Where do the Leafs go?

[Praetorian Caps]

 

[Kennerback]

If the Leafs tear the whole structure down, they’re not making the playoffs. They just can’t go bulldozer everything

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This off season is a critical one for the Leafs.
Not sure I’d want the same GM who traded first round picks for Laughton and Carlo in charge of any retool/rebuild though. I’d get rid of Treleving and Shanahan and get a top GM to navigate this critical off season.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Do you think maybe as part of rebuilding they would trade players for 1sts?

For the 2025 draft eleven 1st round DPs have been traded, and none of them in the top 15. You can find guys in the 2nd half of the round, but it's definitely a lower probability. Outside of Debrincat to OTT I'm struggling to find examples of rebuilding hockey deals where a quality youngish player went for close to full value.

And the guys you're talking about potentially trading (Matthews, Nylander, Reilly) all have NMC's that you can't just assume they'll waive. See Mich Marner.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

If the Leafs tear the whole structure down, they’re not making the playoffs. They just can’t go bulldozer everything

honestly though, its been decades of things not working. i think they'd rather blow it up and risk not making the playoffs (but also have a chance at changing the culture and finding more success) than keep rolling out game 7 losses with a team that 'seems' good

 

[WarriorofTime]

The tough part for Toronto is if you let Marner and Tavares walk, then what free agents are you going to replace them with? I really doubt many star players are going to want to play for the Leafs any time soon, they now know the amount of pressure in that market and that if they don't meet expectations they're going to have to dodge beers and jerseys from booing fans.

It won't be a 1 for 1. They'd likely use the cap savings to build up the depth a bit, spread the savings over the course of like 8-9 different players to be slightly more expensive than right now. It's a clear re-tool and high chance it would mean taking a small step back, which is a big argument for why they likely should have done it a few years ago and been in a better position by right now with more time to build up organically. Especially harder without their 1st round pick the next three years.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

It won't be a 1 for 1. They'd likely use the cap savings to build up the depth a bit, spread the savings over the course of like 8-9 different players to be slightly more expensive than right now. It's a clear re-tool and high chance it would mean taking a small step back, which is a big argument for why they likely should have done it a few years ago and been in a better position by right now with more time to build up organically. Especially harder without their 1st round pick the next three years.

Ok but like those depth players are going to have to want to sign in Toronto. Who the hell is going to want to play there? Toronto will have to overpay for any players, or they'll be picking through the discount bin for their depth.

 

[Zarzh]

It won't be a 1 for 1. They'd likely use the cap savings to build up the depth a bit, spread the savings over the course of like 8-9 different players to be slightly more expensive than right now. It's a clear re-tool and high chance it would mean taking a small step back, which is a big argument for why they likely should have done it a few years ago and been in a better position by right now with more time to build up organically. Especially harder without their 1st round pick the next three years.

So they're going to miss the playoffs and give up lottery picks?

 

[WarriorofTime]

So they're going to miss the playoffs and give up lottery picks?

Not miss the playoffs, it shouldn't be that dramatic, they'll still compete and try their best. It'll just be hard to match 108 points next season if they let Marner and Tavares walk.

 

[Zarzh]

Not miss the playoffs, it shouldn't be that dramatic, they'll still compete and try their best. It'll just be hard to match 108 points next season if they let Marner and Tavares walk.

Is the plan for Matthews to score 80 goals to lead them to a wildcard team? How is a team with an aging and merely decent defense, two bargain bin goalies, and no scoring depth supposed to win.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Ok but like those depth players are going to have to want to sign in Toronto. Who the hell is going to want to play there? Toronto will have to overpay for any players, or they'll be picking through the discount bin for their depth.

no way. Toronto will have decent players wanting to sign with them. The issue is Matthews and by extentsion the core aren't winners, and they wont win with matthews making 14 mil. The other issue is there are no stars available this offseason that are game changers. They need to wait out the Matthews contract while signing players with heart and determination to win. I feel weird saying it, but Treviling was able to bring in the right type of players at the deadline, so if he keeps it up, they'll be okay as long as they cycle out the core and replace them with a better type of player.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

For the 2025 draft eleven 1st round DPs have been traded, and none of them in the top 15. You can find guys in the 2nd half of the round, but it's definitely a lower probability. Outside of Debrincat to OTT I'm struggling to find examples of rebuilding hockey deals where a quality youngish player went for close to full value.

And the guys you're talking about potentially trading (Matthews, Nylander, Reilly) all have NMC's that you can't just assume they'll waive. See Mich Marner.

All very true

They’re screwed!

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

no way. Toronto will have decent players wanting to sign with them.

