When Was The Last Time You Were This Optimistic About Toronto’s D Core?

[ponder]

Kaberle - Phaneuf
Beauchemin - Komisarek
Gunnarsson - Schenn

Then they hit the ice...

I wasn't too optimistic about this group personally. We acquired Phaneuf near the trade deadline, when we could see that this group (minus Phaneuf) was well below average in practice. Phaneuf was already past his heavily hyped early days in Calgary, by this point his defensive deficiencies were clear. He was known in Calgary as guy who brought physicality and a bomb from the point, but a liability in his own end, who had to be given soft minutes and/or partners who could cover for his mistakes. He didn't seem likely to be a one-man fix. Had this group been put together in an offseason, I would have been pretty excited, because it looked good on paper. But it was put together mid-season, when any optimism for the squad (and D corps) was already gone for me.

I agree with Leetch/Kaberle/McCabe as the last time I was similarly excited for a Leafs D corps as this year - we had an already decent D, added an aging but still very good dman in Leetch, and we did make it to game 6 of the 2nd round that year. Too bad that was the only season with this trio - Leetch was signed for 04/05 too, but the lockout happened, and then we left as a UFA in 2015 (and we getting old anyways).

A nice thing about this year's group - they were actually above average under Keefe last year, despite terrible injuries. We're taking that existing group, subtracting a guy who never fit (Barrie), adding a guy who I expect to fit well (Brodie), and 2 nice supporting pieces (Lehtonen and Bogo), there's good reason to be optimistic. This group has a legit shot to be a top ~5-10 D corps in the league IMO.

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Lehtonen - Bogosian
Sandin - Dermott

1st and 3rd pairings look strong in terms of both talent and fit. 7/8 dmen look exceptionally good - if anyone in the top 6 falters or gets injured, we have great options. For the 2nd pair, Muzzin is really strong, a legit top pair guy. Holl on our 2nd pair is the only real weakness, and he seems to at least fit well with Muzzin. Overall the group just looks to have a nice blend of offensive skill, defensive ability, puck moving, physicality and depth.

 

[OB34KNH]

Been a while since I’ve gone into a season without worrying about our D core, but I’m pleasantly optimistic this year, especially if Dermott makes a step forward and Lehtonen lives up to the hype.

Lehtonen is a healthy scratch ... LOL

 

[Goose]

Lehtonen is a healthy scratch ... LOL

Isn’t him being down about the cap situation more than anything?

 

[OB34KNH]

Isn’t him being down about the cap situation more than anything?

Apparently he didn't make the Top 6 ....
I was expecting big things from Lehtonen, but, seeing that he can't even crack the Leafs top 6 D, how good is he in the first place?

 

[Goose]

Apparently he didn't make the Top 6 ....
I was expecting big things from Lehtonen, but, seeing that he can't even crack the Leafs top 6 D, how good is he in the first place?

It’d be nice if one of the cap gurus could confirm or deny, but I thought with the taxi squad and Lehtonen being waiver exempt (whereas Dermott is not) we would be seeing Lehtonen doing a lot of moving up and down through the season.

I thought him starting on the taxi squad wasn’t so much “you’re not good enough” as it was “you’re the most flexible piece.”

Could be wrong though, hopefully he’s not actually just a 7D.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Apparently he didn't make the Top 6 ....
I was expecting big things from Lehtonen, but, seeing that he can't even crack the Leafs top 6 D, how good is he in the first place?

You don’t think it’s worth letting him get a chance to play before completely writing him off...?

I voted 10 years, Leafs are typically stereotyped as having trash defence. I’m excited at how underrated the defence is.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Honestly, this D appears, in my eyes at least; to be a more formidable D core then they have had in probably 20 years. Maybe since somewhere between 2001-2003, if I think off the top of my head.

I do remember thinking that the 2001 team in particular had the horses to win it all. For the first time ever in my life, I made that statement with complete honesty during the middle of the season to a colleague. If not for those grinding, VERY physical 7 games series, who knows? The D in that period had balance, mobility, grind and bite.

The Leafs D will be a more critical element to their success, if they are to have any this year, than most consider. I think some might be undervaluing Bogosians ability to play a tight game, that will make going to the Leafs net far less of a viable option for opponents. I'm writing him in as the dark horse for surprise (to some) contribution on this teams success. I think when the competition begins, he will be a Gamer on the back end.

Brodie plays a solid defensive game that forces turnovers, Muzzin will be formidable again and play his minutes, Reilly will be solid (healthy and slightly more physical?). Hopefully Dermott/Holl continue to grow and the younger D find their way in the league during the season.

All in all. If the team plays the game the way I see them playing. The other Canadian teams will not be feasting on them as they have in recent years.

 

[meefer]

Decades!

It's the first time in decades where the Leafs D, if a serious injury occurs to any of our top 3 pairing Dmen, can see a player who looks like an adequate NHL defenseman step in as a replacement.

