Where does Ovechkin's Aged 35-39 Seasons rank specifically all time for players in that age range?

[WarriorofTime]

Mods feel free to merge into one of the other dozen Ovechkin History threads if appropriate.

Asking specifically for this age range, not necessarily every post-35 season (i.e., no season in the 40s included). It's a pretty specific question granted, but chosen because (topically) it's Ovechkin age 39 season and (generally) it reflects a period when you expect players to rapidly decline and potentially elect to retire but where the extent to which they keep playing doesn't feel like they are doing so merely for the sake of doing so. So an interesting barometer of longevity so to speak.

For 2020-21 through 2024-25 Ovechkin has 331 GP, 184 Goals (cumulative rank of 7th in NHL), 335 points (cumulative rank of 31st in NHL). 1.012 PPG (cumulative rank of 25th in NHL with players with a minimum of 100 GP in that time period) with a few games left in the 2024-25 season as of today), -20

"Feels" like 2nd to Howe seems about right. Crosby could (likely will?) pass depending on how his next two seasons go.

 

[jigglysquishy]

While I think Howe is first, it's not too far ahead of Lidstrom. 3 Norrises in that age frame and being widely considered the best defenseman in the world.

Some of it will come down to what specific age cutoff you're using. But Lidstrom's run was unreal.

Beliveau had two second place Hart finishes, and two great playoff runs.

Harvey had 3 Norrises.

 

[pnep]

35-39 (2025.04.01)

tinyurl.com

 

[MadLuke]

Some that aged well in that range.

Beliveau was ppg (313 in 314), 8th among people with 90 games or more, most point in the playoff, 5th in the playoff ppg.

Bourque was third among defenseman in points, tie for second in goals, no ice time but took the most shots.

Norris: 2-3-7-7-7

MacInnis went 1-2-7-8-16 for the norris, that era of elite defenseman had good 35-40 performance.

Adam Oates, 8th in the nhl in points, second in assist (98-02), winning 58% of his faceoff, one really nice 1998 playoff run at it.

Alfredsson seem to almost have got better after 27 years old than before, 21th in ppg from 2008 to 2012.

Selanne was 24th in ppg, 18th and 37 in totals goals and points, won a cup with a couple of very nice playoff, it was perfect timing with the lock-out break in 2004 to start his 35-39 window fresh which helped.

All the name that came to mind, seem to have made sense looking at the nice list above...

 

[jigglysquishy]

Looks like Crosby could make a real run at 3rd all time for points 35-39.

 

[MadLuke]

Some very rough attempt to adjust for when they played, this is just the adjusting for the defensive GAA of the teams they faced for every game of the seasons.

full_name	total_games	total_points	total_goals	adj_goals	adj_pts	gpg	ppg
Johnny Bucyk	388	448	183	209.0	510.0	0.54	1.31
Adam Oates	384	361	72	97.0	486.0	0.25	1.27
Martin St. Louis	362	354	124	169.0	480.0	0.47	1.33
Brett Hull	403	345	155	215.0	480.0	0.53	1.19
Gordie Howe	352	371	148	191.0	478.0	0.54	1.36
Jean Ratelle	385	428	149	161.0	462.0	0.42	1.2
Wayne Gretzky	314	351	80	104.0	457.0	0.33	1.45
Mark Messier	352	345	135	173.0	447.0	0.49	1.27
Ray Whitney	385	330	111	148.0	441.0	0.38	1.15
Ron Francis	404	324	108	147.0	438.0	0.36	1.09
Daniel Alfredsson	348	324	125	166.0	430.0	0.48	1.24
Alex Delvecchio	366	331	106	135.0	422.0	0.37	1.15
Nicklas Lidstrom	396	320	64	83.0	415.0	0.21	1.05
Teemu Selanne	307	309	154	201.0	402.0	0.65	1.31
Jean Beliveau	314	313	120	149.0	387.0	0.47	1.23
Ray Bourque	386	289	80	104.0	378.0	0.27	0.98
Joe Thornton	359	284	71	93.0	377.0	0.26	1.05
Al Macinnis	353	269	70	97.0	371.0	0.27	1.05
Joe Pavelski	369	307	121	146.0	370.0	0.4	1.0
Igor Larionov	360	284	65	83.0	367.0	0.23	1.02
Norm Ullman	373	317	108	124.0	364.0	0.33	0.97
Rod Brind'Amour	375	273	101	125.0	340.0	0.33	0.91
Mike Modano	358	253	99	130.0	331.0	0.36	0.93
Mark Recchi	319	255	92	119.0	331.0	0.37	1.04
Doug Gilmour	349	238	69	95.0	326.0	0.27	0.93
Alex Ovechkin	274	272	147	175.0	324.0	0.64	1.18
Joe Sakic	223	239	83	109.0	315.0	0.49	1.41
Jarome Iginla	366	227	109	150.0	313.0	0.41	0.86
Brendan Shanahan	304	242	117	150.0	310.0	0.49	1.02
Patrick Marleau	410	235	114	150.0	310.0	0.37	0.76