You sure about that? There's 32 teams in the league. In 31 of those cities you don't have to deal with a massive amount of pressure that results in fans throwing beer at you and booing you off the ice.

Multiple Florida players have directly called out Toronto as a market as the sole reason why they haven't had postseason success. Every player in the league knows what you're signing up for when you play for the Leafs, and last night's display by the fans is an all time low for a fanbase that has already had plenty.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

You sure about that? There's 32 teams in the league. In 31 of those cities you don't have to deal with a massive amount of pressure that results in fans throwing beer at you and booing you off the ice.

Multiple Florida players have directly called out Toronto as a market as the sole reason why they haven't had postseason success. Every player in the league knows what you're signing up for when you play for the Leafs, and last night's display by the fans is an all time low for a fanbase that has already had plenty.

IMO - it's more about the press than the fans. I think that if the Leafs brought their best game and came up short - the fans would have been devastated but appreciated the effort. When a team just absolutely rolls over and takes it two games in a row at home - that's what gets the fans upset. Losing a game 7 is always tough - but when the stars no-show and mail it is when it absolutely kinky. Hell, even though they lost in the ECF the fans still worship Gilmour and Clark because they played their asses off and left it all on the ice.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Relocation when?

-Signed, Leafs fans

Relocate down the street.

Toronto 2 baby.
Vibes out of this world.

Jump on the bandwagon!

 

[Oilslick941611]

You sure about that? There's 32 teams in the league. In 31 of those cities you don't have to deal with a massive amount of pressure that results in fans throwing beer at you and booing you off the ice.

Multiple Florida players have directly called out Toronto as a market as the sole reason why they haven't had postseason success. Every player in the league knows what you're signing up for when you play for the Leafs, and last night's display by the fans is an all time low for a fanbase that has already had plenty.

Toronto has never had issues with players wanting to sign there, I dont see that stoping.

Its entirely posible that the fans are causing issues with how ravenous they are, but Toronto has never had issues signing talent in the past.

So yeah, im sure about that.

IMO the players deserved the all the boos they got last night. 9 years of failing,9 years of no shows from matthews and marner, 7 straight game 7 losses. Expensive tickets and high expectations. The effort the leafs gave last night should have MLSE refunding tickets for all the fans who went to that game. It was shameful and it will never be let down, and they deserve to be reminded of it.

Toronto isn't the only high pressure market in the league, other teams do fine under the pressure. Its on mangement to find the right balance of players that can handle it. No one on the ice last night deserves a pass for any criticism. Im not even a leaf fan, but i felt sorry for my brother in law last night. Total no show when it mattered most. Maybe Matthews should rethink playing in a Canadian market if this is all he has. Remember, this just isn't one year of this, its 9.

 

[Oilslick941611]

IMO - it's more about the press than the fans. I think that if the Leafs brought their best game and came up short - the fans would have been devastated but appreciated the effort. When a team just absolutely rolls over and takes it two games in a row at home - that's what gets the fans upset. Losing a game 7 is always tough - but when the stars no-show and mail it is when it absolutely kinky. Hell, even though they lost in the ECF the fans still worship Gilmour and Clark because they played their asses off and left it all on the ice.

This. NO toronto player can say they left it all out on the ice last night.

The Oilers lost the cup final in game 7 last year and i wasn't pissed. The effort was there and they left it all on the ice, you can't ask for more than that. The Leafs didn't do that, and they know it. They deserve the boos they got.

 

[crowi]

Leafs always lose, yet it's somehow a pressured market? f*** that. They have statues of guys who never won anything in front of their stadium. They actually get the cheesiest defense for sucking in the league. Even a whole TV show will glaze them for sucking.

Matthews calls the team out as passengers, he'd lose his poorly awarded captaincy instantly in most teams. With leafs, they'll keep sucking it.

 

[Fatass]

You sure about that? There's 32 teams in the league. In 31 of those cities you don't have to deal with a massive amount of pressure that results in fans throwing beer at you and booing you off the ice.

Multiple Florida players have directly called out Toronto as a market as the sole reason why they haven't had postseason success. Every player in the league knows what you're signing up for when you play for the Leafs, and last night's display by the fans is an all time low for a fanbase that has already had plenty.

If a player gives it their all in TO, they are beloved by the fan base. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are not “dawgs”. They’re puddy tats. Look how Tanev is perceived. Even Domi. Guys who give it everything. Knies too. Fans adore him. Yes there’s pressure in TO away from the rink.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

IMO - it's more about the press than the fans. I think that if the Leafs brought their best game and came up short - the fans would have been devastated but appreciated the effort. When a team just absolutely rolls over and takes it two games in a row at home - that's what gets the fans upset. Losing a game 7 is always tough - but when the stars no-show and mail it is when it absolutely kinky. Hell, even though they lost in the ECF the fans still worship Gilmour and Clark because they played their asses off and left it all on the ice.

