Where will Ovechkin rank all time when he retires?

[Albatros]

He's a hockey player. At some point he will no longer be.

 

[wetcoast]

The History of Hockey sub-forum had him at #22 in 2018, six years ago.

1) Gretzky
2) Howe
3) Orr
4) Lemieux
5) Hull
6) Beliveau
7) Roy
8) Harvey
9) Richard
10) Bourque
11) Morenz
12) Crosby
13) Hasek
14) Shore
15) Lidstrom
16) Jagr
17) Kelly
18) Potvin
19) Plante
20) Nighbor
21) Messier
22) Ovechkin

So let's look at the players he's surpassed:

21) Messier
20) Nighbor
19) Plante
18) Potvin
17) Kelly

I think most would agree that he's passed them, putting him at 17th all time.

Now it gets harder. Is he better than:

16) Jagr
15) Lidstrom
14) Shore
13) Hasek
12) Crosby
11) Morenz
10) Bourque
9) Richard
8) Harvey
7) Roy
6) Beliveau
5) Hull

You also have to throw McDavid in the mix as well, who many project to be #5, supplanting Hull.

So how far down this list do you place Ovechkin? Higher than Jagr? Lidstrom?

Crosby has no doubt moved up the list himself, many have him also fighting for that #5 spot. Does Ovechkin join him in leapfrogging Hasek? Morenz? Bourque? Richard?

I think it's not as easy as it looks to just unilaterally place him in the top 10. I'm not against the idea, but you'll need to explain who he supplants.

For me it's easier to do with forwards than with Dmen as I'm pretty sure I'd take the careers and impact of guys like Bourque, Lidstrom and even Potvin ahead of Ovi

For forwards he is in the top 10, voted top 15 in the OP's question.

 

[Incognito]

Outside top 100

This thread is about Ovechkin, not Malkin.

 

[Golden_Jet]

He's a hockey player. At some point he will no longer be.

So like every hockey player.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I have a hard time putting him above Hull. He never did anything to surpass him. Hull led the league in goals 7 times, so 2 shy of OV, but Hull led the league in points 3 times, so 2 more times than OV. Their careers are identical, except I just think Hull maintained his absolute peak for longer than OV.

 

[Fatass]

For me it's easier to do with forwards than with Dmen as I'm pretty sure I'd take the careers and impact of guys like Bourque, Lidstrom and even Potvin ahead of Ovi

For forwards he is in the top 10, voted top 15 in the OP's question.

Good point about separating by position. Taking out goalies and D and OV gets closer to the top 10, that’s for sure.
Gretzky
Howe
Mario
Belliveau
Crosby
Bobby Hull
Jagr
Rocket
Morenz
McDavid
Pretty much opinion where OV (or any player) ranks when comparing across generations.

Maybe a more interesting question is if OV could have been successful, at his weight, in old time hockey with crap skates on soft ice and 2x4s for sticks?
I’d say he’d score like Espo. But struggle, like Espo, with the skating because of his weight.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Good point about separating by position. Taking out goalies and D and OV gets closer to the top 10, that’s for sure.
Gretzky
Howe
Mario
Belliveau
Crosby
Bobby Hull
Jagr
Rocket
Morenz
McDavid
Pretty much opinion where OV (or any player) ranks when comparing across generations.

Maybe a more interesting question is if OV could have been successful, at his weight, in old time hockey with crap skates on soft ice and 2x4s for sticks?
I’d say he’d score like Espo. But struggle, like Espo, with the skating because of his weight.

I will never understand the love Beliveau gets, in my opinion he doesn't deserve to be on any all time list that Lafleur isn't on. Lafleur was a better player at his peak than Beliveau.

 

[wetcoast]

I will never understand the love Beliveau gets, in my opinion he doesn't deserve to be on any all time list that Lafleur isn't on. Lafleur was a better player at his peak than Beliveau.

I never understand this type of thinking for an all time ranking because Lafleur outside of his 6 year epak was very ordinary and if anything he gets ranked too high already as all time was he really individually better than Marcel Dionne?

Not really over the course of their careers ut one guys gets insulated with extreme talent while the other played with very poorly constructed teams.

 

[amnesiac]

Gretz
Orr
Mario
Howe
McDavid (end career)

Crosby
Jagr
Hasek
Hull
Ovi

Beliveau
Richard
Harvey
Bourque
Morenz

 

[Fatass]

I will never understand the love Beliveau gets, in my opinion he doesn't deserve to be on any all time list that Lafleur isn't on. Lafleur was a better player at his peak than Beliveau.

Sure, Lafleur was a true great. He’s (imo) ahead of OV too.

 

[Roshi]

Brett Hull lags behind his dad Bobby on all time lists.

Sure. No arguments there. I also didnt compare Ovies career for Brett. The improved Brett Hull version was the ”washed up” Ovechkin version.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I’m on board with Ovie as the “greatest goalscorer” and it feels wrong not to have that player in the top 10. But there are some very real arguments against him being ranked that high.

I think the right approach here is to hold him next to Hull and Richard, and rank him relative to those two, and then decide where that trio belongs next to the whole group.