Despite the limited game total, Gretzky show up, best ppg for the 250 games or more (when low enough to get Ovechkin that missed good amount of them with covid and everything):

full_name	total_games	total_points	total_goals	adj_goals	adj_pts	gpg	ppg
Wayne Gretzky	314	351	80	104.0	457.0	0.33	1.45
Gordie Howe	352	371	148	191.0	478.0	0.54	1.36
Martin St. Louis	362	354	124	169.0	480.0	0.47	1.33
Johnny Bucyk	388	448	183	209.0	510.0	0.54	1.31
Teemu Selanne	307	309	154	201.0	402.0	0.65	1.31
Mark Messier	352	345	135	173.0	447.0	0.49	1.27
Adam Oates	384	361	72	97.0	486.0	0.25	1.27
Daniel Alfredsson	348	324	125	166.0	430.0	0.48	1.24
Jean Beliveau	314	313	120	149.0	387.0	0.47	1.23
Jean Ratelle	385	428	149	161.0	462.0	0.42	1.2
Brett Hull	403	345	155	215.0	480.0	0.53	1.19
Alex Ovechkin	274	272	147	175.0	324.0	0.64	1.18
Alex Delvecchio	366	331	106	135.0	422.0	0.37	1.15
Ray Whitney	385	330	111	148.0	441.0	0.38	1.15
Ron Francis	404	324	108	147.0	438.0	0.36	1.09
Al Macinnis	353	269	70	97.0	371.0	0.27	1.05
Nicklas Lidstrom	396	320	64	83.0	415.0	0.21	1.05
Joe Thornton	359	284	71	93.0	377.0	0.26	1.05
Mark Recchi	319	255	92	119.0	331.0	0.37	1.04
Igor Larionov	360	284	65	83.0	367.0	0.23	1.02
Brendan Shanahan	304	242	117	150.0	310.0	0.49	1.02

 

[MadLuke]

Messier-Francis obviously, but how well Hull aged can be miss a bit because it was deep in the dpe, still top 10 type of guy goal wise.

Whitney always kind of show up in total numbers type of affair, St-Louis because of the later high profile start was not seen and perceived to be as old as he was while still elite, some of the oldest Art Ross wins and what not. While a training freak, he did had less mileage than others to help him.

 

[Staniowski]

Crosby (who's still in the midst of his late 30s) and Bourque are the first names to come to mind. They both were very consistent and strive to continuously improve their games. Both still world-class players in their late 30s.

Also, both of them were faced with generations after their's that were very, very strong, which made their performances even more evident and impressive.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

How does Ovechkin's season rank all-time among 39 year olds?

Based on an admittedly quick review, I only found four seasons that seem to be better - Al MacInnis (2003), Gordie Howe (1968), Jean Beliveau (1971), and Chris Chelios (2002). Am I missing anyone obvious? Should Ovechkin rank higher than 5th?

Similarly, how about Crosby's age 37 season? Definitely Nicklas Lidstrom (2008) and Jean Beliveau (1969) are ahead. There's little doubt that Mario Lemieux (2003) was "better", but I'm not sure if he was more valuable (67 games of Lemieux vs 80 games of his former protege). There are a bunch that are arguable - Joe Sakic (2007), Patrick Roy and Ed Belfour (both in 2003), or Chris Chelios (2000).

