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When do you start to worry about Kakko & Laffy?

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FoxyClean

FoxyClean

Gets The Tough Pucks Out
Sep 19, 2016
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5,283
Brooklyn
If they don't produce at an 0.5 point per game pace next season, is it time to hit the panic button?

Even if they improve in some aspects, their main role is offensive production.

When does their lack of offensive production become an issue, in your opinion?
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LafreNYR said:
If they don't produce at an 0.5ppg pace next season, is it time to hit the panic button?

Even if they improve in some aspects, their main role is offensive production.

When does their lack of offensive production become an issue, in your opinion?
Click to expand...

If they don't produce in their 4th season it becomes an issue. Right now, I am happy with how Kakko is playing. I still think Lafrenière's struggles are more than just "COVID shortened season" related. But not enough for me to be worried.

Yes, I am disappointed that they aren't producing, but it doesn't mean anything yet.
 
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I would like to see Lafreniere get more involved. He has been ridiculously timid for a first overall pick. But I’m still far from worried. Kakko is also a bit timid but he’s stepping up. He reminds me of a Buchnevich in how he’s literally feeling his way through the league, exploring his power. But it’s happening way sooner for Kakko. And I think, much more explosively. What Kakko can do in one or two strides is impressive. He just needs to do it more.
 
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Kakko doesn’t really worry me at all. His overall game has really improved. He needs to shoot more, but that’ll come in time.

I’m not quite worried yet, but Laf looks lost out there right now. He has his flashes, but at times he looks overwhelmed. I think he could use a quality vet to help him and Chytil out.
 
Next year if we're being serious.

Last Month if we're HFNYR.

I don't like the big step back in Laf's game. He went from good but unlucky to just not good. He's straight up Stutzle'ing without the production right now.

Though the calls to "send him down" are so f***ing stupid. Scratch him for a game or two? Fine, but if you're going to let other guys work through their issues for half of the season when they play bigger roles on this team, it makes no sense to allow him to work through his shit too.
 
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Hire Sather said:
You have to stop and ask yourself how many players produced SO LITTLE in their first one or two years and still went on to be stars

Not many. Markus Naslund comes to mind.

I think if you are honest with yourself, there is plenty of reason to be concerned right now.
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Vehemently agree. I start to wonder whether the Hossa comparisons I see between KK snd MH are purely stylistic snd just wishful thinking on my part. If I distance myself from the situation, snd forget my NYR allegiance, I would bet that 13 (especially 13) and 24 both underwhelm — at least certainly with respect to the scouting hype that preceded their selections.

But it’s a no-win situation. Drafting is just glorified gambling and is ultimately a probability game. There is no shame — only frustration disappointment — in selecting the right players and have them bust. That’s just reality. Imagine if we had selected Stu and Laf were PPG in Ottawa or LA? We’d never hear the end of it! Same thing with Dach and Chicago the previous year. It’s fundamentally a game of chance.
 
Addendum: the objective Laf worry started many games ago. The Kakko worry is under revision.
 
Was Laf this slow in juniors? Because he looks very slow if that is the way he plays I am worried?

He has no speed and has no idea where to go without the puck. I don’t think those are good qualities to have for succes in the NHL.
 
Not necessarily “worried” about Kakko but it’s an interesting case study. The underlying stats are better but the production still isn’t there. This either means next year is his breakout year, which would mean it takes 3 years for Quinn and friends to get something out of a non-NCAA guy OR a worst case scenario. It’s kind of a risk. I wouldn’t be shopping Kakko, but if you could swap him for a guy like Byfield I think you would have to do that. Also I’m not opposed to him being a centerpiece in a trade for a 1C. Kakko (or Igor) I would make available in an Eichel deal, but not exactly going out of the way to make a move.

Lafreniere seems to be following the same development curve as Kakko. Which says a lot more about the Rangers than it does about Lafreniere. Not worried yet, but again need to see what happens next year.

