Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

wingsfannn919191

Registered User
Oct 3, 2024
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Just leave Hole and Copp, both have negative trading values , trade everyone else except first and third lines ,Ed and Seider. Talbot and Cossa tandem will be great. Sell, sell, sell, bring #3 defansman
I think copp at 3 mill can be moved. Dont think yzerman does it cause he'd be admitting to a mistake but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Talbot and cossa tandem sounds nice but if moving talbot at 50% to a contending team like Colorado fetches us a 1st + I'd do it since we wont be doing anything this year and next . Think a lyon cossa tandem splitting duties can be ok

That first can then be used in a deal for like a zegras or someone else that might be available. We don't have have much else than can bring us a big return. Maybe a compher at 3-3.5 to cash strapped contending team which I dont see yzerman doing
 
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lilidk

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Mar 4, 2008
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I think copp at 3 mill can be moved. Dont think yzerman does it cause he'd be admitting to a mistake but I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Talbot and cossa tandem sounds nice but if moving talbot at 50% to a contending team like Colorado fetches us a 1st + I'd do it since we wont be doing anything this year and next . Think a lyon cossa tandem splitting duties can be ok

That first can then be used in a deal for like a zegras or someone else that might be available. We don't have have much else than can bring us a big return. Maybe a compher at 3-3.5 to cash strapped contending team which I dont see yzerman doing
We just got something great in Talbot and I don't wanna get rid of it even for first, he could be great mentor for Cossa
 

wingsfannn919191

Registered User
Oct 3, 2024
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We just got something great in Talbot and I don't wanna get rid of it even for first, he could be great mentor for Cossa
If he was like 32 sure but hes like 38 and has 1 more year left if we can get a 1st for 50% retention and flip that pick+ something for a zegras type guy I'd do it without hesitation
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
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Imprisonment, TN
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Yzerman has done a terrible job since 2019 let's just call a spade a spade. I loved him as a player. Probably my second favorite wing all time after Fedorov but who cares about all that shit. This team has zero direction. Is old. Has horrible contracts.
Zero elite young superstar dynamic offensive players. Yeah you could say Raymond but I don't ever see him as a perennial 90-100pt season kind of guy. Its just a complete shit show. And the owner sucks too. Yzerman has zero pressure of losing his job. Country club vibes.

I want Yzerman to draft these mystical players that don't exist too!
 

TheOctopusKid

Registered User
Sep 24, 2010
1,481
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Selling off now... would be odd. Not sure if we would exactly be getting the best bang for the buck given adding veteran player to teams looking to shore up before the playoff push, part of that is the accrued cap savings for those players and knowing exactly what you're lacking before the playoff run... so trying to move off of Kane at this point or whatever else is being suggested at this point seems a bit ... far fetched.

Not that a trade isn't possible, but I have to imagine it would be more of a hockey trade. But honestly, unless the trade involved Ray, Mo, Ed, or a top prospect... I would hope that Yzerman would consider any offer seriously regardless of the timing of the year or where we are in the standings.

You could look at something like a ...Carolina who might want to add some size and power to their bottom six or something we do a Rasmussen trade for one of their D prospects and a pick. But I can't imagine we would be moving off Copp or Kane etc. at this point. No one would have the space or immediate need for making that kind of move.
 

FMichael

Registered User
Dec 22, 2010
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Yes they don't exist. Kaprisov in the 5th round doesn't exist. Or Adam Fox etc. Just stop.
Yes they do exist…Datsyuk and Zetterberg are also examples of such…Unfortunate reality is that finding these guys is like predicting the winning lottery numbers…18 yr olds aren’t always easy to predict their futures.
 

Steve Yzerlland

Registered User
Jul 18, 2018
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Yes they do exist…Datsyuk and Zetterberg are also examples of such…Unfortunate reality is that finding these guys is like predicting the winning lottery numbers…18 yr olds aren’t always easy to predict their futures.
That's fair but he hasn't done us any favors with the terrible signings. His drafts haven't even been that bad just none of these guys project to be franchise carriers. I hope one of Kasper, Danielson ASP and or Cossa end up being this. If that's the case this will be our last year dealing with a mediocre team with the assumption he doesn't hand out these awful deals like Copp,Holl Chiarot and maybe even Compher at this point to a lesser degree of course.

wut? IF Yzerman drafted those players, then they would be playing in Tampa right now. How does that help DRWs?
They are examples of the top of my head of later round picks that are superstars.

Clever. Since you couldn’t answer a question asked of you.

