Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[DanielMarois]

In my opinion, it was not trading Larkin. Not that he's not a good player, but it's a weird situation to rebuild and have him in his prime. It creates a dynamic where by the time your prospects are ready he may be over 30.

 

[Henkka]

No, no, no. I am being told in other threads that we should already be back in the playoffs and that Yzerman was grossly negligent in failing to sign any meaningful free agents yesterday and that he has no real plan for the future.

"Meaningful free agents" would have mean putting Seider and Raymond to bridge deals.

Is that your plan?

 

[Leibinger6]

he lost the lottery a few times then got bored and decided to take his ball and go home and try to force things with middling free agents right before a once a decade level draft

the Wings should bare minimum have Michkov right now but they don't and will never get a player of that level until they eventually blow things up and start over

This may fetch hate but you’re spot on. Bad lottery luck needs to be countered with near perfect 1st round selections and round 2-7 diamonds in the rough. It wasn’t, which had Steve push the envelope and press. Contrary to most of our fans, I would have rather seen a couple more seasons of poor product yielding better draft position, than several ugly contracts keeping SY stuck in neutral now this off-season. It’s either going to take another blow-up year, or some ballsy trades to put this team in any type of real contention.

To be completely honest, and this is personal opinion, most of the players on this roster aren’t playoff material. On one hand I can name the guys on this current roster who would be effective in a playoff scenario.

 

[Henkka]

In my opinion, it was not trading Larkin. Not that he's not a good player, but it's a weird situation to rebuild and have him in his prime. It creates a dynamic where by the time your prospects are ready he may be over 30.

Sounds pretty familiar for our GM, and his player career.

 

[lilidk]

Yzerman is trying to build something similar to Panthers . He is drafting players with size and hard to play against.So the way things go , we could compete for cup in 2-5 years from now.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

"Meaningful free agents" would have mean putting Seider and Raymond to bridge deals.

Is that your plan?

Henkka, I personally have no plan. But I am being told after yesterday that we are adrift with no real plan and that we should already be in the playoffs. I just want to know why that is the case. The only consensus answer I can seem to find here is "Andrew Copp."

 

[ShanahanMan]

97.1 The Ticket absolutely blasted him yesterday and there pretty big Steve defenders. Basically said Steve needs to be fired if they miss again.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This may fetch hate but you’re spot on. Bad lottery luck needs to be countered with near perfect 1st round selections and round 2-7 diamonds in the rough. It wasn’t, which had Steve push the envelope and press. Contrary to most of our fans, I would have rather seen a couple more seasons of poor product yielding better draft position, than several ugly contracts keeping SY stuck in neutral now this off-season. It’s either going to take another blow-up year, or some ballsy trades to put this team in any type of real contention.

To be completely honest, and this is personal opinion, most of the players on this roster aren’t playoff material. On one hand I can name the guys on this current roster who would be effective in a playoff scenario.

It is never that binary though. At the end of the day we need to field an NHL roster and reach the cap floor. We were always going to sign UFAs. You can't field an NHL roster without signing UFAs. Never mind that this is a player empowered league at this point and young players aren't afraid to force their way out of town.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

This thread should be closed....it's classic bait and switch...

 

[RabidBadger]

the Wings should bare minimum have Michkov right now but they don't and will never get a player of that level until they eventually blow things up and start over

Why should they have Michkov? He went 2 selections before the Wings picked.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Henkka, I personally have no plan. But I am being told after yesterday that we are adrift with no real plan and that we should already be in the playoffs. I just want to know why that is the case. The only consensus answer I can seem to find here is "Andrew Copp."

I get and largely agree with your point that rebuilding a competitive team is a longer haul than fans anticipate. Especially when the cupboards are as barren as what Yzerman took over.

That said, is there a date that you could commit to where, regardless of context, not making the playoffs would constitute a failure?

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

I don't think he's gone wrong in the rebuild.

