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When do you start to worry about Kakko & Laffy?

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I’ll worry when they each get 21 mins TOI with the best quality line mates and still put up these sluggish PPG numbers.
 
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I’m interested to know from all those that “aren’t worried” about Kakko, what are your expectations of him?

Are we not worried about him being a Top 6 player? Are we not worried about him being a 65pt guy (over 82)?

What are we not worried about?

Because if we aren’t worried about him being the top line, offensive driving, goal scoring threat we believed to be drafting, then that’s a WILD take. It’s wild considering, he’s literally produced nothing his first season+

His game has gotten better. There’s plenty more there too, but he doesn’t seem to have that innate goal scoring ability. He has some real nice handles, but I don’t see a ton of “holy ****!!!” plays.

He’s not a finished product, but I wonder if the finished product is more of a 2nd line/3rd line winger.

Buchnevich is an interesting comparison. He’s having a career year. Is this really Buchnevich? But even Buchnevich was producing significantly better his first two years, albeit older in age.

I’m worried about LaFreniere too. I mean neither of these guys have come close to living up to their expectations or preseason billing. I wonder if this franchise is just awful at developing offensive players.

What makes these decisions even more pressing is that there are franchise altering decisions upcoming. LaFreniere and/or Kakko not becoming the players we thought they would isn’t the end of the world. It hurts, but we can still be great. The killer is if we don’t probably scout ourselves and get out of them before they have little value.

Jack Eichel, Barkov, etc. may become available. Ok sure these two guys will be asked about.
 
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rdhstlr23 said:
I’m interested to know from all those that “aren’t worried” about Kakko, what are your expectations of him?

Are we not worried about him being a Top 6 player? Are we not worried about him being a 65pt guy (over 82)?

What are we not worried about?

Because if we aren’t worried about him being the top line, offensive driving, goal scoring threat we believed to be drafting, then that’s a WILD take. It’s wild considering, he’s literally produced nothing his first season+

His game has gotten better. There’s plenty more there too, but he doesn’t seem to have that innate goal scoring ability. He has some real nice handles, but I don’t see a ton of “holy shit!!!” plays.

He’s not a finished product, but I wonder if the finished product is more of a 2nd line/3rd line winger.

Buchnevich is an interesting comparison. He’s having a career year. Is this really Buchnevich? But even Buchnevich was producing significantly better his first two years, albeit older in age.

I’m worried about LaFreniere too. I mean neither of these guys have come close to living up to their expectations or preseason billing. I wonder if this franchise is just awful at developing offensive players.
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I don't want to get in a conversation about it, because there is no end to it, but Kakko is already a top6 player in the NHL as a young 20-year old. That refutes most of what you're saying about him on its own.
 
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Harbour Dog said:
I don't want to get in a conversation about it, because there is no end to it, but Kakko is already a top6 player in the NHL as a young 20-year old. That refutes most of what you're saying about him on its own.
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He’s a Top 6 player out of necessity on a team that’s going to miss the playoffs. Plenty of examples, of guys playing up on top lines that shouldn’t be.

I’ve got no problem with it, though. We need to evaluate him.
 
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Savant said:
Not necessarily “worried” about Kakko but it’s an interesting case study. The underlying stats are better but the production still isn’t there. This either means next year is his breakout year, which would mean it takes 3 years for Quinn and friends to get something out of a non-NCAA guy OR a worst case scenario. It’s kind of a risk. I wouldn’t be shopping Kakko, but if you could swap him for a guy like Byfield I think you would have to do that. Also I’m not opposed to him being a centerpiece in a trade for a 1C. Kakko (or Igor) I would make available in an Eichel deal, but not exactly going out of the way to make a move.

Lafreniere seems to be following the same development curve as Kakko. Which says a lot more about the Rangers than it does about Lafreniere. Not worried yet, but again need to see what happens next year.

I do think skating Lafreniere with Chytil is a mistake; which I have been saying for months. Both of them need to figure their games out still and with Rangers coaching staff very punishing on errors, they aren’t getting minutes because they (specifically Lafreniere and last season Kakko) are treated like NCAA freshmen. Again. This says more about the Rangers.

It’s a good think Kakko has found his way on the Panarin line, but Lafreniere should be playing on the Zibanejad line. Not that the coaching staff will do that, or have the patience to keep him there if they do. I would be doing something like this.