 

[Le Cobra]

NEVER BEEN EXCITED ABOUT OUR D CORE EVER - maybe a bit when we Brian Leetch but besides that - our D has been piss poor for decades (always relying on elite goaltending to save the day from Potvin to Cujo to Belfour and Reimer and now Andersen)

it is only now I am excited for our D and I’ve been a fan since 94

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Hmm probably since Lou was in charge and giving out sweetheart deals to Zaistev. As the day-drunk hf Leafs posters who aren't allowed to see their kids constantly state "Dubas hasn't done anything to the defense."

But yes, in all honesty it's been a long time.

 

[Zybalto]

Apparently he didn't make the Top 6 ....
I was expecting big things from Lehtonen, but, seeing that he can't even crack the Leafs top 6 D, how good is he in the first place?

Might be a few things at play. He's waiver exempt and just got here and the Leafs wanted to protect Dell so they could keep their goalie depth so theres that.

Keefes take when asked:

You had Mikko Lehtonen moved around and Travis Dermott with Zach Bogosian today. Is that for today, or what is the thinking there?
Keefe: Reflecting on it and looking at last week for Mikko and the game the other day and how it has all gone for him, we like a lot of things about him. Certainly, on the power play, we feel he is ready to contribute there. We think there are other areas of his game that need a little bit more time. We don’t want to rush him into a situation that he is maybe not adjusted to here quite yet. We are going to take our time with that.

Sounds like he certainly in the plans and sure makes me glad to have him around after the injuries last year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I’ll be the first to admit, it was the summer we got Beauchemin

I mean, mainly a result of being bad defensively for most of the cap era, but the two years we had Beauchemin were actually 2 of our 4 best years defensively since 2007.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

The D corps looks fine, what I want to know is if the forwards will make an effort back checking? I want to see wingers and centres; blocking shots, getting sticks in passing lanes and playing all around great defensive hockey in the D Zone.

 

[613Leafer]

Probably 2006-2007.

Kaberle-McCabe
Kubina-Gill
White-Coliacovo

Kubina had been a top pairing guy on the SC winning TB team, Hal Gill was considered a solid secondary top 4 guy, Kaberle/McCabe were in their primes, and we had a couple of young guys with potential in White/Coliacovo who already had NHL experience.

Goaltending was an absolute disaster that year though, and the depth up front was also really bad.

 

[Mess]

Our Dcore looks more promising this year than last, and better than most years in the past decade, when you factor in the level of competition they will face in a pandemic shortened season and only needing to face 8 of the 30 other NHL teams to hoist the Cup.

This defense vs 6 X Canadian and 2 X American teams max in a 56 game season is a lot different then evaluating them against the full NHL on a 82 games season.

It may never be asked to face Crosby or Malkin or OV or Stamkos or Boston's perfection line even a single time, it will need to hold up mainly against McDavid and Draisaitl as its greatest test this year.

If the defense can stay relatively healthy a top 2 finish in the new North Div is strong probability. IMO

 

[justashadowof]

Probably 2006-2007.

Kaberle-McCabe
Kubina-Gill
White-Coliacovo

Kubina had been a top pairing guy on the SC winning TB team, Hal Gill was considered a solid secondary top 4 guy, Kaberle/McCabe were in their primes, and we had a couple of young guys with potential in White/Coliacovo who already had NHL experience.

Goaltending was an absolute disaster that year though, and the depth up front was also really bad.

I too thought that was going to be a quality group with Stralman and other more modest defense prospects also in the pipeline (Bell, Kronwall, Harrison and Wozniewski). But take a look what happened: 24th in the league in goals against, the team was a disaster defensively and a worst disaster the year following.

As for this team, Brodie should be an upgrade over that forward who lined up on defense and bailed out every time he needed to battle for a loose puck. Bogosian is a lateral move from Ceci IMO. Bogo is tougher, Ceci was a little bit more mobile. Not sure that's a great trade off. Holl is still in the mix so the team essentially has two 3rd pairing RHD sharing the 2nd/3rd slots. Not ideal. If Sandin and/or Dermott take a leap forward, this defense could be golden. There's no guarantee of either and the rhetoric regarding Dermott sounds like the gauntlet has been laid down for him. Lehtonen is the other X factor. Him being able to play would be a big bonus. It's almost better that he isn't too good because he'll play his way straight out of town into being a desirable free agent.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Been watching the team for 22 years can't remember a time I was thrilled about the defense. Even the Quinn teams had guys like Aki Berg Cory Cross and Jyrki Lumme patrolling the blue line giving me heart palpitations.

 

[613Leafer]

I too thought that was going to be a quality group with Stralman and other more modest defense prospects also in the pipeline (Bell, Kronwall, Harrison and Wozniewski). But take a look what happened: 24th in the league in goals against, the team was a disaster defensively and a worst disaster the year following.