(Off topic but top five seasons by age seems like an interesting idea for a project).

 

[MadLuke]

Bourque 39 years old season (a la HR way to count it) was his first Avs season, played 30 minutes a night in the playoff that year.

In 2002 Oates had a top 10 points finish, did lead the league in Assists, still played big 22 minute a night first line center role with the caps, were 2 solid old player season as well, but Ovechkin scored 44

 

[Staniowski]

Bourque was definitely better than Ovechkin at age 39. He was still excellent at the '98 Olympics just before that as well (bad pick for the shootout, though).

 

[WarriorofTime]

How does Ovechkin's season rank all-time among 39 year olds?

Based on an admittedly quick review, I only found four seasons that seem to be better - Al MacInnis (2003), Gordie Howe (1968), Jean Beliveau (1971), and Chris Chelios (2002). Am I missing anyone obvious? Should Ovechkin rank higher than 5th?

Similarly, how about Crosby's age 37 season? Definitely Nicklas Lidstrom (2008) and Jean Beliveau (1969) are ahead. There's little doubt that Mario Lemieux (2003) was "better", but I'm not sure if he was more valuable (67 games of Lemieux vs 80 games of his former protege). There are a bunch that are arguable - Joe Sakic (2007), Patrick Roy and Ed Belfour (both in 2003), or Chris Chelios (2000).

(Off topic but top five seasons by age seems like an interesting idea for a project).

Quanthockey good for this.

 

[MadLuke]

Quanthockey good for this.

Did not know about that one,

39 years old seasons
QuantHockey Query Explorer, did some useless coding to get them.

 

[maddskkilz]

Mario’s age 35 2000-2001 comeback season is amongst the most impressive age 35 and up seasons ever.

- Comes back from 3 year retirement in the absolute middle of the DPE
- puts up a line of 35g, 41a, 76p in 43 games

- 35 goals at age 35 in 43 games is unbelievable

- GPG: 1st in league at .81. Bure was second at .56

- Assists pg: 1st in league at .95. Oates and Jagr tied for 2nd at .85

- PPG: 1.77 1st in league. Jagr was at 1.49 and Sakic was at 1.44

He is an another stratosphere compared to some of the best seasons from two legends Jagr and Sakic who otherwise dominated the league.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Quanthockey good for this.

Quanthockey is great for providing statistical lists (ie Ovechkin scored the most goals and T-6th most points out of any age 39 season), but I was trying to do a more subjective/holistic ranking. (In other words, how does Ovechkin/Crosby at age 39/37 compare to a top two-way defenseman?) Maybe another project for another time?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Quanthockey is great for providing statistical lists (ie Ovechkin scored the most goals and T-6th most points out of any age 39 season), but I was trying to do a more subjective/holistic ranking. (In other words, how does Ovechkin/Crosby at age 39/37 compare to a top two-way defenseman?) Maybe another project for another time?

I just mean it’s easy to see all the “age 39” seasons in one place. Sort by points, sort by PPG, etc. maybe other places do as well it’s just my go to for stuff like that.

 

[MadLuke]

some other noteworth 39 years old season

The Blues won the vezina Plante-Hall, (hum HR has it 40, quant has him as 39).

When league leading .940 save percentage, 1.96 GAA, 37.6 GSAA
Bower, 7 in Hart, league leading .932, 2.11, 24.4 GSAA

 

[WarriorofTime]

some other noteworth 39 years old season

The Blues won the vezina Plante-Hall, (hum HR has it 40, quant has him as 39).

When league leading .940 save percentage, 1.96 GAA, 37.6 GSAA
Bower, 7 in Hart, league leading .932, 2.11, 24.4 GSAA

Quant does age as of December 31 (the minor/junior hockey way). Hockey Ref does age as of January 31 (which is something derived from baseball reference age at season mid-point). I think the December 31 way is "better" because it's more commonly used in hockey (and the only difference anyways is it bumps up January birthdays). The other would be age as of September 15 which is the draft eligibility and comes up in other places in the CBA.