When Will We Begin The Slafkovsky Discussion? - UPDATE: Hatrick Against Philadelphia April 9, 2024

[GrandmaCookie]

pace means nothing, right now they are alot closer than anyone was willing to consider last year.

Slaf might have a few less games played right now 3 of his points have come on the PP which Knies doesnt play on, so really Slaf has 5 ES points to Knies 7.

Slaf likely will be the better overall player but they aren't really all that far part which is what I was arguing last year. they seem pretty close to be honest right now

So pace means nothing, but a +/- 10 games sample from the start of the season (the same sample that is being used for projecting pace) means something?

Nice logical fallacy.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

So pace means nothing, but a +/- 10 games sample from the start of the season means something?

Nice logical fallacy.

well its a small sample size for sure but still not blowing him out of the water which is what I argued. I didnt even talk about +/- but currently Knies is +2 to Slaf +1
I pay little attention to +/- because there are great players on bad teams who can be effected by this.
I never said before that Slaf was shit just argued he's not that far ahead of Knies

 

[GrandmaCookie]

well its a small sample size for sure but still not blowing him out of the water which is what I argued. I didnt even talk about +/- but currently Knies is +2 to Slaf +1
I pay little attention to +/- because there are great players on bad teams who can be effected by this.
I never said before that Slaf was shit just argued he's not that far ahead of Knies

+/- is being used here to talk about the sample size (around 10 games), it has nothing to do with +/- stats.

If you take the small sample size, Slaf has a considerably better start of the season (going by point per game). Knies only has 1 less point than him is not a good argument for comparing the two players, since he played 3 mores games than Slaf, which represent 33% of total games this season for Slafkovsky.

Projected pace here is simply used to show the actual difference in production both these player have had since the begin of the season. Yes Knies has more goal, but overall Slaf production had been 152% of what Knies production has been points wise.

If PPG is more telling for you, Slafkovsky ranks 77th in forward for PPG with 0.89. As a comparaison, Knies ranks 159th with 0.58.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

+/- is being used here to talk about the sample size (around 10 games), it has nothing to do with +/- stats.

If you take the small sample size, Slaf has a considerably better start of the season (going by point per game). Knies only has 1 less point than him is not a good argument for comparing the two players, since he played 3 mores games than Slaf, which represent 33% of total games this season for Slafkovsky.

Projected pace here is simply used to show the actual difference in production both these player have had since the begin of the season. Yes Knies has more goal, but overall Slaf production had been 152% of what Knies production has been points wise.

I still see two players that are incredibly close to one another, one is the better player and that's obviously Slaf, he needs to shoot more though, only 14 shots through the 9 games is a little low

I also never argued that Slaf wasnt the better player just that he isn't blowing him out of the water. we ran out of time last season which was still a small sample size considering Slaf was in his 2nd season and Knies his first.

I think as time marches on these two will be compared alot more than you may think right now

 

[GrandmaCookie]

I still see two players that are incredibly close to one another, one is the better player and that's obviously Slaf, he needs to shoot more though, only 14 shots through the 9 games is a little low

I also never argued that Slaf wasnt the better player just that he isn't blowing him out of the water. we ran out of time last season which was still a small sample size considering Slaf was in his 2nd season and Knies his first.

I think as time marches on these two will be compared alot more than you may think right now

I see a player that his 20 years old producing considerably more offensively than the other one that is 22 years old. (like I showed in my prior reply, 0.89PPG vs 0.58PPG is quite a signifiant difference in production). This follow trajectory with last season (0.61PPG for Slaf vs 0.43PPG for Knies).

If anything, the difference is even bigger this season.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I see a player that his 20 years old producing considerably more offensively than the other one that is 22 years old. (like I showed in my prior reply, 0.89PPG vs 0.58PPG is quite a signifiant difference in production). This follow trajectory with last season (0.61PPG for Slaf vs 0.43PPG for Knies).

If anything, the difference is even bigger this season.

Well Knies decided to stay in college lol. Slaf didnt exactly have a very good rookie campaign anyways.
and usage..... usage has a big role to do with players production to a certain extent.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I see a player that his 20 years old producing considerably more offensively than the other one that is 22 years old. (like I showed in my prior reply, 0.89PPG vs 0.58PPG is quite a signifiant difference in production). This follow trajectory with last season (0.61PPG for Slaf vs 0.43PPG for Knies).

If anything, the difference is even bigger this season.

also forgot to mention I never said once that Knies was better than Slaf. just that Slaf isn't blowing Knies out of the water. funny how you look at both these players and still can't admit that Slaf isn't blowing him out of the water

 

[GrandmaCookie]

also forgot to mention I never said once that Knies was better than Slaf. just that Slaf isn't blowing Knies out of the water. funny how you look at both these players and still can't admit that Slaf isn't blowing him out of the water

I am not the one who brought up the blow out of water argument.

Blow out would mean 1st liner vs 3-4th line player. Slaf is producing like a high end top 6 forward, closer to first line level while knies is producing like a middle six player, while his most frequent linemates appear to be Matthews and Marner.

But if your argument is that Knies production is closer to Slaf's this season compared to last season, no, it is not. The gap is actually bigger than last season.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I am not the one who brought up the blow out of water argument.

Blow out would mean 1st liner vs 3-4th line player. Slaf is producing like a high end top 6 forward, closer to first line level while knies is producing like a middle six player, while his most frequent linemates appear to be Matthews and Marner.