As for this team, Brodie should be an upgrade over that forward who lined up on defense and bailed out every time he needed to battle for a loose puck. Bogosian is a lateral move from Ceci IMO. Bogo is tougher, Ceci was a little bit more mobile. Not sure that's a great trade off. Holl is still in the mix so the team essentially has two 3rd pairing RHD sharing the 2nd/3rd slots. Not ideal. If Sandin and/or Dermott take a leap forward, this defense could be golden. There's no guarantee of either and the rhetoric regarding Dermott sounds like the gauntlet has been laid down for him. Lehtonen is the other X factor. Him being able to play would be a big bonus. It's almost better that he isn't too good because he'll play his way straight out of town into being a desirable free agent.

Not saying it turned out well lol, just that going into that season was probably the last time I had a similar level of confidence in the blueline (though I had much less confidence in the team overall).

I do think if you took that 2006-2007 blueline and put them on a team with solid goaltending and decent forwards, the GAA would have been much better than 24th in the league.

On the flipside, the current blueline with Raycroft in net and Ponikarovsky as the 2nd highest scoring forward would probably end up with some bad numbers too.

 

[Tak7]

While Brodie is a huge upgrade, I still don't think the Leafs D-core is superb.

I'm not a fan of Holl in the top 4, and I still don't think they have a bottom pair that is capable of playing tough minutes. I think people are way too excited about Bogosian for some reason

 

[RoadWarrior]

While Brodie is a huge upgrade, I still don't think the Leafs D-core is superb.

I'm not a fan of Holl in the top 4, and I still don't think they have a bottom pair that is capable of playing tough minutes. I think people are way too excited about Bogosian for some reason

Holl while mobile is not a legit top 4 d man. His transition game is rather limited and he's soft in his own end.

Bogo is like Holl but with more physical presence.

At the end of the day I think the leafs D core will end up as:

Rielly, Brodie
Muzzin, Bogosian
Lehtonen, Holl
Sandin, Dermott

The right side is still a weak spot but not nearly as bad as last year. They certainly have much better depth. Marincin is unlikely to play at all and that's addition by subtraction.

 

[hobarth]

We've had a disconnect between the vision that the GM sees TO being and how the coach wanted the d-men to play. Barrie didn't fit in with Babs, I don't even know if Brodie would so it'll be interesting to see if Brodie is an improvement over Barrie. Barrie was and still is superior at what he does best , I don't know if Brodie is superior at anything. As much as Rielly hasn't been properly partnered I would say that Barrie was also not properly matched in any of his pairings with TO. Both Barrie and Rielly would probably be best served by being paired with a Muzzin type and I thought Barrie should've been paired with Muzzin.

Last year was a justifiably exciting time in the preseason because Barrie could've brought a lot to the Leafs which he did once Babs was dismissed. Holl and Muzzin seemed to work as might Holl and Rielly, I wonder why Holl and Rielly hasn't been tried, especially now that Rielly is healthy. Lehtonen, a probable Barrie clone, might benefit from time with Muzz as this might make his transition easier.

Bogo, Ceci, potato, potatoe, I suspect. Bogo is a depth signing that had a tough time making Buffalo, if TO's d is improved I don't think he should be included in TO's top six unless who he's partnered with is Hedman good.

I don't know if the d is better or worse, we'll soon find out bt I hope the d pairings aren't wrote in stone, I'd like to see:

Rielly/Holl
Muzz/Lehtonen
Dermott/Brodie

I think these pairings have a better balanced look and might be evenly matched as far as results even if those results would be reached differently. As the chain, weakest link saying goes I think we should be very afraid of a Dermott/Bogo pairing. All teams are going to be playing a lot of games in a short time so time management of the d pairings would probably best be served by having 3 equally competent pairings, I assume, rather than piling on mostly 2 pairings.

Mostly I'd say that if Bogo makes TO's top 6 then TO's d depth is in doubt.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I'm cautiously optimistic. If our defence can improve to middle of the pack and lower the high danger chances per game, I will be THRILLED.

 

[Rielly4]

While Brodie is a huge upgrade, I still don't think the Leafs D-core is superb.

I'm not a fan of Holl in the top 4, and I still don't think they have a bottom pair that is capable of playing tough minutes. I think people are way too excited about Bogosian for some reason

to be fair Bogosian played tough competition for tampa in the playoffs and they won the cup...

 

[zeke]

Holl while mobile is not a legit top 4 d man. His transition game is rather limited and he's soft in his own end.

Big, mobile, reliable with the puck and played very well as a top 4 dman against tough competitiin in his first opportunity.

 

[zeke]

While Brodie is a huge upgrade, I still don't think the Leafs D-core is superb.

I'm not a fan of Holl in the top 4, and I still don't think they have a bottom pair that is capable of playing tough minutes. I think people are way too excited about Bogosian for some reason

Who has a bottom pair capable of playing tough minutes?

And Bogosian will be in the same #6 role here as he just did winning the cup. IF he can hold off Lehtonen/Sandin/Liljegren, that is.