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Where is Rantanen?

A lot of vet coaches swear for cup runs you need your depth to carry you early because it takes time for the stars to adjust to the level of checking and they carry you the deeper you go. Heard this every year as a Leafs fan.

Not shocked if he wakes up mid way through round 2
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Dude is trending towards a Hall of Fame career, kind of weird the amount of defamatory statements he's enduring.
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I like Rantanen but I think the criticisms have been 100% warranted.

5 years in a row he was averaging a ~100-110 point pace over 82 games in Colorado.

Playoffs? Even better. 6 straights years in Colorado he was averaging above a point per game, and even more, averaging above a 96 point pace over 82 games (including 5 straight years of 100+ point pace).

So - exceptionally consistent, and high performer, and even moreso in playoffs. Before trade.

In Carolina: 38 point pace over 82 games
In Dallas rgeular season: 74 point pace over 82 games.
In playoffs - before yesterday had only 1 point in 4 games. Big game yesterday, but still below PPG.

I know the sample size is obviously smaller so far in Carolina and Dallas - but there's no question his production has been significantly down since leaving Colorado.
 
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bobholly39 said:
I like Rantanen but I think the criticisms have been 100% warranted.

5 years in a row he was averaging a ~100-110 point pace over 82 games in Colorado.

Playoffs? Even better. 6 straights years in Colorado he was averaging above a point per game, and even more, averaging above a 96 point pace over 82 games (including 5 straight years of 100+ point pace).

So - exceptionally consistent, and high performer, and even moreso in playoffs. Before trade.

In Carolina: 38 point pace over 82 games
In Dallas rgeular season: 74 point pace over 82 games.
In playoffs - before yesterday had only 1 point in 4 games. Big game yesterday, but still below PPG.

I know the sample size is obviously smaller so far in Carolina and Dallas - but there's no question his production has been significantly down since leaving Colorado.
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No one in Dallas is really worried about his play this season.

He's been our best skater in this playoff series (arguably best player, but Oettinger probably takes that for now). He's meshed very well with the team so far and genuinely seems happy to be a Star.

There are very obvious and reasonable causes for the production decrease this year. He's still looked very good despite all of that. I think he just needs some time to settle in and build some chemistry with his new teammates. If his production decrease continues into next season and beyond, then we can start to worry.
 
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I have less than zero concern over Rantanen in Dallas.

He got to 18 pts in 20 games in a brand new environment on the team that, more than any system in the league, prioritizes depth over having a "top line". And the team was playing without their best player who significantly changes how effective they are.

Would not be surprised one bit if he's pushing 100+ points next year with Dallas after their depth takes a bit of a hit and they have to rely on a handful of players more frequently. He's averaging about 3:30 less TOI in Dallas than in Colorado and his OZone starts are down 20% (DeBoer rolls his top-3 lines completely evenly).

Additionally, even though he hasn't been getting on the scoresheet as frequently as people would like, he's so obviously having a great impact on the game.
 
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LT said:
No one in Dallas is really worried about his play this season.

He's been our best skater in this playoff series (arguably best player, but Oettinger probably takes that for now). He's meshed very well with the team so far and genuinely seems happy to be a Star.

There are very obvious and reasonable causes for the production decrease this year. He's still looked very good despite all of that. I think he just needs some time to settle in and build some chemistry with his new teammates. If his production decrease continues into next season and beyond, then we can start to worry.
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I think the biggest need and difference maker will be mental rest

2 trades mid season, especially the 1st one torn him apart+ the media circus around him during those months
 
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Kojo said:
Lots of players with a better career that aren't in the HOF yet. Not just a few, a lot.
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Rantanen still has back half of his career left and is one of the highest producers in his era. Unless he falls off as people are predicting he's definitely trending HHOF right now. For instance, he has comparable to better "Top 10s" in terms of goal/point finishes than Roenick who just got in.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
Rantanen still has back half of his career left and is one of the highest producers in his era. Unless he falls off as people are predicting he's definitely trending HHOF right now. For instance, he has comparable to better "Top 10s" in terms of goal/point finishes than Roenick who just got in.
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I'm not predicting he's going to fall off a cliff, but as of now he isn't HOF worthy imo.
 
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bobholly39 said:
but there's no question his production has been significantly down since leaving Colorado.
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Can we stop repeating this. Like yeah, everyone can see the stats. And its not like they arent understandable. New teammates, new situations, new city...why would someone expect for someone in that situation to continue from where he left off? Why would those few games be relevant here?

Kojo said:
Lots of players with a better career that aren't in the HOF yet. Not just a few, a lot.
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Like who?
 
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bobholly39 said:
I like Rantanen but I think the criticisms have been 100% warranted.

5 years in a row he was averaging a ~100-110 point pace over 82 games in Colorado.

Playoffs? Even better. 6 straights years in Colorado he was averaging above a point per game, and even more, averaging above a 96 point pace over 82 games (including 5 straight years of 100+ point pace).

So - exceptionally consistent, and high performer, and even moreso in playoffs. Before trade.

In Carolina: 38 point pace over 82 games
In Dallas rgeular season: 74 point pace over 82 games.
In playoffs - before yesterday had only 1 point in 4 games. Big game yesterday, but still below PPG.

I know the sample size is obviously smaller so far in Carolina and Dallas - but there's no question his production has been significantly down since leaving Colorado.
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The thing is his points per minutes played is pretty much same in Dallas than it was in Colorado.

How can you expect same points totals from him now than before when he plays 4 minutes Less every night, gets less offensive zone starts, and doesnt play with 2 top 5 players in the league every shift? Not to mention that only Dallas defender that has a good transition game has been out of the lineup all the time Rants has been in Dallas.

Its not realistic to expect him to keep same 50+60 pace when you take those factors into consideration. I would say rn ppg pace is equal to his 110 point pace in Colorado and when Dallas faces Cap problems and become more top heavy, maybe 90-95 points is realistic
 
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Kojo said:
I was just commenting about if he would get in the HOF, he's a fantastic player but he needs like 400 more points to get in. Maybe more.
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Yeah I got that and I was asking about who you think had a better career and didn't get into HOF?

This isn't me arguing about Rantanen and HOF but I'm genuinely interested to know is there really a player who won the Stanley Cup and was a top 5 ppg producer in playoffs and regular season during the span of five seasons and didnt get into HOF?

Top 20 ppg (playoffs and regular season) producers in 2020s:

nhltop_20ppg.jpg
 
jalapenoWithAnH said:
Yeah I got that and I was asking about who you think had a better career and didn't get into HOF?

This isn't me arguing about Rantanen and HOF but I'm genuinely interested to know is there really a player who won the Stanley Cup and was a top 5 ppg producer in playoffs and regular season during the span of five seasons?

Top 20 ppg (playoffs and regular season) producers in 2020s:

View attachment 1025669
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Those stats look recent, do you know that there was hockey before this? I know what you're trying to do.
 
Kojo said:
You do your own research, You don't know this? I could name ten right off the bat.

There's also a few too many who don't deserve to be in the HOF.
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Instead of writing 30 words of nothing you could have named those ten players “out of your head”.
Maybe there is not so much in it?
 
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