But if your argument is that Knies production is closer to Slaf's this season compared to last season, no, it is not. The gap is actually bigger than last season.

how is the gap bigger this season? last year Slaf had 15 more points compared to right now he has 1 more point but 3 games less played

 

[GrandmaCookie]

how is the gap bigger this season? last year Slaf had 15 more points compared to right now he has 1 more point but 3 games less played

Do I need to re-explain for the third time how PPG work?

This season
Knies has 7 points in 12 games.
Slafkovsky has 8 points in 9 games.

Knies has 0.48PPG.
Slafkovsky has 0.89PPG.

That is more than 50% of production from Slafkovsky.

Last season
Knies had 35 points in 80 games
Slafkovsky had 50 points in 82 games

Knies had 0.44PPG.
Slafkovsky had 0.61PPG.

This is around 40% more production from Slafkovsky.

I think using a +/- 10 games sample size for your argument was ridiculous, but I am using it since this is the basis of your argument. And as shown, the gap is bigger this season than last season.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Do I need to re-explain for the third time how PPG work?

This season
Knies has 7 points in 12 games.
Slafkovsky has 8 points in 9 games.

Knies has 0.48PPG.
Slafkovsky has 0.89PPG.

That is more than 50% of production from Slafkovsky.

Last season
Knies had 35 points in 80 games
Slafkovsky had 50 points in 82 games

Knies had 0.44PPG.
Slafkovsky had 0.61PPG.

This is around 40% more production from Slafkovsky.

I think using a +/- 10 games sample size for your argument was ridiculous, but I am using it since this is the basis of your argument. And as shown, the gap is bigger this season than last season.

those ppg numbers for this season is assuming Slaf stays hot all season long. those advanced stats mean very little.

Slaf: 130gp - 68 points
Knies: 95gp - 43 points

 

[GrandmaCookie]

those ppg numbers for this season is assuming Slaf stays hot all season long. those advanced stats mean very little.

Slaf: 130gp - 68 points
Knies: 95gp - 43 points

The same applies for Knies. And this is assuming he stays on Matthews-Marner line all season.

What point are you trying to make exactly, as in what is it you wanted to accomplish by bumping this thread? Nothing this season done by Knies made him "closer" to Slafkovsky than he was last season.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

The same applies for Knies. And this is assuming he stays on Matthews-Marner line all season.

What point are you trying to make exactly, as in what is it you wanted to accomplish by bumping this thread? Nothing this season done by Knies made him "closer" to Slafkovsky than he was last season.

just bringing up that he's still not blowing him out of the water

just bringing up that he's still not blowing him out of the water

and the slaf vs knies thread was locked so found the thread that I argued he wasnt being blown out of the water in

 

[Pablo El Perro]

I never thought of points per game as an advance stat.

 

[Javaman]

Haters are probably here:

Is Slafkovsky the worst #1 pick ever ?

Seems to have no particular talent, no skill, no speed, big with no big man qualities, doesn’t produce points, his shot is bad, his passing is average… Is he the worst first pick ever ?

forums.hfboards.com

But HFBoards is undefeated at overreacting one way or another. I guarantee you that at least half of the people (correctly) preaching patience before drawing conclusions where not preaching that same patience at the beginning of the season.

Slafkovsky is still a work in progress, but its pretty hard to watch him right now and not see why Montreal took him 1st overall.

Now that he's no longer producing at a 30-35 point pace, it's fair to say he's no longer in consideration for being the worst #1OA pick in recent history. Cooley has the better PPG, so it's still premature to argue that JS is clearly the best player drafted in 2022, IMO. Time will tell.

 

[Breakers]

Pace should maybe be used at like the 70 game of a season for a player who has missed 10 games to say “he was on pace for so and so”

- Pace shouldn’t be used for 10 game samples
- Pace shouldn’t be used combining seasons
- Pace shouldn’t be used in season by omitting some games and taking into account others, that is the worst.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Pace should maybe be used at like the 70 game of a season for a player who has missed 10 games to say “he was on pace for so and so”

- Pace shouldn’t be used for 10 game samples
- Pace shouldn’t be used combining seasons
- Pace shouldn’t be used in season by omitting some games and taking into account others, that is the worst.

When comparing players, at this point in the season, it's a good tool.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Pace should maybe be used at like the 70 game of a season for a player who has missed 10 games to say “he was on pace for so and so”

- Pace shouldn’t be used for 10 game samples
- Pace shouldn’t be used combining seasons
- Pace shouldn’t be used in season by omitting some games and taking into account others, that is the worst.

Then 10 games sample size shouldn't be used as the base of an argument either.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Then 10 games sample size shouldn't be used as the base of an argument either.

Some people just can't admit to a stupid argument. And I say that as someone with little interest in Slaf.

 

[Breakers]

Then 10 games sample size shouldn't be used as the base of an argument either.

10 games at the start doesnt mean enough, even analytic firms used by NHL teams dont use something like that.

 

[Pablo El Perro]

10 games at the start doesnt mean enough, even analytic firms used by NHL teams dont use something like that.

So why is anyone reviving this thread to compare Knies to Slaf in a small sample size?

 

[Breakers]

So why is anyone reviving this thread to compare Knies to Slaf in a small sample size?

I have no idea

 

[Pablo El Perro]

I have no idea

That's what we've been saying to someone who thinks Knies having 1 more point in 3 more games played means much. That's the reason Grannies Cookies brought up pace at all.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Let's just all agree this bump was useless and move on folks. Knies 12 games sample size hasn't changed anything to the Slaf/Knies situation.

 

[Javaman]

Let's just all agree this bump was useless and move on folks. Knies 12 games sample size hasn't changed anything to the Slaf/Knies situation.

It genuinely never occurred to me that Knies had anything to do with this. Why are you introducing Knies into the discussion?