Team missed the playoffs by one point last season, and he didn't sign a bunch of middling forwards again. Seems like Berggren and one of Kasper/NFD/Mazur/Elmer will have a spot in the bottom 6 and will work their way up, down or out of the lineup based on how they play. Which is great, you know, youth experience in a rebuild.
Talbot is an upgrade over Reimer and probably Husso, Gus is an upgrade (defensively) over Ghost. I firmly believe Steve is going to make a trade for a defenseman before the season starts.
The Walman trade has been beaten to death, but it's not like him in the lineup was going to sway the direction of the final 10 games of the year. Same goes for Sprong, who was healthy scratched I don't know how many times. Edvinsson looked great and the org clearly has high hopes for him, playing top 4 minutes those crucial games.

I think if this next season plays out like last (hot start, injury to Larkin, nobody steps up) then we have to start considering rebuilding the rebuild. But as someone said before, we get 82 games of Ed, Razor should take the next step, and hopefully Cat is getting sleep now that his newborn a little older (yes. I'm blaming the baby for his slump, sue me)

I'm optimistic for this team. And in real life, I'm the least optimistic person on the planet. So that's saying something.

Tl;dr: the rebuild is going to best it can with the hand we were dealt (lack of lottery wins)

 

[RabidBadger]

97.1 The Ticket absolutely blasted him yesterday and there pretty big Steve defenders. Basically said Steve needs to be fired if they miss again.

The Ticket...now there's a stable of hockey experts if ever I saw one

 

[Dotter]

He lost the Bedard sweepstakes. DAM YOU STEVIE!!!

 

[DamonDRW]

Also this rebuild

In my opinion, it was not trading Larkin. Not that he's not a good player, but it's a weird situation to rebuild and have him in his prime. It creates a dynamic where by the time your prospects are ready he may be over 30.

This might be the best assessment here. In a good year we there was a chance to get two 1st for him.

 

[ricky0034]

Why should they have Michkov? He went 2 selections before the Wings picked.

yes because Yzerman signed so many free agents right before the draft that everyone knew years in advance would be the best since 2015

Michkov should have still been on the board when the Wings picked even without any lottery luck

 

[izlez]

97.1 The Ticket absolutely blasted him yesterday and there pretty big Steve defenders. Basically said Steve needs to be fired if they miss again.

1. They're pretty open about how they know nothing about hockey. They have 1 legitimate hockey fan and they parade him around to multiple shows (Note: he's just a fan and not an "expert" in any way, shape, or form)

2. Any time they bring up hockey they just shout "STEVEBOT STEVEBOT STEVEBOT" at people for NOT criticizing Yzerman and looking at the teambuilding situation with nuance

 

[better Red than Dead]

Top defender, Seider. Top winger, Raymond. This last year was their best season in ages. Not simply stopgap veterans leading the way. This team is going to be in the hands of a young group of talented players sooner than later. It's already happening.

Let Yzerman cook.

Yes, as I stated, his drafts have been the saving grace, he has gotten arguable the best players out of each draft where they lost the lottery. His trades have been ok, his free agent signings have been not so good

 

[SirloinUB]

The rebuild is progressing steadily as expected so I do not understand the premise of this thread.

 

[DamonDRW]

The rebuild is progressing steadily as expected so I do not understand the premise of this thread.

What did you expect? Trading Abdelkader and 1st for McDavid and Erne and 2nd for Eichel (2nd just because McDavid is slightly better, you know) ?

Not all GMs are complete fools. The thread is about mistakes, not miracles.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Honestly, I don't like what Yzerman has done with our defense. I think that this off-season the Walman trade was stupid, incorrectly assessing our own players and then being willing to pay an unreasonable price to move salary when we didn't need to. I think signing Chiarot was a mistake. I think signing Holl was a mistake. I think trading for Petry was a mistake. Frankly we suck at pro scouting D. Ghost, Leddy and Maatta are probably the only guys that lived up to expectations on the backend.

I'm goal, I think that we could have tried some different names, but I'm okay with who we've bet on even if they haven't worked out so far.

At forward, I'm mostly happy actually. Copp and Compher were a little boring, but we needed some center depth desperately and they provide that. They're overpaid, but we really didn't need the cap space (moronic Walman trade aside). Besides that bringing in Cat and Kane is pretty sweet.

