When does the Yzerplan start getting criticized?

[bleedgreen]

HF gold at its best here.

 

[george14]

Let the neckbeards handle it.

 

[Fatass]

I’m wondering if Yzermsn will still be GM when this Wings core takes its final step forward? Will it be like in Tampa, where Yzerman gets the club close but another GM needed to come in to make the final adjustments? IMO ASP is a key piece coming. The Wings need a 1D who can play big minutes, run the pp, and control the pace of the game. I’m just not too sure Yzerman will be the GM still when ASP arrives.

 

[Hoek]

Well he tried to dance around it talking about family stuff but it sure seemed like he left Tampa to take the Detroit job, so I doubt he's in a rush to leave the Wings in the middle of that job, and I don't think he'll be fired unless it's clear they've hit a wall, which it isn't any time soon yet.

 

[Fatass]

Well he tried to dance around it talking about family stuff but it sure seemed like he left Tampa to take the Detroit job, so I doubt he's in a rush to leave the Wings in the middle of that job, and I don't think he'll be fired unless it's clear they've hit a wall, which it isn't any time soon yet.

Growth of a club that’s young isn’t linear. Just look at Buffalo. They took a big step back this season. The Wings could certainly take a big step back next season. If they do, then it’s certainly possible Yzerman’s is replaced.

 

[MNRube]

my brother in christ you come into a "is it time to criticize yzerman" thread and call Kasper a "bad pick".
Totally, totally fair to prefer other prospects over Kasper. A bad pick? That's simply inflammatory and works against any constructive discussion.

I said it looks like a bad pick but time will tell. That very reasonable for a guy who was taken Top 10 and can’t even get to 0.5 PPG in the AHL.

Your fellow Wings fans are the ones with the inflammatory comments. Especially about none of the forwards taken after him doing anything and then referencing a random YouTube redraft as evidence.

 

[viper0220]

I think this off-season Yzerman, will make big moves, in order to push the team over the hump.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Now that there is nowhere to improve other than postseason, I imagine the Wings will either make the postseason or the criticism starts to mount louder from within the Detroit fanbase, especially with what will by next season be a lengthy amount of time for Yzerman specific draft picks to be making their mark.

 

[Miller Time]

I agree that Lalonde isn’t the right guy. With a mediocre coach this team comfortably makes the playoffs. But they’re still not winning a round against New York or Florida.

You haven’t explained what different moves Yzerman should have made to have them contend this season. In 2024.

Justin Holl & Husso roster decisions have both failed miserably. Husso was probably a decent gamble, Holl was a terrible decision from day one.

The cost of missing on starting goalie & 3rd highest paid dman going into this season is the Wings young core missing out on playoffs.

There were other top 4 D options out there last summer & this year, ditto better back up goalie options than Lyon/Reimer.

I don't think it's fair to nitpick any one roster move, as it's inevitable that some things don't go as planned... And also true that some things go way better than planned.

The body of work is where the assessment has more grounding. As a whole, the roster on ice going into this year was pretty weak & had unnecessarily large gaps that proved costly. He played it too conservative imo.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Now that there is nowhere to improve other than postseason, I imagine the Wings will either make the postseason or the criticism starts to mount louder from within the Detroit fanbase, especially with what will by next season be a lengthy amount of time for Yzerman specific draft picks to be making their mark.

Honestly, I am totally fine with us taking a step back next year, depending on how our offseason goes. If we decide that moving out some of our mediocre players is too expensive, and thus all we do is re-sign guys, add 1 year stop gaps and work Edvinsson, Berggren and Johansson onto the roster full time while giving Kasper, Danielsson, Cossa, etc a taste of NHL action, I'm okay with missing next year. By the year after, our future core should be more or less formed and starting to have an impact. The team won't yet be contenders as the young guys will need some playoff reps to contend, but that's the point where I would become critical if we miss.


Now if our offseason is different, we manage to move out some of the mediocre guys, and replace them with upgrades at the cost of futures, well then I am going to expect playoffs this year. Otherwise, I will be getting critical of our inability to bring in effective pro players.

 

[GMR]

Justin Holl & Husso roster decisions have both failed miserably. Husso was probably a decent gamble, Holl was a terrible decision from day one.

The cost of missing on starting goalie & 3rd highest paid dman going into this season is the Wings young core missing out on playoffs.

There were other top 4 D options out there last summer & this year, ditto better back up goalie options than Lyon/Reimer.

I don't think it's fair to nitpick any one roster move, as it's inevitable that some things don't go as planned... And also true that some things go way better than planned.

