Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[Retire91]

That's the problem. Why are the Wings signing so many crappy olds with no future when they're rebuilding. For the pretend goal of "staying competitive?" Look where it's it gotten them.

But to answer your question, Captain "We addressed the problem" Larkin is getting pretty close.

The short time contract plugs while the kids develop that are part of every standard rebuild process ever?

 

[lilidk]

After new Year celebration I like to see
Cat Larkin Raymond
Veleno Kasper Berggren
Ficsher Copp Compher
Watson Motte Soderblom
Byram/ Power - Seider
Edvinsson Chiarot
Hall AJo
New coach
Copp and Holl have negative value, Rasmussen+ for defansman. Somehow get rid of Gus , Kane and Tarasenko

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

It's neither...it's just facts...

The DRW rebuild started 9 years ago...or 6 years ago...

Ottawas rebuild started 8 years ago or 2 years ago

Same goes with all the rest if they've had a GM change..

So long as we're consistent I could care less...that's all



Well is 8 years w/o a playoff spot AND still looking to draft top 5 consistent with all those other comparables you mentioned?

and yet, the title of the thread is 'where did YZERMAN go wrong with the rebuild?'

 

[Hobnobs]

Problem is, I'd say 80% of the people in attendance aren't die hard Red Wings / hockey fans like the large majority on this board. They're just people looking for something fun to do downtown. Which is fine, but it's actively hurting the people who actually care about the on ice product.

Chris I. doesn't see any difference in our dollars spent however. Such is life in corporate America.

Yeah, I could see that being the case. Would make more sense to go see the Lions at the moment if you're a casual. Maybe we should start picketing the games?

 

[lidstromiscool]

Just for grins looked at the Pens rebuild wishing we had this kind of luck

Year. OA pick
2003 - 1 Fleury
2004 - 2 Malkin
2005 - 1 Crosby Letang in the 3rd round
2006 - 2 Staal

If you are picking 1 or 2 for 4 straight years you are probably going to end your rebuild pretty pretty pretty quick

A huge part of why this rebuild failed is the lack of high end talent. Seider is elite, Raymond and Larkin are nice pieces. Nothing special after that. This team should've stayed at rock bottom until they had lottery luck. Yeah the 19-20 season was miserable, but so is this season and the foreseeable future. Signing older washed up players not only block younger players, but also keep Detroit in purgatory (not good enough for the playoffs, not bad enough for a realistic chance at the lottery). Being the 6th oldest team in the NHL while having only one high end prospect sure is a terrible spot to be.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

and yet, the title of the thread is 'where did YZERMAN go wrong with the rebuild?'

And yet, despite the title of the thread, many posters chose to compare to other rebuilds?

 

[Snuggs]

And yet, despite the title of the thread, many posters chose to compare to other rebuilds?

Well it's a deflection of the realization that Yzerman isn't doing a good job recently.

Everything after the Kane signing last year has been a disaster. From not bringing up Edvinsson in a playoff chase, to not making a trade for that playoff chase/run, to resigning scrubs like Veleno/Rasmussen. Letting go a few of the wrong guys and basically bringing in useless UFA's outside of Talbot.

It's crazy right now... like no direction. They aren't good, the coach is bad, most the players are bad and aren't long-term, there aren't enough young kids playing. Team captain looks like he's going to get phased out of a Stanley cup window with this team. Many teams are making moves, minor ones even, and Yzermans just got the sinking ship moving steady forward. Yet we'll see random wild trades like Walman/Fabbri.

I don't know why anyone is supposed to care this year if Wings don't. I'm waiting about a week after the trade freeze to see if a deal is done before I just check out. Lotta smoke before the holidays and I'd say the way we're losing doesn't help hide the smoke. A move needs to be made for the future imo, I almost don't care if it's for Pettersson, Cozens, any young top 4 LHD or someone in-between a shake up needs to happen, (imo). They need to land a young player that'll fit the rebuild time frame.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

I'm getting more bothered by the fact that Yzerman is allowed to hide and be in complete radio silence.

The fans need to hear an explanation from the architect of this mess and what is going to be done to rectify it ASAP.

 

[norrisnick]

Well it's a deflection of the realization that Yzerman isn't doing a good job recently.

Everything after the Kane signing last year has been a disaster. From not bringing up Edvinsson in a playoff chase, to not making a trade for that playoff chase/run, to resigning scrubs like Veleno/Rasmussen. Letting go a few of the wrong guys and basically bringing in useless UFA's outside of Talbot.

