Speculation: WHERE IN THE WORLD IS JESSE PULJUJARVI?

[BusinessGoose]

Where? Back down.

Jesse yelling get me off this ride

 

[spfan]

And mutual contract termination. He was a solid player. Should've always been in the bottom 6.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Lol... Hopefully he gets more time somewhere else

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's going to Europe because no team in the NHL thinks he's worth a NHL spot.

 

[Kaptah]

Good day for Puljujärvi. f*** you Mike Sullivan.

 

[Ulf5]

Good day for Puljujärvi. f*** you Mike Sullivan.

Probably not. There might be a slim chance an NHL claims him. If someone claims him now, they're free and clear to send him to the AHL. Before he would've had to been offered back to the Pens first.
But most likely he's off to Europe for a whole lot less money and fame.

 

[Kaptah]

As the season has gone on, we have worked with Jesse and his representative Markus Lehto to try and ensure that his hard work returning from serious injury was not lost and to try and find him greater opportunity.

“Over the last week, those discussions have led to us granting Jesse his request for contract termination so he may explore opportunities with other organizations around the world. In the end, we felt that was the fair thing to do given the work Jesse has put in to getting himself back to this level.”

 

[Khelandros]

As the season has gone on, we have worked with Jesse and his representative Markus Lehto to try and ensure that his hard work returning from serious injury was not lost and to try and find him greater opportunity.

“Over the last week, those discussions have led to us granting Jesse his request for contract termination so he may explore opportunities with other organizations around the world. In the end, we felt that was the fair thing to do given the work Jesse has put in to getting himself back to this level.”

"As the season has gone on, Mike has made it adamantly clear that he will not work with Jesse. Jesse is a skilled player and Mike was drafted in the 4th round and never would have made the NHL expect for the fantastic timing of the Expansion San Jose Sharks needing warm bodies to make an opening night roster.

Over the last week, those discussions have led to us granting Jesse his request for contract termination so he may explore opportunities with other organizations that value skill and not just PK ability. In the end, we felt that was the fair thing to do given the work Jesse has put in to getting himself back to this level, and Mike Sullivan being Mike Sullivan.”

 

[Whyme]

This was a fair thing to do, but boy I feel like there's something I just don't get. Puljujarvi needs to be let to do his thing as long as he does well enough. Things started nicely and he was also statistically so much above (points/60 over three times higher, plusminus close to zero compared to numbers around -15) some other players he fought with for a roster place. He could've been a useful bottom 6 piece, but at least he gets to try elsewhere now.

He may end up to Switzerland, which pays the highest salaries in Europe, but his FEL team is the richest in Finland and is reported to pay 400 000 euros to their goalie next season. If Puljujarvi gets a similar amount and you factor in how much of the NHL salary is withheld, the managers part, taxes etc. the actual difference may be 150-200 000 per year and much less for the end of the season. Even less if he makes some commercials and utilizises the FEL's fund system to pay less taxes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This was a fair thing to do, but boy I feel like there's something I just don't get. Puljujarvi needs to be let to do his thing as long as he does well enough. Things started nicely and he was also statistically so much above (points/60 over three times higher, plusminus close to zero compared to numbers around -15) some other players he fought with for a roster place. He could've been a useful bottom 6 piece, but at least he gets to try elsewhere now.

He may end up to Switzerland, which pays the highest salaries in Europe, but his FEL team is the richest in Finland and is reported to pay 400 000 euros to their goalie next season. If Puljujarvi gets a similar amount and you factor in how much of the NHL salary is withheld, the managers part, taxes etc. the actual difference may be 150-200 000 per year and much less for the end of the season. Even less if he makes some commercials and utilizises the FEL's fund system to pay less taxes.

Because NHL teams don't do this unless you're extremely talented, which Puljujarvi isn't.

Puljujarvi's issues are written up pretty well here:

Whether that's an overall mentality with Puljujarvi that never registered, or just a critical lack of ability to think the game and see the ice on the move...he repeatedly showed to be the same player he always was, with no indication that he was developing any of that aspect to his game that would allow him to "adjust his game" to be effective in that sort of role. He's leaving the league looking like and older, more broken down version of the same player he was when he was a teenager in Finland. Trying to play a "superstar game" on instinct, without the superstar skillset or instincts.