Ultimately, who sets up the system the players play on the ice?
So Copp needs a better system to justify his term and AAV? That's why he is a 4th liner getting 2nd line money?
 

TheOctopusKid

Registered User
Sep 24, 2010
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The obsession with Copp as being emblematic of the futility of rebuild and why the Wings should be shuttered as an organization is just so exhausting. Copp is not part of this rebuild in any material way outside of functioning as a stopgap between Franz F******* Nielsen, and some plug named Pius Suter to Nate Danielson and Marco Kasper.

We could’ve paid him 8M a year and it wouldn’t have made any tangible difference to anything in regards to this rebuild. Copp is there to a plowman’s work up and down the lineup and buffer weaker, inexperienced rookies and to be character guy in the locker room. Hes eating terrible minutes and he’s helping out as he can to our rookies any pretending that he is some loci or sliding door moment is just insane and it’s such a tired argument
 

The Zermanator

In Yzerman We Trust
Jan 21, 2013
3,521
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So i have to do his job to prove he is doing his job lower than we all expected? If I could tell you who we should have gotten wouldn't that make him look even worse? I have a question for you, are you pleased where we are almost 6 years after he was hired?
I've seen you mention Kaprizov in another comment. If your standpoint is that Yzerman failed because he didn't scoop up the type of player that can't be predicted and comes around once in a blue moon then you're just living in La La Land. Kaprizov went in the 5th round because 30 different teams passed on him 4-5 times before someone finally took out a flyer on him. Nobody had any idea he'd turn into that kind of player, otherwise he'd have been picked much sooner. And that goes for any player picked in late rounds who became a superstar.

But that's beside the point, Kaprizov was drafted before Yzerman came back to the Wings. The claim you're making is that Yzerman has failed at his rebuild of the Red Wings. So what superstar has he missed out on while GM of the Red Wings?

And to answer your question, yes I'm very pleased. Y'all are some impatient ma'fcks. He explicitly said when he came aboard that this was a long term project, up to 10 years. We're 5 years in now, have improved every year, have had some great drafting success with the most important picks, and are on the cusp of having one of the best defence corps in the league. With what Mo is now (and can still improve on), what Edvinsson appears to be, and what ASP is trending to become, this D corps will be anchored by 3 absolute studs within a couple years. You fill in the gaps with even average talent, and that is a great foundation to build a team around. We already have several players who could fill those gaps in Johansson, Buium, Wallinder, Tuomisto, etc. Then you add Cossa and Augustine, who are both looking great, and consider they will be benefitting playing behind that defence too. The offence needs someone to claim that 2C spot, and there's a decent chance one of Kasper or Danielson can achieve that.

And I'd even disagree that he hasn't found a superstar winger, I think Raymond is one. And he was ranked around the 6-7 range prior to the draft so Yzerman seemingly "reached" a little at 4th OA, only for Raymond to so far be looking like a top 1-2 pick in that draft. Not to mention Seider was also considered a relatively big reach at #6 when he was projected around late teens iirc, only to almost immediately show he was going to be a force in short order.

People need to just chill and be patient. Half of his rebuild isn't even on the team yet, and we're talking about some potential big time players here. If this team is already a bubble team as is, what's it going to look like when ASP is added? Cossa? Danielson, MBN, Augustine? And there's another dozen prospects who could develop to contribute in some way too. This team has a tremendous amount of potential and the future looks bright, I'm not going to stress over early struggles. The foundation for success is being built and getting stronger every year. I'm just letting the process play itself out and enjoying the regular influx of high quality young talent (and occasionally high quality old talent like Kane).
 
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DanielMarois

Registered User
May 25, 2013
444
439
The obsession with Copp as being emblematic of the futility of rebuild and why the Wings should be shuttered as an organization is just so exhausting. Copp is not part of this rebuild in any material way outside of functioning as a stopgap between Franz F******* Nielsen, and some plug named Pius Suter to Nate Danielson and Marco Kasper.

We could’ve paid him 8M a year and it wouldn’t have made any tangible difference to anything in regards to this rebuild. Copp is there to a plowman’s work up and down the lineup and buffer weaker, inexperienced rookies and to be character guy in the locker room. Hes eating terrible minutes and he’s helping out as he can to our rookies any pretending that he is some loci or sliding door moment is just insane and it’s such a tired argument

Disagree, I think Yzerman thought he found his #2 C based on his production for a few games with the NYR and could accelerate the rebuild.
 

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