13 93 89
10 16 24
20 72 VK/12
33 21 17/12

but the Rangers won’t and they will keep diving the fans crazy. Long story short. More worried about Kakko than Lafreniere, but not bailing on Lafreniere and would only trade Kakko if part of a solution to get a Center.
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This. These guys need some vets to help move their games along and give them space to have a bad game here and there. It was the part of the reasoning behind signing Panarin/Kreider/etc.

I like Zib with Laf, Kakko with Panarin, Kreider with Chytil. A lot for each of them to learn there.

Also - no need to treat these guys like NCAA freshmen. They are the most talented players in the world for their age group. Personally I believe Lafreniere should have been on PP1 in Stromes spot from day 1. He’s an unbelievable passer with time and space, let him play to his strengths to build confidence.
 
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rdhstlr23 said:
I’m interested to know from all those that “aren’t worried” about Kakko, what are your expectations of him?

Are we not worried about him being a Top 6 player? Are we not worried about him being a 65pt guy (over 82)?

What are we not worried about?

Because if we aren’t worried about him being the top line, offensive driving, goal scoring threat we believed to be drafting, then that’s a WILD take. It’s wild considering, he’s literally produced nothing his first season+

His game has gotten better. There’s plenty more there too, but he doesn’t seem to have that innate goal scoring ability. He has some real nice handles, but I don’t see a ton of “holy ****!!!” plays.

He’s not a finished product, but I wonder if the finished product is more of a 2nd line/3rd line winger.

Buchnevich is an interesting comparison. He’s having a career year. Is this really Buchnevich? But even Buchnevich was producing significantly better his first two years, albeit older in age.

I’m worried about LaFreniere too. I mean neither of these guys have come close to living up to their expectations or preseason billing. I wonder if this franchise is just awful at developing offensive players.

What makes these decisions even more pressing is that there are franchise altering decisions upcoming. LaFreniere and/or Kakko not becoming the players we thought they would isn’t the end of the world. It hurts, but we can still be great. The killer is if we don’t probably scout ourselves and get out of them before they have little value.

Jack Eichel, Barkov, etc. may become available. Ok sure these two guys will be asked about.
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For all the same reasons of last week, and the week before that and the 20 other times it’s come up in the roster building thread, the DQ thread, the Laf thread and the Kakko thread.

So pretty much more of the same.
 
I’ve been worried for a while. Both are so far behind pace of other 1st and 2nd overall forwards historically that no one is really defending their play. The discussion has focused on whether these early career games are indicative of anything. Or whether Quinn is the issue. I want Quinn gone largely because I’m eager to test that theory. I know respected posters like Edge disagree with me and that’s fine.
 
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Edge said:
I feel like I also want to see what they do when they aren’t up against the same half-dozen teams every night - including the team with the most points in the NHL and three teams currently sitting 4-8 in the league standings.
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This is true. We talk about production just about blanket going down in the playoffs because it's exclusively good teams and you get familiarity over 7 games which tends to lean towards defense. We have a lot of good teams in our division and even the bad teams get that familiarity.

Laf has 6 points in 14 games against the Devils, Sabres, and Flyers.
 
Machinehead said:
This is true. We talk about production just about blanket going down in the playoffs because it's exclusively good teams and you get familiarity over 7 games which tends to lean towards defense. We have a lot of good teams in our division and even the bad teams get that familiarity.

Laf has 6 points in 14 games against the Devils, Sabres, and Flyers.
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Which works out to about 35 points, without power play time. So let’s even assume he nets 15 points on the PP, that’s in the 50 range.
 
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Uninstaaled said:
Next year if we're being serious.

Last Month if we're HFNYR.

I don't like the big step back in Laf's game. He went from good but unlucky to just not good. He's straight up Stutzle'ing without the production right now.

Though the calls to "send him down" are so f***ing stupid. Scratch him for a game or two? Fine, but if you're going to let other guys work through their issues for half of the season when they play bigger roles on this team, it makes no sense to allow him to work through his shit too.
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I said so many times the first month of the season that nobody thought Kakko was the woat player until December on. Once the scoring goes and you get stuck on a third line with Chytil, it tanks. These guys are good enough to ride shot gun with veteran players they can rely on--not just offensively, but as far as game by game consistency in their play goes, as well as for taking some responsibility off their shoulders with how results pan out.

Laf's season has been nearly identical to Kakko's rookie season. If we're all supposed to look forward to Lafreniere repeating Kakko's year 2, we're really never winning anything in my life time.
 
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