He's mostly done well at the draft, though I'm a little discouraged by the lack of progress outside of our first rounders. I also don't love the drafting philosophy. I'm not sure that we're not going to end up with the best players for our position, but even if we do, they're the most boring options which is kind of sad in itself.

Overall though, we're still ultimately progressing towards a decent team. The best thing about the rebuild is that we haven't made any big commitments. In the next 2 seasons we're going to see the contracts of like 10 terrible players expire. That we signed those players in the first place is bad, but at least they're all leaving when we need them to. The defense from last season will have one name still around by the 2026 season (Seider). The forwards similarly are going to be completely redone in the next 2 years.

That's also when we should see Edvinsson, AlJo, Wallinder, Kasper, Danielson and Mazur establish themselves. ASP, MBN, Cossa and more should be on the verge of making it too. If we can effectively surround them with good FAs and trades, we will be exiting the rebuild shortly. Unfortunately, our pro scouting does not inspire any confidence in me personally. So the answer is that the rebuild hasn't gone wrong yet. If it does, that will happen if Yzerman makes bad FA and trade decisions over the next two years or if our prospects fizzle. I feel pretty confident that the prospects will be fine.

 

[19 for president]

You cannot quickly turn a team around in this league without some draft lottery luck and the Wings really had none. Illitch/Holland's decision to drag this team into the playoffs kicking and screaming made sure we didn't get a shot at some of the better top end draft talent in the past decade.

2014- Ekblad, Reinhart, Draisaitl
2015- McDavid, Eichel, Hanafin
2016- Mathews, Laine, Dubois

Not only did Yzerman not get a top 3 pick but we also had relatively weak drafts in comparison to the previous batch in terms of franchise talent. Hughes and Stuzzle are solid but not Mathews, Drai, McDavid level.

Yzerman is building from the backend out because its the only way to compete if you don't land that franchise forward ala a Crosby, McDavid, etc. The problem is this takes a lot longer because goalies and dmen (especially big ones) tend to peak later than forwards do.

With that said I do think he has had some missteps:

1) Not being to find a stable goaltender. Everyone he has brought in has looked good for like half a season and then bombed out. This probably kept us out of the playoffs last season. It also has a major effect on moral, which is very important to a young team. Momentum is huge in hockey and bad goals can gut young teams.

2) Holl/Petry and Copp signings. One of Petry or Holl would have been ok. Signing/ trading for both was a poor decision. They are both 6th/7th guys at this point and 5 mil is way too much to sink into that position. Copp was a classic case of a not skilled player being propped up by a skilled one in a contract year. This is the first year I can really say the contract has probably held us back from signing a better player however so I can really only gripe about it now, but I didn't really like the signing at the time either.

3) Not getting Ed or Aljo up for a majority of last season. He crammed the defense with meh players and I think both of these guys were ready for NHL duty last year. Now we continue to have a log jam on defense that may not see Aljo get a legit shot and have to expect Ed to carry the 2nd pair without a decent partner. I'd have felt more comfortable about the later if Ed had gotten more than 20 games at the end of last season.

4) Not going for a bit more skill in the later rounds. I've largely appreciated our 1st round picks, but I would have liked to see us go for more skill in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I get being a hard to play against team, but you do still need to score goals, and our only young guys with that kind of skill that is a sure fire top 6 guy is Ray. If we are going to draft guys like Danielson, MBN, and Kasper then I think we need to take a few more shots like Buch/Lombardi later in the draft. I'm hoping D/M/K take that next step offensively and solidly work into top 6 guys, but if you are going to take safer 1st round guys I think you need to spice it up a bit later. (I do think Danielson is going to turn into a Larkin like top 30ish center).

5) This one is TBD with Lalonde but I haven't been a huge fan of the coaching choices. I think we held onto Blash too long and I didn't love going for a brand new HC with Lalonde. I feel the team has been very flimsy on structure since Yzerman took over and to me that is a coaching issue. You may not have the talent to compete but you should have the basics.

