Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[connellc]

As a casual fan, even I knew that Holland left the team in shambles. I figured, with the picks Yzerman had, it would take at least 6 years to get back to decency. With that being said, I do think Yzerman deserves some critism here. His 2019 draft picks can no longer be buried and he's basically rid himself of all but the Abdelcater contract. This team is 95% of braintrust. I'd give him a passing grade, but based on the hype coming in people assumed he was some "guru" that could turn things around like he did in Tampa, he's failed.

My main fear is we get stuck in a perpetual middle position of missing the playoffs, without any cap space, which is entirely a possibility. I was in favor of tanking one more year to solidify another pick, but I'm not sure fans and management were patient enough for that. Edmonton with poor management took 10 years and 3 straight 1st overall picks, and half a dozen coaches, and came within 1 game of the Cup. Eventually being a cellar dweller, works if you get luck and get that lotto pick.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Sorry. I agree. It was absolutely vital they signed a stud like Copp. Where would they be without him

Ah yes, snarky sarcasm when someone actually refutes your claims.

 

[SoupNazi]

Sorry. I agree. It was absolutely vital they signed a stud like Copp. Where would they be without him

I enjoy how you just completely ignored the question in @Lazlo Hollyfeld's second sentence. But I'm curious: Do you really think Yzerman gave Copp 5 years when he could've gotten him for shorter?

 

[SirloinUB]

i sometimes can't tell if y'all are being intentionally obtuse or you really have no idea what other teams draft. there are plenty of high skill, high(er) risk guys every year that yzerman does not like drafting, in the 1st round and plenty beyond. i'll stick with just the 1st:

2024 - Trevor Connelly, Michael Hage, Liam Greentree instead of MBN
2023 - Benson (really wanted), Wood, Perrault (really wanted him), Sale instead of Danielson
2022 - Miroshnichenko, Yurov, Nazar, Savoie instead of Kasper

I'm not saying we should always be taking this kind of player (or you end up like buffalo), but you need some balance, and Yzerman has not been balanced in his time here. It's funny that the one player they targeted in the 1st round with really high upside and really high risk - ASP - is now our best prospect and the only potential elite/franchise non-NHL player we have in the system.

Many of those guys will bust, whereas MBN/Danielson/Kasper will at least be 3rd liners. But the question that I always ask, and I still haven't gotten a good response, is what is the point of drafting low end 2nd/high end 3rd liners in the 1st round?

You can find these players in FA every single year, without too much difficulty. Copp is a very good third liner. Compher is a good third liner. Rasmussen is a good third liner. Fischer is a good third liner. All these guys are not hard to find.

What is hard to find is the elite forwards that can drive play, and we should be taking a risk to get those players in the 1st round.

How would the future of this team look if we took at least one of Gabriel Perrault instead of Danielson or Miro instead of Kasper? I think much better, because those guys have true elite upside.

At some point draft position is not an excuse. Yzerman has to be held responsible if he's passing half a decade with the team looking worse than it did last year.

In regards to the bold, do you believe that’s what yzerman is targeting?

Or is it more likely that you and him have a different idea of what a high ceiling player looks like?

I think it’s the latter.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yes they had to spend the money for that season. They didn't have to lock themselves into contracts of that length for that quality of players.

Sorry. I agree. It was absolutely vital they signed a stud like Copp. Where would they be without him

Who are the better players that would have signed for less term in Detroit when the Red Wings were at their absolute worst?

 

[better Red than Dead]

To me, the issue is the pro scouts here. They are the ones responsible for finding players in other organizations, among many other tasks, and if you look at their free agent signing an and acquisitions it’s been pretty poor. I’d give that a house cleaning quite frankly because they are failing

 

[RedHawkDown]

In regards to the bold, do you believe that’s what yzerman is targeting?

Or is it more likely that you and him have a different idea of what a high ceiling player looks like?

I think it’s the latter.

I have no idea. I am not a mind reader.

I would think Yzerman evaluates talent at least somewhat similar to all of the publicly available scouting services, all of which labelled the guys we drafted as low(er) ceiling low risk guys.

If he thinks he is smarter than everybody else and knows guys are super high ceiling that everyone else thinks are low ceiling, that’s his prerogative, but then he’s got to show the associated results. So far Kasper and Danielson have shown nothing to indicate they’re very high ceiling players. They seem like all the scouting services said - safe, reliable 2way forwards capable of 50-65 pts in their prime.

 

[RedHawkDown]

All three? Yeah. At least one of them? No.
Again, all about balance.

Let's be honest if we picked Benson, Hage and Savoie we would be bitching still.