It's crazy right now... like no direction. They aren't good, the coach is bad, most the players are bad and aren't long-term, there aren't enough young kids playing. Team captain looks like he's going to get phased out of a Stanley cup window with this team. Many teams are making moves, minor ones even, and Yzermans just got the sinking ship moving steady forward. Yet we'll see random wild trades like Walman/Fabbri.

I don't know why anyone is supposed to care this year if Wings don't. I'm waiting about a week after the trade freeze to see if a deal is done before I just check out. Lotta smoke before the holidays and I'd say the way we're losing doesn't help hide the smoke. A move needs to be made for the future imo, I almost don't care if it's for Pettersson, Cozens, any young top 4 LHD or someone in-between a shake up needs to happen, (imo). They need to land a young player that'll fit the rebuild time frame.

Honestly signing Kane is one of Yzerman's bigger player-related mistakes.

"We want to build a team with an identity of hard work"

"Insert this all-time floater into your top 6."

Reeks of Ilitch wanting a ticket/jersey cash-grab... Casual fans loved it. You know the type. They chant a handegg player's name at a hockey game...

 

[rangersblues]

Well it's a deflection of the realization that Yzerman isn't doing a good job recently.

Everything after the Kane signing last year has been a disaster. From not bringing up Edvinsson in a playoff chase, to not making a trade for that playoff chase/run, to resigning scrubs like Veleno/Rasmussen. Letting go a few of the wrong guys and basically bringing in useless UFA's outside of Talbot.

It's crazy right now... like no direction. They aren't good, the coach is bad, most the players are bad and aren't long-term, there aren't enough young kids playing. Team captain looks like he's going to get phased out of a Stanley cup window with this team. Many teams are making moves, minor ones even, and Yzermans just got the sinking ship moving steady forward. Yet we'll see random wild trades like Walman/Fabbri.

I don't know why anyone is supposed to care this year if Wings don't. I'm waiting about a week after the trade freeze to see if a deal is done before I just check out. Lotta smoke before the holidays and I'd say the way we're losing doesn't help hide the smoke. A move needs to be made for the future imo, I almost don't care if it's for Pettersson, Cozens, any young top 4 LHD or someone in-between a shake up needs to happen, (imo). They need to land a young player that'll fit the rebuild time frame.

When you don't have cap space (because you wasted it or otherwise) it's more difficult to trade for players like Pettersson without maneuvering.

 

[SirloinUB]

When you don't have cap space (because you wasted it or otherwise) it's more difficult to trade for players like Pettersson without maneuvering.

I hate it when my GM doesn't have enough cap space to make a theoretical trade for a guy that won't actually be traded.

Well it's a deflection of the realization that Yzerman isn't doing a good job recently.

Everything after the Kane signing last year has been a disaster. From not bringing up Edvinsson in a playoff chase, to not making a trade for that playoff chase/run, to resigning scrubs like Veleno/Rasmussen. Letting go a few of the wrong guys and basically bringing in useless UFA's outside of Talbot.

It's crazy right now... like no direction. They aren't good, the coach is bad, most the players are bad and aren't long-term, there aren't enough young kids playing. Team captain looks like he's going to get phased out of a Stanley cup window with this team. Many teams are making moves, minor ones even, and Yzermans just got the sinking ship moving steady forward. Yet we'll see random wild trades like Walman/Fabbri.

I don't know why anyone is supposed to care this year if Wings don't. I'm waiting about a week after the trade freeze to see if a deal is done before I just check out. Lotta smoke before the holidays and I'd say the way we're losing doesn't help hide the smoke. A move needs to be made for the future imo, I almost don't care if it's for Pettersson, Cozens, any young top 4 LHD or someone in-between a shake up needs to happen, (imo). They need to land a young player that'll fit the rebuild time frame.

His last year of work has been not good. I think his work up to the last year was good enough that he deserves a chance to course correct through the offseason and into next year.

I also think its important to not panic and overpay because we are so upset about the last year. Go for a guy like Cozens, but don't overcompensate for a bad 12ish months by overpaying for him. (I say this because I saw someone suggesting an unprotected 1st + for Cozens which is crazy to me).

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Honestly at this point any move other than a coaching change screams "trying to protect my job," which is literally how Lalonde has been coaching and why he needs to go..

Coaching change immediately
Culture change now
Sell at the TDL
Draft top 5
Pro scout change
Hyper aggressive offseason

 

[saska sault]

When you don't have cap space (because you wasted it or otherwise) it's more difficult to trade for players like Pettersson without maneuvering.

Wings have cap flexibility going forward for the years that actually matter. Who is signed long term? Sure there is guys signed through next year which suck, no one likes that but that's minor in the bigger picture.