 

[Bench]

Yes, as I stated, his drafts have been the saving grace, he has gotten arguable the best players out of each draft where they lost the lottery. His trades have been ok, his free agent signings have been not so good

But you said, with no ambiguity, the increase in points was due to veterans. Which you're now saying are "not so good."

You can understand how that looks like you're trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Not trying to call you out or anything, but I think it's disingenuous to say the increase in the standings is due to these veterans when it's the youth movement like Seider and Raymond leading the team in scoring and ice time.

I don't think people are taking enough notice that Raymond is blooming into a star player, his end to the year was spectacular, and he's a far bigger reason this team is moving the right direction than the likes of Copp or Perron. Although having that help while those kids develop is crucial.

Add a full year of Edvinsson next year. Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, ASP... these guys are on the way sooner than later. This team is going to be transformed to one where the veterans are supplementing this fully stocked youth movement with Raymond and Seider as the tip of the spear.

We don't know how all these guys will look as a unit yet, or if they'll live up to their draft pedigree, but we're just a couple years out from realizing the potential set in place half a decade ago. I get people want changes TODAY but this was always going to take the better part of a decade to reach contender status. That's just how the NHL works, for better or for worse.

 

[Henkka]

Henkka, I personally have no plan. But I am being told after yesterday that we are adrift with no real plan and that we should already be in the playoffs. I just want to know why that is the case. The only consensus answer I can seem to find here is "Andrew Copp."

What is this "no real plan" ??

Our plan is clear.
- Perron out (replacement still on the hunt, maybe Mazur pushing in?)
- Sprong out <> Berggren in
- Extended Kane for a bargain.
- Extended Fischer for a bargain
- Will extend all 4 RFAs (Seider, Raymond, Berggren, Veleno)

- New goalie in (who had 54 starts at last season)

- Top4 RD on the hunt. Were after Trouba, didn't work. No chance for Pesce, don't know about Roy. Those were the July 1st options, now that GM with a clear plan is experimenting other possible options.
- Signed another PP defenceman to fit partially in the Gostisbehere role.
- Opened a roster slot for Edvinsson by trading Walman and at same time created that cap space for goalie.

So what is the BIG PLAN we need in here? What is missing?

Less changes this year, it doesn't have be major changes every summer. Let there be some stability.

They said that they want to be better defensively without losing the scoring too much. Oh well, our worst defenceman defensively is gone. Regressed Perron did leave. Defensively problematic Sprong did leave.

2 kids are inserted in.

RD is still on the hunt. Let the GM work. Maybe it doesn't happen at off-season, if options are gone. Maybe it's a season-trade. The hunt will never end.

What is WRONG in the PLAN ?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Let's look at the roster Yzerman inherited from Tampa Bay for comparison's sake.

2009-10 Roster

• Norris Trophy, Conn Smythe winning D-man with over 700 career points to date.
• Richard Trophy winning center with over 500 career goals and 1,100 career points to date.
• Art Ross Trophy winning winger with nearly 400 career goals and over 1,000 career points (to be fair, he requested a trade)
• Maurice Richard winning center with over 400 career goals and 950 career points)

Recent Draft Picks before Yzerman arrived in Tampa

• 2007: Alex Killorn (900 games, 500 career points)

Now let's look at the roster and prospect pool for Detroit!

• Dylan Larkin: career numbers pretty close to Alex Killorn's, albeit in 200 fewer games
• LOL, that's it!

With all that talent in Tampa, and some solid drafting ( Kucherov, Palat, Point, Vasilevskiy), it still took Tampa 10 years to win a Stanley Cup. Detroit was in much worse shape thanks to Ken Holland. And the team was capped out on top of having one quality player they could build around.

So complaining about Yzerman is fine I guess, but I have no idea what you expect him to do. My guess is sign a bunch of free agents to crippling cap hits, and sure we probably would have made the playoffs by now but we could just as likely be at the start of a brand new rebuild with nothing to show for it and possibly be in cap hell all over again.

Pass.