Puljujarvi isn't sticking in the NHL because he's not good enough to play like he has over his career and he has never been able to adapt his game to stick in the NHL as a depth guy. To be in the NHL, he either needs to be consistently productive or adapt to offer some sort of versatility that coaches want out of bottom-6 guys. He didn't do either of those things, hence why he's going back to Europe and probably not getting another NHL chance.

I noted earlier in the year that his play style reminded me a lot of Staal, a big guy who uses his size to dominate possession and just control play with the puck on his stick. The issue is that he's not talented enough to consistently produce with that play style. And if he's not producing, what exactly is he doing for you? He's leaving the NHL with an average of 12 goals per 82 games.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean I'd take what Pulju brings offensively over Noel Acciari and Matt Nieto.

Pking is an extremely overrated skill and I'm firmly of the belief that anyone can be taught to do it. The Pens didn't even try with Jesse which is stupid because the offense he brings at 5v5 is superior to many of the guys they're playing. Sullivan would rather play absolute plugs just because they play the way he wants.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I mean I'd take what Pulju brings offensively over Noel Acciari and Matt Nieto.

Pking is an extremely overrated skill and I'm firmly of the belief that anyone can be taught to do it. The Pens didn't even try with Jesse which is stupid because the offense he brings at 5v5 is superior to many of the guys they're playing. Sullivan would rather play absolute plugs just because they play the way he wants.

Which would be fine, if the end result was anything but infuriating to watch

Teams should have players that a coach can mesh with

... But meshing with crap is a bad thing

 

[Pancakes]

Which would be fine, if the end result was anything but infuriating to watch

Teams should have players that a coach can mesh with

... But meshing with crap is a bad thing

Coaches should be able to mold players into their system. Sullivan barely even tried with Jesse.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean I'd take what Pulju brings offensively over Noel Acciari and Matt Nieto.

Pking is an extremely overrated skill and I'm firmly of the belief that anyone can be taught to do it. The Pens didn't even try with Jesse which is stupid because the offense he brings at 5v5 is superior to many of the guys they're playing. Sullivan would rather play absolute plugs just because they play the way he wants.

I mean, if that was the case, why did literally none of Puljujarvi's coaches try to convert him into a PKer to improve his NHL longetivity?

Sullivan wasn't the only coach he had.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Coaches should be able to mold players into their system. Sullivan barely even tried with Jesse.

Which is why, when you're in one of probably sixty weekly meetings, you tell your GM "hey don't bother spending even as little as a mil on that pool guy, it's not what I need"

We continue to throw good money after bad. Three GMs in a row getting the wrong fits.... What the hell is the right fit and why isn't it happening?

 

[Pancakes]

I mean, if that was the case, why did literally none of Puljujarvi's coaches try to convert him into a PKer to improve his NHL longetivity?

Sullivan wasn't the only coach he had.

Because coaches are impatient and want immediate results. The NHL isn't a developmental league.

The thing is, the Penguins suck. They knew they were going to suck coming into the year. Yet they're still farcically treating this season like they have a chance at a playoff spot. They should have said hey, we suck, we know we're going to suck, let's use this as an opportunity to give guys looks that we normally wouldn't. Let's see if we can develop players that might be able to help us.

But nope it's let's just play scrub lords that couldn't score a 5v5 goal if their lives depended on it just because they're able to do the easiest thing in the NHL to do (pk).

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because coaches are impatient and want immediate results. The NHL isn't a developmental league.

The thing is, the Penguins suck. They knew they were going to suck coming into the year. Yet they're still farcically treating this season like they have a chance at a playoff spot. They should have said hey, we suck, we know we're going to suck, let's use this as an opportunity to give guys looks that we normally wouldn't. Let's see if we can develop players that might be able to help us.

But nope it's let's just play scrub lords that couldn't score a 5v5 goal if their lives depended on it just because they're able to do the easiest thing in the NHL to do (pk).

But if it was that easy to learn, why didn't Puljujarvi spend a significant amount of time adapting his game to get him to stick in the NHL then?