Gilmour and Clark was over 30 years ago, that city was only in a 26 year long cup drought at that point. Pressure builds, and it's now almost 60 years without even reaching the finals. Anyone who signs there is going to be looked at as an answer to a 60 year problem. And when the players don't meet those expectations they are met with a fanbase that thinks they're justified in throwing things at their players and booing them off the ice. Do you actually have a good answer as to why any good player that has multiple offers would ever choose Toronto after what they just witnessed? That's an all time low display from a hockey fanbase.

Again, they threw beer and relentlessly booed the hometown kid who they once paraded around as a hero and future savior.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Toronto has never had issues with players wanting to sign there, I dont see that stoping.

Its entirely posible that the fans are causing issues with how ravenous they are, but Toronto has never had issues signing talent in the past.

So yeah, im sure about that.

IMO the players deserved the all the boos they got last night. 9 years of failing,9 years of no shows from matthews and marner, 7 straight game 7 losses. Expensive tickets and high expectations. The effort the leafs gave last night should have MLSE refunding tickets for all the fans who went to that game. It was shameful and it will never be let down, and they deserve to be reminded of it.

Toronto isn't the only high pressure market in the league, other teams do fine under the pressure. Its on mangement to find the right balance of players that can handle it. No one on the ice last night deserves a pass for any criticism. Im not even a leaf fan, but i felt sorry for my brother in law last night. Total no show when it mattered most. Maybe Matthews should rethink playing in a Canadian market if this is all he has. Remember, this just isn't one year of this, its 9.

Toronto had never thrown beer at their own players and chased a hometown hero out of town booing him every time he touched the puck in his very last game with the team until last night. Events like last night change a fanbases reputation and players across the league will absolutely take notice, you're in denial if you think otherwise. Toronto already had a reputation as one of the most difficult markets to play in, and it's a proven fact that reputation caused a lot of players to want to stay away from playing there. That's only going to get worse after last night's meltdown.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

If a player gives it their all in TO, they are beloved by the fan base. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander are not “dawgs”. They’re puddy tats. Look how Tanev is perceived. Even Domi. Guys who give it everything. Knies too. Fans adore him. Yes there’s pressure in TO away from the rink.

Those guys are all supporting pieces. If Knies is a top player on that team then the pressure turns on him too. Leaf fans are ravenous and no player is safe from their wrath.

The message is very clear after last night: show up or we will hate you with everything we have. What sane player will sign up for that?

 

[Oilslick941611]

Toronto had never thrown beer at their own players and chased a hometown hero out of town booing him every time he touched the puck in his very last game with the team until last night. Events like last night change a fanbases reputation and players across the league will absolutely take notice, you're in denial if you think otherwise. Toronto already had a reputation as one of the most difficult markets to play in, and it's a proven fact that reputation caused a lot of players to want to stay away from playing there. That's only going to get worse after last night's meltdown.

you seem more interested in kicking the fans when they are down than criticizing the players who didn't show up at all. Im not sure theres anything more to discuss with you on this topic.

 

[BeranekAndNeck]

Toronto had never thrown beer at their own players and chased a hometown hero out of town booing him every time he touched the puck in his very last game with the team until last night. Events like last night change a fanbases reputation and players across the league will absolutely take notice, you're in denial if you think otherwise. Toronto already had a reputation as one of the most difficult markets to play in, and it's a proven fact that reputation caused a lot of players to want to stay away from playing there. That's only going to get worse after last night's meltdown.

I think it was deserved tbh. This Leafs core have mailed it in ten years running, so I do not at all blame their fans for having a meltdown after seeing it happen on home ice not once but twice in the same round. I don’t believe that type of dual ass kicking has ever happened before in a seven-game series.

That Matthews followed it up by throwing his teammates under the bus cemented their grievances for me. The man just doesn’t have one give a shit bone in his entire body, and that alone is worth a few more thrown jerseys and beers. Those are the kinds of comments that kickstart firesales.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

you seem more interested in kicking the fans when they are down than criticizing the players who didn't show up at all. Im not sure theres anything more to discuss with you on this topic.

Lol I've criticized them plenty. They deserve criticism. They don't deserve shit thrown at them.

I'm sorry if talking about the reality of how unappealing of a market Toronto is in the NHL right now upsets you. But I think it's pretty relevant to talk about it considering these players seem to play better when they're on the road where they're away from the media and the rabid fans.