 

[SirloinUB]

Wings have cap flexibility going forward for the years that actually matter. Who is signed long term? Sure there is guys signed through next year which suck, no one likes that but that's minor in the bigger picture.

That is why I still support Yzerman. All of his big picture moves have been great. Walman might be the exception to this, but even then I'm not entirely sold on him as "big picture."

Really, everything up to the last year was at least a decent enough transaction to move the team forward.

His foundational type moves have all been good.

In the last 10ish months he has made some suspect short term moves that have set the team back. And while I entirely believe that, a chance at a top 5 pick this year is probably better for this team than squeaking into playoffs.

 

[Snuggs]

I hate it when my GM doesn't have enough cap space to make a theoretical trade for a guy that won't actually be traded.



His last year of work has been not good. I think his work up to the last year was good enough that he deserves a chance to course correct through the offseason and into next year.

I also think its important to not panic and overpay because we are so upset about the last year. Go for a guy like Cozens, but don't overcompensate for a bad 12ish months by overpaying for him. (I say this because I saw someone suggesting an unprotected 1st + for Cozens which is crazy to me).

I do too. I fall short when it comes to the "fire him crowd". I'm not asking for that but, it's time hold feet to heat and demand something.

I'm not saying pull the clip to the grenade either, I want a real smart move that brings in some real talent. Not something dumb for a middle six guy and not some huge overpay for a guy like Cozens/Pettersson or a full blown 3-4 year rebuild trading away Larkin/Debrincat. I personally like Pettersson a lot but, whatever, there are or will be others that'll pop up as the season moves along, I'm sure. Some nifty deal for Zegras would make me happy at this point.

What I really really fear is this team will mull along, trade guys like Kane/Fischer/Lyon for low picks and go back into next offseason looking to fill "holes" on the roster and again not give prospects a chance or sign a major signing with the cap space.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

what’s within the realm of possibility. We sell off pieces hopefully sooner rather than later. Kane Tarasenko Gus all possibly will be dealt. My throw in is compher too. More moveable than copp. Could fetch maybe a 3rd.

Bring up Danielson, Mazur, Soderblom, Wallinder.

Larkin at some point probably goes out for 15 games for his yearly injury.

Kasper Larkin Raymond
Debrincat Danielson Berggren
Rasmussen Copp Mazur
Soderblom Veleno Fischer/Motte

Chiarot Seider
Edvinsson Petry
Wallinder Johansson

Will force us to be bottom 3.
Even with bad luck looking at 4 and probably Misa or Martone

Trade: MBN, Veleno, 2nd for Zegras
Trade: Berggren,Ras for Krieder


Out : Berggren Ras Veleno Motte Husso
In: Zegras,Martone, ASP, Sign Ekblad as the big off season acquisition, Krieder


2025-2026

Debrincat Larkin Raymond
Zegras Danielson Martone
Krieder Kasper Mazur
Soderblom Copp Fischer/Watson

Edvinsson Seider
Ekblad Sandin-Pellika
Wallinder Johansson/Holl

Talbot
Cossa
Lyon

merry christmas everybody

 

[Winger98]

I wouldn't trade Nygaard for Zegras at this point. Zegras's production has cratered the past two years, he's never progressed at faceoffs, and he just had knee surgery a couple of weeks ago. Maybe he comes back from surgery in a month and takes off, but the guy is slowly becoming a reclamation project.

 

[Steve91]

I think I would die if we ever acquired Zegras. We need guys who play hard, and he's one of the softest players I've ever seen.

 

[norrisnick]

I think I would die if we ever acquired Zegras. We need guys who play hard, and he's one of the softest players I've ever seen.

A Zegras trade would be doubling down on the Kane f*** up.

 

[ShanahanMan]

We have zero and I mean ZERO dynamic players with offensive creativity. Zegras at the very least would provide that.

 

[Oddbob]

We have zero and I mean ZERO dynamic players with offensive creativity. Zegras at the very least would provide that.

	Scoring			Goals	Assists	Shots	Ice Time	Faceoffs
Rk	Player	Age	Pos	GP	G	A	PTS	+/-	PIM	EVG	PPG	SHG	GWG	EV	PP	SH	SOG	SPCT	TSA	TOI	ATOI	FOW	FOL	FO%	BLK	HIT	TAKE	GIVE	Awards
11	Trevor Zegras	23	C	24	4	6	10	-7	10	3	1	0	0	6	0	0	46	8.7	85	406:53	16:57	58	94	38.2	16	23	7	19

Yeah, look at all that offensive creativity and defensive creativity.

 

[Snuggs]

Red Wings fire Derek Lalonde and Hire Gerard Gallant as HC.

