When will Bouchard be considered elite?

[Perfect_Drug]

So....how about that Bouchard kid?

Or am I in the Draisaitl thread?

Bouchard has Elite offense, but is a shit defender.

But I don't watch the games, I just read the stats and see he's the top of Dman scoring, so assume he's crap. Likely compiles points by having McDavid bank them off his shinpads into the net.

 

[Pucklington]

No

You said you do not consider Draisaitl in the MacKinnon tier until he scores like MacKinnon against elite teams.

Which I proved he does.

And then you moved the goalposts by citing that it should be discredited due to scoring multiple points in a few games.
To which I demonstrated MacKinnon did the same.


And now you're trying to say I am making a strawman argument.
Which I am not.

... lol... I think he'll log out for a few days and pretend he didn't post.

 

[sepHF]

Bouchard has had a real knack for big moments this run. He has been in on almost every single big goal by the Oilers

he has also immensely improved defensively, especially under pressure. He's really good at rolling off checks and making outlet passes under pressure. He's going to command a pretty penny next contract

on the Draisaitl talk all i will say is he has been better than McDavid in the playoffs his entire career, but gets outproduced in the regular season by a handful of guys. He's also doing what he's doing right now with his finger in a splint

Some players just have another gear in crunch time and Draisaitl is one of those players

 

[authentic]

Bouchard has had a real knack for big moments this run. He has been in on almost every single big goal by the Oilers

he has also immensely improved defensively, especially under pressure. He's really good at rolling off checks and making outlet passes under pressure. He's going to command a pretty penny next contract

on the Draisaitl talk all i will say is he has been better than McDavid in the playoffs his entire career, but gets outproduced in the regular season by a handful of guys. He's also doing what he's doing right now with his finger in a splint

Some players just have another gear in crunch time and Draisaitl is one of those players

Not true. A few seasons ago McDavid put up the most dominant performance we have seen from a single player in a long time, though Draisaitl was amazing too especially playing injured.

 

[McFlyingV]

Bouchard has had a real knack for big moments this run. He has been in on almost every single big goal by the Oilers

he has also immensely improved defensively, especially under pressure. He's really good at rolling off checks and making outlet passes under pressure. He's going to command a pretty penny next contract

on the Draisaitl talk all i will say is he has been better than McDavid in the playoffs his entire career, but gets outproduced in the regular season by a handful of guys. He's also doing what he's doing right now with his finger in a splint

Some players just have another gear in crunch time and Draisaitl is one of those players

On the bolded he really doesn't. Tied with Mackinnon for the 3rd highest P/GP and second in goals to only Matthews since 2018.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Did you know that over the last two seasons, Makar is averaging 3.15 5v5 GA/60 without Toews on the ice?

Erik Karlsson, last year when he won the Norris and was called the worst defensive player in the world because of his high GA, had a 5v5 GA/60 of 3.45. Then account for teammates and goalies and I think they're pretty similar.

Would you say that Makar is being babysat on defense by Toews, or does that only apply to Bouchard? And just for reference. Evan Bouchard without Ekholm over the same two-year span. 3.05 5v5 GA/60.

Makar when on the ice with Toews basically has MacKinnon always.

I'd say Makar is babysat by MacKinnon and Rantanen controlling the ice more than Toews.

Bouchard now has developed into everything Makar was supposed to be two years ago.

Meanwhile Makar is a one way PP merchant. Which is what everyone thought Quinn Hughes would be.

To compare them to the past generation Bouchard is Weber. Hughes is Keith. Makar is James Wisniewski.

 

[zaYG]

Makar when on the ice with Toews basically has MacKinnon always.

I'd say Makar is babysat by MacKinnon and Rantanen controlling the ice more than Toews.

Bouchard now has developed into everything Makar was supposed to be two years ago.

Meanwhile Makar is a one way PP merchant. Which is what everyone thought Quinn Hughes would be.

To compare them to the past generation Bouchard is Weber. Hughes is Keith. Makar is James Wisniewski.

This may be the hottest of hot takes I’ve ever seen in my dozen years on this forum.

 

[Three On Zero]

This may be the hottest of hot takes I’ve ever seen in my dozen years on this forum.

Mentioning Bouchard in the same breath as Makar and Hughes is a hot take in itself

 

[sepHF]

On the bolded he really doesn't. Tied with Mackinnon for the 3rd highest P/GP and second in goals to only Matthews since 2018.

He's been very consistent. Just saying there's a small amount of guys who can / have put up more pts then him in the regular season (Mac, Kucherov twice, Kane) This year he was 7th which is a "down year" for him. Over that stretch though him and McDavid have dominated forsure

Not true. A few seasons ago McDavid put up the most dominant performance we have seen from a single player in a long time, though Draisaitl was amazing too especially playing injured.