The body of work is where the assessment has more grounding. As a whole, the roster on ice going into this year was pretty weak & had unnecessarily large gaps that proved costly. He played it too conservative imo.

I agree with your criticism but those moves don’t have big picture significance. Maybe they’d make the playoffs this season but I’m talking about contending. Replacing Holl with Holl 2.0 wasn’t going to make them compete with the top teams in the Conference.

It seems like this thread would have ended long ago if the last day of the season plays out differently and they qualify, regardless of them getting embarrassed in the first round. I’m focused more on the long game than getting to watch a few extra games in April.

 

[Dr Quincy]

You could've slid that timeframe up had Wings not been cheated out of the lottery like 3 times in 5 years. So more time developing is needed.

Wings are a fun team to watch and it's fun watching these kids play and turn into clutch players right in front of your eyes. I'm not a fan of their coach. I think Wings are a playoff team now with a better coach.

You can't be cheated out of a lottery. Note to those fans and teams that plan on tanking: you may not end up with one of the top couple of picks. That's the risk you run when you decide to lose. No complaining about the process when the league specifically put the process in place to dissuade you from tanking.

 

[GMR]

Now that there is nowhere to improve other than postseason, I imagine the Wings will either make the postseason or the criticism starts to mount louder from within the Detroit fanbase, especially with what will by next season be a lengthy amount of time for Yzerman specific draft picks to be making their mark.

I expect more young players up next season. Meaning more experience and growth for those players. Which likely makes them less able to qualify for the playoffs.

That’s what they should have done this season instead of overplaying vets.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You can't be cheated out of a lottery. Note to those fans and teams that plan on tanking: you may not end up with one of the top couple of picks. That's the risk you run when you decide to lose. No complaining about the process when the league specifically put the process in place to dissuade you from tanking.

This x10000.

'Cheated out of the lottery's

What a pathetic statement.

 

[Dr Quincy]

At this point the only winger of the bunch you listed I'd consider over Kasper is Yurov. Kemell had 1 more goal and 6 more points than Kasper. Snuggerud saw his production drop quite a bit from last season. Lekkerimaki had 8 more points in the SHL this year than Kasper had LAST year. Ohgren looked pretty hot in Sweden and could become a very good player, but then you have to weigh positional value. A PHYSICAL, two-way 2nd/3rd line tweener center has more value than 2nd/3rd line wingers. (which is where I expect all of the names you mentioned except Yurov to land)

6 more pts in 4 less games. .61 ppg compared to .49 ppg.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I expect more young players up next season. Meaning more experience and growth for those players. Which likely makes them less able to qualify for the playoffs.

That’s what they should have done this season instead of overplaying vets.

I guess I see two primary defenses of Yzerman's tenure. 1 is that the prospect pool is very strong and 2 is that the team has improved every year in the standings. While both are true, I think that the most recent season in which they narrowly missed the Playoffs was a roster primarily consisting of players that don't factor into the long-term and whom were not recently graduated Red Wings prospect.

I think a younger roster influx and a bit of a step back in standings is fine, as long as there's acknowledgement that the 2023-24 season was a bit of a mirage in terms of where they finished in the standings and what it means for overall timing/success of rebuild.

Biggest fear would be that as graduated prospects work in and replace the veterans from the 2023-24 roster that they aren't much, if any, upgrade and then you play out the 2nd contracts of Seider and Raymond, who may or may not take a step forward into Franchise Player territory, add on Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, Danielson, Sandin-Pellika and whomever else emerges, Larkin gradually ages then declines throughout his contract, but are ultimately sort of back where you started with a 2023-24 sort of finish multiple years down the road. And that's how the "forever rebuild" ultimately occurs as it's a scenario where it becomes a question of trading impending UFAs, tanking and starting anew with a fresh batch.

Not unique to Red Wings rebuild, necessarily as it's ultimately where any rebuild *could* end up, but five years into Yzerman's tenure, there's plenty of questions and only a few answers.

 

[saska sault]

I guess I see two primary defenses of Yzerman's tenure. 1 is that the prospect pool is very strong and 2 is that the team has improved every year in the standings. While both are true, I think that the most recent season in which they narrowly missed the Playoffs was a roster primarily consisting of players that don't factor into the long-term and whom were not recently graduated Red Wings prospect.

I think a younger roster influx and a bit of a step back in standings is fine, as long as there's acknowledgement that the 2023-24 season was a bit of a mirage in terms of where they finished in the standings and what it means for overall timing/success of rebuild.