Red Wings trade F Vladimir Tarasenko, F Michael Rasmussen, F Marco Kasper, G Trey Augustine and their 1st round pick.
Sabers trade F Dylan Cozens and their 2nd round pick.

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD William Wallinder, and the Red Wings 3rd round pick this year and in 2026.
Sharks trade LHD Mario Ferraro.

Alex DeBrincat – Dylan Larkin – Patrick Kane
Amadeus Lombardi – Dylan Cozens – Lucas Raymond
Andrew Copp – J.T. Compher – Nate Danielson
Christian Fischer – Joe Veleno – Austin Watson
Tyler Motte

Simon Edvinsson – Moritz Seider
Mario Ferraro – Erik Gustafsson
Ben Chiarot – Jeff Petry
Justin Holl
Albert Johansson

Cam Talbot
Alex Lyon

Lost:
- Derek Lalonde ( Head Coach )
- F Vladimir Tarasenko
- F Michael Rasmussen
- F Marco Kasper
- F Jonatan Berggren
- G Trey Augustine ( Prospect )
- LHD William Wallinder ( Prospect )
- 1st rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2026.

Gained:
- Gerard Gallant
- F Dylan Cozens
- Buf 2nd rdp 2025
- LHD Mario Ferraro

Reevaluate at TDL to see if you're sellers or minor buyers. Hire a real coach or extend Gallant depending on how it goes. Move contracts in the summer to get younger/better depth. Figure out if Danielson/Lombardi can handle some play at center. Give guys like ASP/Buch/Mazur/Toumisto/Cossa shots at making the roster next year. Every FA can be let go in offseason except maybe.... Christian Fischer at minimum...
( Kane/Motte/Watson/Petry/Johansson/Lyon ) all gone. Sign maybe ONE top six forward who can score 20-30 goals consistently. Not four guys with a collection of 20 goal seasons in their careers.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

And yet, despite the title of the thread, many posters chose to compare to other rebuilds?

other posters have brought up the timeline of other rebuilds in order to refute the claim that yzerman has failed, when in reality he's pretty much right on track

 

[Oddbob]

Red Wings fire Derek Lalonde and Hire Gerard Gallant as HC.

Red Wings trade F Vladimir Tarasenko, F Michael Rasmussen, F Marco Kasper, G Trey Augustine and their 1st round pick.
Sabers trade F Dylan Cozens and their 2nd round pick.

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD William Wallinder, and the Red Wings 3rd round pick this year and in 2026.
Sharks trade LHD Mario Ferraro.



Lost:
- Derek Lalonde ( Head Coach )
- F Vladimir Tarasenko
- F Michael Rasmussen
- F Marco Kasper
- F Jonatan Berggren
- G Trey Augustine ( Prospect )
- LHD William Wallinder ( Prospect )
- 1st rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2026.

Gained:
- Gerard Gallant
- F Dylan Cozens
- Buf 2nd rdp 2025
- LHD Mario Ferraro

Reevaluate at TDL to see if you're sellers or minor buyers. Hire a real coach or extend Gallant depending on how it goes. Move contracts in the summer to get younger/better depth. Give guys like ASP/Buch/Mazur/Toumisto/Cossa shots at making the roster.

That first trade is all manners of yuck. 3 high end pieces for a guy that is half a point a game, plus giving away Ras who still would have value to teams.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Red Wings fire Derek Lalonde and Hire Gerard Gallant as HC.

Red Wings trade F Vladimir Tarasenko, F Michael Rasmussen, F Marco Kasper, G Trey Augustine and their 1st round pick.
Sabers trade F Dylan Cozens and their 2nd round pick.

Red Wings trade F Jonatan Berggren, LHD William Wallinder, and the Red Wings 3rd round pick this year and in 2026.
Sharks trade LHD Mario Ferraro.



Lost:
- Derek Lalonde ( Head Coach )
- F Vladimir Tarasenko
- F Michael Rasmussen
- F Marco Kasper
- F Jonatan Berggren
- G Trey Augustine ( Prospect )
- LHD William Wallinder ( Prospect )
- 1st rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2025
- 3rd rdp 2026.

Gained:
- Gerard Gallant
- F Dylan Cozens
- Buf 2nd rdp 2025
- LHD Mario Ferraro

Reevaluate at TDL to see if you're sellers or minor buyers. Hire a real coach or extend Gallant depending on how it goes. Move contracts in the summer to get younger/better depth. Figure out if Danielson/Lombardi can handle some play at center. Give guys like ASP/Buch/Mazur/Toumisto/Cossa shots at making the roster next year.

hellllllllllll no