He did, and McDavid probably would've got the Smythe that year because of he had a few big goals to close out series, but i dunno I have always thought Draisaitl is more impactful over all on both sides of the puck. Good problem to have i guess

He kept up with Connor on one leg, imagine if he was healthy that run?

 

[boopronger]

Meh people are overrating his defense and im a huge Bouchard fan. Game 5 last series he had like 5 giveaways it was brutal.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Dude you guys are a very strange fan base I don't know what it is, you get triggered if people don't worship Draisaitl as if he's Malkin to McDavids Crosby. You get triggered if people point out defensively flaws in Bouchards game instead of calling an elite offensive D-man. You get triggered if people point out drop in production when playing against higher level teams. You get triggered when people mention the Oilers history of struggling vs the higher end teams in the playoffs.

Like you literally want to be worshipped otherwise people can't talk Oilers It's very weird and extremely entitled, never seen another teams fan base do this with their stars. How dare someone have an opinion about our players! How dare someone critique a players game! My players are the bestest! If you don't think so you're just a biased big meanie!

"Everyone else is crazy and I'm normal"

 

[Mr Positive]

Meh people are overrating his defense and im a huge Bouchard fan. Game 5 last series he had like 5 giveaways it was brutal.

That's the thing. You can look at game 1 vs Dallas and say that he was better than Heiskanen, so he must be at least equal, but Bouchard does have these epic lapses. Most of the time Bouchard has high end defense though. He wins board battles in his zone. He has great outlet passes. He can carry the puck. He has a good instinct for passing lanes and has the coordination to pick off tricky passes. But there will be awful decisions peppered in there.

I do think it is an interesting question about whether he is elite or not. I don't think he is but what is the definition of elite? Do they have to be that fast skating puck carrier type that quarterbacks the team?

 

[GreeningOil]

Great post.
I mean the truth is if you put him on the Sharks or Hawks he does a lot worse than if you put Makar or Heiskanen there.

Bouchard Is a good player, but he's getting overrated on these boards.

Based on extreme subjectivity?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Makar when on the ice with Toews basically has MacKinnon always.

I'd say Makar is babysat by MacKinnon and Rantanen controlling the ice more than Toews.

Bouchard now has developed into everything Makar was supposed to be two years ago.

Meanwhile Makar is a one way PP merchant. Which is what everyone thought Quinn Hughes would be.

To compare them to the past generation Bouchard is Weber. Hughes is Keith. Makar is James Wisniewski.

I am fully on board with the wisinewski comp. Let's see where it takes us

 

[theMajor]

maybe after another solid season or two, i didnt realize hes only 24!

 

[CupofOil]

He is having himself a hell of a year. But its only a year. I also don't think Makar is generational either. Last generational Dman the league had imo was Lidstrom. All these new age Dmen have a hell of a long way to go to match Lidstrom.

I think Makar is generational. He does things that are simply once in a lifetime stuff with his unreal skating/puck handling/hockey IQ combo, kind of like the McDavid of defensemen. I've never seen a Dman do what Makar does on a regular basis (not nearly old enough to see Bobby Orr play).

In any event, Bouchard is no Makar but he is very very good and is getting better all the time and he's having the coming out party of all coming out parties in the playoffs in crunch time.

 

[CupofOil]

Meh people are overrating his defense and im a huge Bouchard fan. Game 5 last series he had like 5 giveaways it was brutal.

The entire team was brutal in the game, might have been the worst game I've ever seen an Oilers team play and there's A LOT to choose from.

His defense is being overrated a bit though. He's improved significantly but he still has those casual WTF moments with the puck in the D zone ocassionally. I'd classify his defense has average to maybe above average but he tilts the ice so heavily offensively that he doesn't have to defend much so it becomes less of an issue, sort of like Draisaitl who isn't naturally great defensively but is so overwhelming at creating offense that it doesn't really matter much that he isn't that great defensively. That's the best defense sometimes, just to have the puck a lot and that's the case with Bouchard.

 

[Spawn]

Mentioning Bouchard in the same breath as Makar and Hughes is a hot take in itself

Its only a hot take if you don't actually watch him play in addition to ignoring every stat/metric.

 

[Mr Positive]

We can declare him elite after we re-sign him

 

[boopronger]

The entire team was brutal in the game, might have been the worst game I've ever seen an Oilers team play and there's A LOT to choose from.

His defense is being overrated a bit though. He's improved significantly but he still has those casual WTF moments with the puck in the D zone ocassionally. I'd classify his defense has average to maybe above average but he tilts the ice so heavily offensively that he doesn't have to defend much so it becomes less of an issue, sort of like Draisaitl who isn't naturally great defensively but is so overwhelming at creating offense that it doesn't really matter much that he isn't that great defensively. That's the best defense sometimes, just to have the puck a lot and that's the case with Bouchard.

