I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player, he was. Flyers that I view that were franchise players were Clarke, Barber, Lindros and Parent. Do you think that Giroux is going to be in the HOF? I think he falls short of that. Everyone in reply has made good arguments. I just don't put him at franchise player level.
Flyers' History: When Is The Last Time You Felt Good About This Team?
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Magua
I’ve seen the special moments
There’s no shot in hell Bill Barber is a franchise player over Giroux. Especially considering he spent his career with the actual franchise Hart player. Barber got a single 15th place Hart vote in his career.
Give him his due as a star but c’mon. Was Lanny McDonald a franchise player? Helluva lot of overlap. Was MacLeish a franchise player? They peaked similarly.
Give him his due as a star but c’mon. Was Lanny McDonald a franchise player? Helluva lot of overlap. Was MacLeish a franchise player? They peaked similarly.
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CerpinTaxt
Registered User
I mean what more do you want out of one of the best players during an era, and certainly the best Flyer from 2012 up until he was traded. I don't see why being elected in the Hockey HoF should be a criteria for being considered a franchise player, but I would say if Giroux can win a cup before he retires then yead he'd get in the hall. He might be able to get in without the cup even
Ironmanrulez
#nEvErrEbUiLd #nEvErpLaYyOuTh #nEverpLaYsKiLL
its ok to believe that. Giroux was one for sure, and Richards is my all time favourite flyer. I dont care what you call him. He is a winner like Jalen Hurts. So sometimes you dont need to be the best players but you will be very important for you team nevertheless.
I would take a prime Mike Richards on any team. It seems as though I'm heavily outvoted on Giroux being a franchise player so maybe I have to reassess that opinion.
flyershockey
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Giroux has been the most productive forward of his entire draft class and is currently in the top 75 on the all time points list with a couple years left to play. The production piece is pretty wild when you consider the best this team could do for him was some combination of Voracek, Hartnell and 40+ year old Jagr as linemates for the better part of decade. He should absolutely be a HOF player.
flyershockey
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To answer thread topic question, probably somewhere between game 6 against Chicago and the start of the 2010-2011 playoffs. That was the last time I thought they had the necessary pieces to win a Stanley Cup. The young core of Richards, Carter, Giroux and JVR were starting to ascend. They had the secondary depth pieces like Briere, Hartnell and Leino to fill out the top 9. They still had 2-3 years of top end play from Kimmo/Pronger, but I also thought the combination of Coburn/Carle/Mez was good enough to fill the gaps. And finally, they had this young Russian kid in net that was uber athletic and locked in.
Then the playoffs happened and they panicked. They moved Richards and Carter, signed Bryz, and tore the young core apart to add a quantity of pieces to replace quality. The final death knell was the Pronger injury.
There's been some fun in there since then (Giroux's ascension, the early Ghost years, the bubble), but that was the last time where I thought they were a top 2-3 team with a realistic shot at winning it all.
Then the playoffs happened and they panicked. They moved Richards and Carter, signed Bryz, and tore the young core apart to add a quantity of pieces to replace quality. The final death knell was the Pronger injury.
There's been some fun in there since then (Giroux's ascension, the early Ghost years, the bubble), but that was the last time where I thought they were a top 2-3 team with a realistic shot at winning it all.
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ybnvs
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I certainly could be wrong and honestly, I hope I am. However I think Giroux is going to fall short of the HOF. I think not being on a winning team is going to work against him.
flyershockey
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Look around at where he stacks up against similarly ranked players historically. All of them are either eligible and have been inducted, or they're going to be when they reach that stage. The winner mystique might tip the scales one way or another for a fringe HOF career, but that's not the category that Giroux falls under.
Yes, let's do that. Players with comparable if not better career accomplishments that aren't in the hall of fame include Alex Mogilny, Keith Tkachuk, Rod Brind'Amour, Ilya Kovalchuk, Patrik Elias and Theo Fleury
flyershockey
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Mogilny and Brind'Amour are among the two biggest snubs in HOF history, and definitely outliers in comparison. Both will still probably get in at some point.
Giroux has already surpassed Tkachuk, Elias, Fleury and Kovalchuk as players and he still has playing time ahead of him. I'd argue that he was far and away more impactful than those guys with the only exception being Kovalchuk (career longevity being his biggest problem). The rest of those guys had stretches of even their primes where they weren't even the best player on their own team. Giroux was the best player on his own team for 10 years, while also ranking among the top scorers of the 2010's.