Biggest fear would be that as graduated prospects work in and replace the veterans from the 2023-24 roster that they aren't much, if any, upgrade and then you play out the 2nd contracts of Seider and Raymond, who may or may not take a step forward into Franchise Player territory, add on Edvinsson, Cossa, Kasper, Danielson, Sandin-Pellika and whomever else emerges, Larkin gradually ages then declines throughout his contract, but are ultimately sort of back where you started with a 2023-24 sort of finish multiple years down the road. And that's how the "forever rebuild" ultimately occurs as it's a scenario where it becomes a question of trading impending UFAs, tanking and starting anew with a fresh batch.

Not unique to Red Wings rebuild, necessarily as it's ultimately where any rebuild *could* end up, but five years into Yzerman's tenure, there's plenty of questions and only a few answers.

My biggest fear is bears.

You laid out a worst case scenario or close to in all situations so that would no doubt suck. Agreed on that. Also a chance they continue to trend up for 5 more years.

 

[norrisnick]

My biggest fear is bears.

You laid out a worst case scenario or close to in all situations so that would no doubt suck. Agreed on that. Also a chance they continue to trend up for 5 more years.

Yeah, if everything goes to shit, no one improves, and everyone stagnates, the rebuild is pretty toast. Shocker there...

 

[Ulysses31]

id give SY an A- in players drafted, maybe a C+ in ufas, maybe a B+ in rfa signings, A- in trades. he has done half decent with hand he has been dealt.

he's 1 of most lvl headed Gms in league. ppl who want him fired/ think he has failed are out to lunch. hes got at least at 3 year leash in detroit at this point.

 

[Dotter]

Your fellow Wings fans are the ones with the inflammatory comments. Especially about none of the forwards taken after him doing anything and then referencing a random YouTube redraft as evidence.

Is Corey Pronman "random"? I posted the YT video to bypass the paywall.

Do you think you have more credibility and authority on 2022 prospects? If so, why are you here? Shouldn't you be selling your services to an NHL team?

 

[MNRube]

Is Corey Pronman "random"? I posted the YT video to bypass the paywall.

Do you think you have more credibility and authority on 2022 prospects? If so, why are you here? Shouldn't you be selling your services to an NHL team?

I’m sorry is the guy with “The Athletic is Garbage” for his by-line fanboying Pronman?

It was a questionable pick. If he scores 40 points in the AHL next year, maybe we can have a different discussion

 

[Dotter]

I’m sorry is the guy with “The Athletic is Garbage” for his by-line fanboying Pronman?

It was a questionable pick. If he scores 40 points in the AHL next year, maybe we can have a different discussion

Yes. I think paywalls are stupid. I find no value in paying to read online content. But I most certainly would pay to read your content just for the LOLs! I also pay to see clowns.

 

[MNRube]

Yes. I think paywalls are stupid. I find no value in paying to read online content. But I most certainly would pay to read your content just for the LOLs! I also pay to see clowns.

Again, let’s check back next year when Kasper hits 40 points in the AHL. A truly amazing Top 10 pick

 

[Czechboy]

Tampa and Washington won ONE combined game in the playoffs. Sweep and 4-1.

I think, for me, half the league makes the playoffs and I see it as playoff teams and non playoff teams. All this celebrating that a team went from the worst Non playoff team to the 6th best non playoff team to the 3rd best non playoff team is funny. Progress is getting from being a non playoff team to being a playoff team.

For those wondering, here are last years best non playoff teams:

They were all worse this year. So getting to be the best Non Playoff Team doesn't mean much. Last year it was Pittsburgh. This year Pittsburgh were the second best non playoff team behind Detroit. Vancouver made tremendous progress as an example.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I said it looks like a bad pick but time will tell. That very reasonable for a guy who was taken Top 10 and can’t even get to 0.5 PPG in the AHL.

You're putting a lot of stock in that 0.01PPG difference, huh?

That's the risk you run when you decide to lose.

Oh. I didn't realize teams can just decide to win instead. GMs hate that one trick!

I think that the most recent season in which they narrowly missed the Playoffs was a roster primarily consisting of players that don't factor into the long-term and whom were not recently graduated Red Wings prospect..

Common misconception is that improving only matters if the team also hits som arbitrary "they're young" threshold. Or that roster players are only meaningful if they are locked up for 8 years, and young roster players need to be superstars in year 1, 2 or 3 because your success isn't meaningful if veteran players are helping out.

Where are the complaints about Dallas having Seguin (32), Benn (34), Duchene (33), Dadonov (35), Smith (34), Suter (39), Tanev (34) and Pavelski (39) as part of their roster makes their success a mirage consisting of players that don't factor into the long-term? Wouldn't they rather be in the situation the Devils are, where mostly everyone is young and they also really, really suck?