Mostly agree. His defense has definitely improved, id still call it average. Brutal giveaways once i awhile and I dont trust him on odd man rushes against. Bit soft. But yes obviously his offense more than makes up for it.

Wheres that canuck fan who was very certain bouchard wasnt even an nhl defenseman ?

 

[boopronger]

Its only a hot take if you don't actually watch him play in addition to ignoring every stat/metric.

Bouchard is definitely not on makars level

 

[eviohh26]

I think Makar is generational. He does things that are simply once in a lifetime stuff with his unreal skating/puck handling/hockey IQ combo, kind of like the McDavid of defensemen. I've never seen a Dman do what Makar does on a regular basis (not nearly old enough to see Bobby Orr play).

In any event, Bouchard is no Makar but he is very very good and is getting better all the time and he's having the coming out party of all coming out parties in the playoffs in crunch time.

Guess you never watched Erik Karlsson.

 

[TheNumber4]

I don't think he's great defensively, but I think he can and most likely will improve (like I said about Hughes a couple years ago). He's elite offensively, there's no question about it. I don't know why that's something to get defensive about. He's a really good player with lots of room to still improve on, I don't see how that's a bad thing. I just wont call him an elite overall player because I think his defensive game is average. But like I said, with proper coaching I fully expect him to develop that part of his game. The guys what 24 ? He probably has another 3 years before he actually hits his prime. As of now, elite offensively, maybe in a couple years we can call him a complete elite D-man.

Sure maybe I should've been politer and not used "babysat" when talking about him, but hope you get my point.

My opinion about Draisaitl currently is, he's an elite player that benefits from playing with a generational player. Easiest way to break it down, I don't think he's on McDavid/Kuch/Mackinnon level, but rather in the Pastrnak/Matthews bracket. I don't think that's a diss, but after this years playoffs if he keeps performing how he is, I'd put him up in the top tier with the 3 other guys no question. My only point against Drai is, he scores like McDavid (generational) against poor teams in the playoffs, and puts up normal superstar type points vs the average/good teams (the kind of player I think he is, a superstar) but if you want me to put him in McDavid/Kuch category, he'll have to do it vs a good/elite team like Dallas for example. So if he continues this kind of production, yeah I'll put him up there with the 3 other guys no question.

You “think” wrong though. It’s what happens when you don’t watch his games and pretend to know what you are talking about. If he was as bad or even average defensively as you think he is. He wouldn’t be rated so highly by analytics.

Stop bringing "stats" or "facts".

Nothing will shake his unwavering belief that Dmen with lots of points are horrible at defense.

He also self-admittedly missed the entire game, but woke up in time to watch Bouchards setup for the GWG, and posted about it 7 hours later.

View attachment 875322

LOL! As I predicted. Just another Leaf’s fan talking out of spite and jealousy instead of providing a legit scouting report.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Again please go read slower before responding, or here I'll copy paste it for you again so you somehow don't misinterpret it for the 5th time

"My only point against Drai is, he scores like McDavid (generational) against poor teams in the playoffs, and puts up normal superstar type points vs the average/good teams (the kind of player I think he is, a superstar) but if you want me to put him in McDavid/Kuch category, he'll have to do it vs a good/elite team like Dallas for example. So if he continues this kind of production, yeah I'll put him up there with the 3 other guys no question."

He doesn't put up the "generational" type points vs elite teams, there's a noticeable drop off in his production as well as his teams record when facing tougher teams outside of the Pacific division. Historically there is a clear gap, I don't understand how you're triggered about this. Like I literally stated I believe he's a top 10 player in the league and can be solidified as an undisputed top 5 player in the world (alongside McDavid, Kuch, Mack) if he keeps playing how he is. And that somehow offended you this badly ? Holy crap man :|

You're literally whining and fighting because I said he produces at superstar level vs elite teams and should be in the same tier as Pastrnak/Matthews right now not McDavid/Kuch/Mackinnon unless he maintains this high level of production through the WCF.

I'm done with this man lmao, literally can't believe you're this triggered because I said he's a top 10 player with a chance to solidify himself as a top 5 player if he keeps playing like this. Have a good day bro.


Some of your fanbase went nuts and turned this into a Draisaitl thread, using strawmans, I'm done with this

Bouchard is a stud offensive D-man and we can call him an elite overall D-man when he rounds out his game a bit.

I thought arrows are supposed to shoot straight? You don't. Your posts are way off the mark and you counter it by claiming anyone disagreeing with you are fanatics

Your arrows aren't just missing the mark, they are crooked

 

[Czechboy]

Mentioning Bouchard in the same breath as Makar and Hughes is a hot take in itself

103 points for Bouch this season.. 102 vs Hughes. One was very visilbe in his teams advancement to round 3. The other, not so much.