Coaches weren't trying to develop that in Puljujarvi's game and Puljujarvi seemingly wasn't trying to improve that area of his game. And now Puljujarvi is out of the league because no one wants him in a bottom-6 spot. It's either all NHL teams and Puljujarvi are wrong or it's not as simple as "anyone can kill penalties and the Penguins couldn't develop Puljujarvi".

The whole "they should try to develop players that might be able to help them" idea would work if Puljujarvi wasn't 27 already. If Puljujarvi was 24, I'd understand that argument significantly more. But Puljujarvi plays the same exact way he did a decade ago when he was drafted and has seemingly not shown any desire/ability to adapt his game to fit in a NHL roster's bottom-6.

 

[Whyme]

Because NHL teams don't do this unless you're extremely talented, which Puljujarvi isn't.

Puljujarvi's issues are written up pretty well here:



Puljujarvi isn't sticking in the NHL because he's not good enough to play like he has over his career and he has never been able to adapt his game to stick in the NHL as a depth guy. To be in the NHL, he either needs to be consistently productive or adapt to offer some sort of versatility that coaches want out of bottom-6 guys. He didn't do either of those things, hence why he's going back to Europe and probably not getting another NHL chance.

I noted earlier in the year that his play style reminded me a lot of Staal, a big guy who uses his size to dominate possession and just control play with the puck on his stick. The issue is that he's not talented enough to consistently produce with that play style. And if he's not producing, what exactly is he doing for you? He's leaving the NHL with an average of 12 goals per 82 games.

I will not argue with eye tests, but statistically one could say he deserved a place over some others. Puljujarvi is -1 while e.g. Acciari is -17 and DOC was -14 when he was traded and his points/60 was way higher too. Usually 2-3 times higher or more.

Puljujarvi did have some good stretches in the Oilers, the best being a period of 1,5 seasons when his goals/60 was the 2nd best of the team over that time frame. His problems were inconsistency (long non productive stretches) and health. At the time he wasn't good enough to produce in the bottom 6, but I'd like to add that nobody else produced anything there at that time in the Oilers. That included players like Nuge, Strome, Lucic, Camallieri, Spooner etc. I understand this is not something that people pay attention to, but I think it's worth mentioning.

Anyway, Puljujarvi is moving on and I'm glad they managed to settle this. Before I go I have to say I think the conversations and atmosphere in your section have been good. Thank you and I wish you guys all the best!

 

[Coastal Kev]

JP was railroaded. First games of the season, he was clearly their best forward. Oh well, sully is puke regurgitated

 

[Pancakes]

But if it was that easy to learn, why didn't Puljujarvi spend a significant amount of time adapting his game to get him to stick in the NHL then?

Coaches weren't trying to develop that in Puljujarvi's game and Puljujarvi seemingly wasn't trying to improve that area of his game. And now Puljujarvi is out of the league because no one wants him in a bottom-6 spot. It's either all NHL teams and Puljujarvi are wrong or it's not as simple as "anyone can kill penalties and the Penguins couldn't develop Puljujarvi".

The whole "they should try to develop players that might be able to help them" idea would work if Puljujarvi wasn't 27 already. If Puljujarvi was 24, I'd understand that argument significantly more. But Puljujarvi plays the same exact way he did a decade ago when he was drafted and has seemingly not shown any desire/ability to adapt his game to fit in a NHL roster's bottom-6.

I think it is that simple tbh and I think NHL teams are just set in their ways. I genuinely think any forward that is capable of playing in the NHL is capable of learning to kill penalties. If it took any skill at all teams wouldn't have an endless parade of Acciaris and Nietos doing it.

The other thing is even ignoring the pking aspect Puljujarvi is already a far more productive 5v5 player than Nieto and Acciari are. He has the same amount of points as Acciari despite playing in less than half of the games that Acciari has.

Like even if we take the premise that Jesse can't pk and can't learn it, isn't he still worth playing in the lineup just because of his 5v5 scoring especially given the Pens' well known offensive issues at 5v5? Surely they could find another forward to replace the pking contributions that Nieto or Acciari or *insert guy who can't put a puck in the ocean at 5v5 here*. The Pens don't have a shortage of options to try there. What they are struggling with is scoring goals.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it is that simple tbh and I think NHL teams are just set in their ways. I genuinely think any forward that is capable of playing in the NHL is capable of learning to kill penalties. If it took any skill at all teams wouldn't have an endless parade of Acciaris and Nietos doing it.