 

[Fatass]

Sure. No arguments there. I also didnt compare Ovies career for Brett. The improved Brett Hull version was the ”washed up” Ovechkin version.

The “improved” Brett Hull scored 86 goals one year.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

I think it would be very difficult to make a list of the top 15 players all-time and exclude the top goal scorer in the history of the NHL (assuming he breaks it).

Honestly, if he breaks it he will probably routinely be ranked in the top 10. Top 15 at absolute worst, even if he doesn't break it. Closer to 10 than 15. Anyone putting him outside the top 15 is delusional.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I think it would be very difficult to make a list of the top 15 players all-time and exclude the top goal scorer in the history of the NHL (assuming he breaks it).

Honestly, if he breaks it he will probably routinely be ranked in the top 10. Top 15 at absolute worst, even if he doesn't break it. Closer to 10 than 15. Anyone putting him outside the top 15 is delusional.

I think this is flawed thinking. OV likely gets out compiled soon after he retires as scoring continues to tick up. His claim to fame of Greatest Goalscorer is very flawed. It should be based on the 9 Rockets.

Bobby Hull has 913 goals if you count WHA btw. I think its still fair to say he or Mario are better all time great scorers.

 

[Kupo]

171.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

top 10

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Top 15. Could be lower in a decade if Matthews gets close to the goal record as well.

 

[HFpapi]

Exactly 10th for me.

1) Gretzky
2) Lemieux
3) Orr
4) Howe
5) McDavid
6) Crosby
7) Hull
8) Hasek
9) Beliveau
10) Ovechkin

I have Jagr 11th but on a given day you can talk me into him being top 10 too.

The top 6 are the only ones I'm bullish about, I think Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe, McDavid, and Crosby are clearly the best 6 players to ever play.

From 7 to about 15 I think it gets pretty interchangeable with guys like Roy, Richard, Bourque, Lidstrom, Lafleur, Harvey also in the mix.

 

[Letsdothis]

Are you trying to sell jerseys and seats for regular season games or to win Cups. For the former, you want Ovechkin. For the latter, you are better off with guys like Bergeron, Kopitar, Barkov etc.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Are you trying to sell jerseys and seats for regular season games or to win Cups. For the former, you want Ovechkin. For the latter, you are better off with guys like Bergeron, Kopitar, Barkov etc.

None of those, trying to pick all time greats

 

[bobbyking]

The History of Hockey sub-forum had him at #22 in 2018, six years ago.

1) Gretzky
2) Howe
3) Orr
4) Lemieux
5) Hull
6) Beliveau
7) Roy
8) Harvey
9) Richard
10) Bourque
11) Morenz
12) Crosby
13) Hasek
14) Shore
15) Lidstrom
16) Jagr
17) Kelly
18) Potvin
19) Plante
20) Nighbor
21) Messier
22) Ovechkin

So let's look at the players he's surpassed:

21) Messier
20) Nighbor
19) Plante
18) Potvin
17) Kelly

I think most would agree that he's passed them, putting him at 17th all time.

Now it gets harder. Is he better than:

16) Jagr
15) Lidstrom
14) Shore
13) Hasek
12) Crosby
11) Morenz
10) Bourque
9) Richard
8) Harvey
7) Roy
6) Beliveau
5) Hull

You also have to throw McDavid in the mix as well, who many project to be #5, supplanting Hull.

So how far down this list do you place Ovechkin? Higher than Jagr? Lidstrom?

Crosby has no doubt moved up the list himself, many have him also fighting for that #5 spot. Does Ovechkin join him in leapfrogging Hasek? Morenz? Bourque? Richard?

I think it's not as easy as it looks to just unilaterally place him in the top 10. I'm not against the idea, but you'll need to explain who he supplants.

putting him behind beliveau and hull especially is laughable

 

[ViD]

I’m on board with Ovie as the “greatest goalscorer” and it feels wrong not to have that player in the top 10. But there are some very real arguments against him being ranked that high.

I think the right approach here is to hold him next to Hull and Richard, and rank him relative to those two, and then decide where that trio belongs next to the whole group.

What arguments ? He’s got one of the most impressive hardware collection to go along with his goal record

Are you trying to sell jerseys and seats for regular season games or to win Cups. For the former, you want Ovechkin. For the latter, you are better off with guys like Bergeron, Kopitar, Barkov etc.

Complete nonsense, as those guys are just pieces of excellent teams

 

[jigglysquishy]

13th

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Beliveau
6. Harvey
7. Crosby
8. McDavid
9. Hull
10. Bourque
11. Hasek
12. Jagr
13. Ovechkin

 

[tarheelhockey]

What arguments ? He’s got one of the most impressive hardware collection to go along with his goal record

Mainly that he’s relatively niche as a goal scoring winger, when compared to do-it-all guys like Beliveau or Bourque. And while his peak was at an all-time level, nobody is confusing him with Gretzky or Lemieux. Most of us don’t even rate him above his contemporaries Crosby or McDavid, who will both belong in the top 10 soon.

Again to me the sensible thing is to rate him beside other goal-scoring wingers (Hull, Richard) and go from there. At least one of those guys will be on most people’s top 10. The question is whether that’s Ovechkin or one of the others.