There's also a laundry list of players that are in the HOF with similar production to where Giroux is right now. Alfredsson is probably the closet direct comparison if we want to lump in team success into the equation, and he made it in 8 years after retirement.
ybnvs
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Barring injury, Gsus clearly has at least 5 years left in him. Even well after his retirement (which I hope is as a Flyer), my heart will always reside in Girouxsalem.
Best player in franchise history. Michkov will change that.
Best player in franchise history. Michkov will change that.
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Flyers I’d rank over Giroux:
1. Clarke
-3 Hart trophies, 1st ballot HOF
2. Parent
-from 73-75 he wasn’t just the best goalie in the world, but possibly of all time
3. Mark Howe
-dominant franchise D who was robbed of at least 2 Norris trophies.
That’s it
1. Clarke
-3 Hart trophies, 1st ballot HOF
2. Parent
-from 73-75 he wasn’t just the best goalie in the world, but possibly of all time
3. Mark Howe
-dominant franchise D who was robbed of at least 2 Norris trophies.
That’s it
renberg
Registered User
Fluery is over a point per game player with 1088 points in 1084 games. Elias has 1025 points in 1240 games and won two Stanley Cups. Keith Tkachul is a 538 goal scorer and has 1065 points in 1201 games. Kovalchuk is a 2 time 50 goal scorer, won the Rocket Richard Trophy, has 876 points in 926 games. In comparison to Giroux who has 1116 points in 1263 games. I don't see how Giroux has surpassed them. They're pretty much equal.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Barber doesn't make sense. Barber is more like Voracek, or LeClair.
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Lindros, at his best, was as good or better than all of them. But he was rarely at his best. 94-95 and 95-96 are really his only 2 relatively injury free and dominant seasons. He also came up pretty small against the Panthers in the 96 playoffs and was all but invisible against Detroit in 97.
He’s still up there, but not top 4 in my book.
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
They’re close, but I still have Giroux higher.
FWIW, my top 10 would be
Clarke
Parent
Howe
Giroux
Lindros
Kerr
Barber
Leclair
Desjardins
Macleish
Magua
I’ve seen the special moments
Is Mark Recchi a franchise player?
Franchise has a more specific meaning to me than HoF. It’s a player who is capable of winning a Hart trophy any given year. No one ever viewed Barber in that way. I’m not even arguing Giroux is a textbook case, but he’s a helluva lot closer than Barber.
Franchise has a more specific meaning to me than HoF. It’s a player who is capable of winning a Hart trophy any given year. No one ever viewed Barber in that way. I’m not even arguing Giroux is a textbook case, but he’s a helluva lot closer than Barber.
BiggE
SELL THE DAMN TEAM
Yeah, that’s valid. I also look at it as were they, if not the best, say top 3 at their position or a top 10 player in the league during their prime. While Barber was a top 3 LW from 74 to 80, overall most of the top forwards were centers or played the right side during those years and quite a few of them: Clarke, Esposito, Trottier, Perrault, Lafleur, Bossy and Dionne were all better players than Barber. Plus on D, Potvin, Robinson, Salming and Park were better players and I’d rank goalie Ken Dryden over him too. That’s a dozen players ahead of him during his best years.
Giroux, playing in a league with twice as many players, was absolutely a top 3-4 forward, and top 6-8 player in the NHL for quite a few years.
Magua
I’ve seen the special moments
Barber played his prime in a 16-21 team league. He got a single 15th place Hart finish. Doesn’t scream “franchise.” Clarke and Barber were not exactly treated akin to Draisaitl and McDavid.
Barber spent his 8 year prime 14th in points/game and 8th in points (>500 games), as the 2nd (sometimes 3rd) best forward on his own team.
Giroux’s 8 year prime (>500 games), he was 1st in the NHL in points and 3rd in points/game as a center. The best PP producer in the NHL. In a way better version of the league. That’s why he had 3 Hart caliber seasons. If you want to shrink the sample and bump him down with Crosby and Malkin, what an insult.
Giroux will be a HoFer. But the stats and finishes speak for themselves
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JojoTheWhale
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This thread is why I say every time he comes up in this context that RBA is the Flyer the fanbase most overrates.
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