The other thing is even ignoring the pking aspect Puljujarvi is already a far more productive 5v5 player than Nieto and Acciari are. He has the same amount of points as Acciari despite playing in less than half of the games that Acciari has.

Like even if we take the premise that Jesse can't pk and can't learn it, isn't he still worth playing in the lineup just because of his 5v5 scoring especially given the Pens' well known offensive issues at 5v5? Surely they could find another forward to replace the pking contributions that Nieto or Acciari or *insert guy who can't put a puck in the ocean at 5v5 here*. The Pens don't have a shortage of options to try there. What they are struggling with is scoring goals.

Was he actually that good of a 5v5 scorer? He averaged 12 goals per 82 games in his career and had 6 goals in 48 games with the Penguins. He scored 3 goals in 22 games last year and had 3 goals in 26 games this year.

Puljujarvi really had 2 paths to make it as a bottom-6 guy: produce enough to stick in the lineup or adapt his game to fit more of what teams look for in a bottom-6 guy. I think most teams want to have at least 1 or 2 guys who primarily offer production, and Sullivan is no different. Tomasino and Beauvillier have been the 2 main guys that have filled that role with the Penguins this year. But Puljujarvi just didn't do either of those, he both wasn't productive enough and didn't diversify his game enough for coaches to rely on him.

That's actually something really unique about Tomasino that makes me think he'll stick as a 3rd liner going forward, whether it be with the Penguins or someone else. Tomasino is a downright great powerplay player and offers that sort of usefulness even if he's not producing at 5v5.

 

[Jumptheshark]

As an Oiler fan, we loved the kid and his personality.

 

[Pancakes]

Was he actually that good of a 5v5 scorer? He averaged 12 goals per 82 games in his career and had 6 goals in 48 games with the Penguins. He scored 3 goals in 22 games last year and had 3 goals in 26 games this year.

He's unquestionably a better 5v5 scorer than several of the players the Pens opted to keep over him.

The question is could the Pens replace the pk contributions of a Nieto or an Acciari if they scratched one of them to play Puljujarvi. Mike Sullivan thinks no. I think Beauvillier or Hayes could probably take on those minutes and do fine with them.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Multiple things can be true:
- Jesse Puljujarvi is a likeable guy with some intriguing physical skills
- He seems to be a good teammate who says the right things.
- He doesn't seem to have more than an average hockey IQ
- His production has never been prolific enough or consistent enough for him to get the leeway star players get with their games.
- Multiple coaches have soured on him for either his inability or his unwillingness to diversify his game

I think you can teach players the basics of playing on the PK. Their success in that role comes down to two things - consistently being positioned properly and having the mindset that being on the PK is a critical role, to the point of being willing to block shots and sacrifice their bodies while potentially getting less opportunities to score.

I'll be honest - I think Puljujarvi has some offensive talent, but I don't think he ever knows where he's supposed to be on the ice. His good defensive/possession stats cover for his poor play in his own zone. Right or wrong, that's going to piss off coaches like Sullivan and Brind'amour. I'm sure the hip issues played a role in Puljujarvi's play in Carolina, but Brind'amour and Waddell (at the time) could have easily put him on LTIR and let him get healthy if they liked him.

The reality is some guys just don't fit in the NHL for multiple reasons.

 

[Pancakes]

I'll be honest - I think Puljujarvi has some offensive talent, but I don't think he ever knows where he's supposed to be on the ice. His good defensive/possession stats cover for his poor play in his own zone. Right or wrong, that's going to piss off coaches like Sullivan and Brind'amour. I'm sure the hip issues played a role in Puljujarvi's play in Carolina, but Brind'amour and Waddell (at the time) could have easily put him on LTIR and let him get healthy if they liked him.

The reality is some guys just don't fit in the NHL for multiple reasons.

I do remember a few Sullivan comments about Puljujarvi needing to get the little details of the system right or whatever but I always found those comments by Sullivan hilarious because 90% of the Pens roster routinely make system mistakes