild fans has been way out of touch.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You’re looking for linear production from a clear project pick. He’s the antithesis of Heidt. Heidt has played against teenagers for 4 years now, and Stramel decided to play against men when he should’ve been a HS senior. Now, last year was obviously a disaster. Things looked bleak, but the size and smarts and defensive conscientiousness was still visible.

But look at him now, a disruptive force playing 1C on the best team in the country and still only scratching the surface.

Never reached PPG at Rosemount? He was 15 years old for crying out loud. A freaking freshman. Tough crowd.

I don’t think it was a great pick, especially with GP on the board but man, I agree with DGB that the analysis from Wild fans has been way out of touch.

I think you have a pretty generous definition of "disruptive force".

I think his birth date has done him a disservice and forced him up levels before he was ready, and so maybe now that he's 3rd year 20 year old, he has now caught up to level that he's at. If so, good for him. I'm not discounting the possibility. I'm also not discounting the possibility that there is a little bit of a college-level 'Hartman between Kap and Zucc' thing going on.

Every CHLer "plays against teenagers" and low and behold, NHLers still come from that league. It's weird to see shots like that taken against that league. It's obviously a balance, but there's real value to having the puck on your stick, and not playing catchup for 15-20 minutes a night.

 

[BagHead]

You’re looking for linear production from a clear project pick. He’s the antithesis of Heidt. Heidt has played against teenagers for 4 years now, and Stramel decided to play against men when he should’ve been a HS senior. Now, last year was obviously a disaster. Things looked bleak, but the size and smarts and defensive conscientiousness was still visible.

But look at him now, a disruptive force playing 1C on the best team in the country and still only scratching the surface.

Never reached PPG at Rosemount? He was 15 years old for crying out loud. A freaking freshman. Tough crowd.

I don’t think it was a great pick, especially with GP on the board but man, I agree with DGB that the analysis from Wild fans has been way out of touch.

Should I have said the USNTDP instead? You can pick your year and program and that fact doesn't change. I like him and I like his tools, but you're acting as though there was some great offensive history we could have fallen back on to form an opinion, and it just doesn't exist. It wasn't crazy for people to rank him low when he had that history and also declined at Wisconsin.

I don't mind you being excited about him and blowing your horn for him, in fact I encourage you to, but please don't pretend I was crazy in ranking lowly a player who had never reached point-per-game status at any level and had regressed year-over-year. That's just about the least crazy thing I did last year. Ask @Wabit , he can testify to it.

 

[MNRube]

I think you have a pretty generous definition of "disruptive force".

I'm also not discounting the possibility that there is a little bit of a college-level 'Hartman between Kap and Zucc' thing going on.

come on. Hartman never was a defensive player, nor did he provide a genuine physical presence or any pace. This analysis is just unnecessarily stingy.

Do you really think guys like Healey or Bankier will be better NHLers?

 

[Digitalbooya]

I'm also not discounting the possibility that there is a little bit of a college-level 'Hartman between Kap and Zucc' thing going on.

I’d love for you to elaborate on this.

 

[P10p]

Don't understand the whole gotcha shtick with stramel. This is the first year he has shown a pulse for us.

Can't blame people for being down on him. I was always hopeful but I'm not going to take some kind of victory lap pot shots at people.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Don't understand the whole gotcha shtick with stramel. This is the first year he has shown a pulse for us.

Can't blame people for being down on him. I was always hopeful but I'm not going to take some kind of victory lap pot shots at people.

People have been taking pot shots the other way for over a year since he was drafted. It was so bad, I couldn’t say anything positive about him without 2-3 posters coming in and shit talking.

When the pendulum swings, shit talkers deserve to get shit talked.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

come on. Hartman never was a defensive player, nor did he provide a genuine physical presence or any pace. This analysis is just unnecessarily stingy.

Do you really think guys like Healey or Bankier will be better NHLers?

Is it now generally accepted that Stramel is a defensive player and/or provides pace? Honestly asking.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

People have been taking pot shots the other way for over a year since he was drafted. It was so bad, I couldn’t say anything positive about him without 2-3 posters coming in and shit talking.

When the pendulum swings, shit talkers deserve to get shit talked.

Oh the memories of somebody being upset for an entire summer over other people thinking that Faber might be good.

 

[MNRube]

Don't understand the whole gotcha shtick with stramel. This is the first year he has shown a pulse for us.

Can't blame people for being down on him. I was always hopeful but I'm not going to take some kind of victory lap pot shots at people.

It’s not a gotcha, it’s about re-framing how we evaluate him. He was a project pick

Is it now generally accepted that Stramel is a defensive player and/or provides pace? Honestly asking.

it should be. He’s mobile, long and plays a conservative game. Also wins draws and is a RHS.

The frustrating part for me, is that people aren’t accounting for the fact that much of prospect evaluation involves projection. And Stramel is once again showing why so many NHL people have been enamored with his upside.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Oh the memories of somebody being upset for an entire summer over other people thinking that Faber might be good.

My argument was not that he was not a good player. My argument was that Yurov was the better prospect, which can certainly still play out and would be huge given how Faber turned out.

My specific comparison for Faber at the time was Hjalmarsson, a key piece to Chicago winning Cups. If that is calling Faber a bad player or a bad prospect then I don’t know what to tell you.

And I got shit talked endlessly for that.