I do think skating Lafreniere with Chytil is a mistake; which I have been saying for months. Both of them need to figure their games out still and with Rangers coaching staff very punishing on errors, they aren’t getting minutes because they (specifically Lafreniere and last season Kakko) are treated like NCAA freshmen. Again. This says more about the Rangers.

It’s a good think Kakko has found his way on the Panarin line, but Lafreniere should be playing on the Zibanejad line. Not that the coaching staff will do that, or have the patience to keep him there if they do. I would be doing something like this.

13 93 89
10 16 24
20 72 VK/12
33 21 17/12

but the Rangers won’t and they will keep diving the fans crazy. Long story short. More worried about Kakko than Lafreniere, but not bailing on Lafreniere and would only trade Kakko if part of a solution to get a Center.
 
Savant said:
Not necessarily “worried” about Kakko but it’s an interesting case study. The underlying stats are better but the production still isn’t there. This either means next year is his breakout year, which would mean it takes 3 years for Quinn and friends to get something out of a non-NCAA guy OR a worst case scenario. It’s kind of a risk. I wouldn’t be shopping Kakko, but if you could swap him for a guy like Byfield I think you would have to do that. Also I’m not opposed to him being a centerpiece in a trade for a 1C. Kakko (or Igor) I would make available in an Eichel deal, but not exactly going out of the way to make a move.

Lafreniere seems to be following the same development curve as Kakko. Which says a lot more about the Rangers than it does about Lafreniere. Not worried yet, but again need to see what happens next year.

I do think skating Lafreniere with Chytil is a mistake; which I have been saying for months. Both of them need to figure their games out still and with Rangers coaching staff very punishing on errors, they aren’t getting minutes because they (specifically Lafreniere and last season Kakko) are treated like NCAA freshmen. Again. This says more about the Rangers.

It’s a good think Kakko has found his way on the Panarin line, but Lafreniere should be playing on the Zibanejad line. Not that the coaching staff will do that, or have the patience to keep him there if they do. I would be doing something like this.

13 93 89
10 16 24
20 72 VK/12
33 21 17/12

but the Rangers won’t and they will keep diving the fans crazy. Long story short. More worried about Kakko than Lafreniere, but not bailing on Lafreniere and would only trade Kakko if part of a solution to get a Center.
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I mean... they've already moved to 10 16 24?

And IIRC, they did try 13 93 89 earlier this year, albeit briefly. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw it again at some point.

The simple fact is that the two players aren't putting up points... yet. And as nearly everyone has mentioned, Kakko's looking great / driving solid underlying numbers, just not getting the results. I get concerned if it's still continuing in their respective year 4 seasons. We're still quite aways away from that.
 
End of year 3, but Id like to see improvement in year 2. Year 1 is usually a write off for me when I’m considering rookies. Especially in a shortened season. But yeah after year 3 maybe I’d start to be concerned that he won’t reach his full potential (if I was a true NY fan.) But at least there is no worry that NY made the unquestionably right pick. Just have to hope for the best.
 
Scott r said:
Islanders take denis potvin number 1 overall and bossy 15th overall..nyr essentially have 2 number 1 overall and both nothing. That's the luck. I was banned in the lafren thread, be abuse i kept saying lafren blows and in the end sure does. Can he be a nhl player...who knows..will he be a star i highly doubt it. Look at the stars previously and see they r scoring by no later then 2nd year....
Kakko has 2 assists in 24 games....he will be playing overseas soon enough. You would think the dumb 0raise would stop when these kids r drafted...John Davidson ramming these kids as stars b4 they played here
Click to expand...

Why haven't the mods banned you from this subforum as a whole? They should get on that.
 
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If there's still no production ~40 games into next season (~50 pt pace or better) it's time to hit the panic button in a big way.

These aren't or shouldn't be like other prospects.
 
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I'm sure some people will say this is a copout excuse, but a lot of these young players have a hard time replicating their career production in the NHL because the NHL is a really tough league to play in. Even compared to 4-5 years ago, seems like most players are stronger, faster, and more competitive. We can pick apart the coaching, playing style, ice time, shooting %, etc. all we want. But at the end of the day it's really difficult to come in to this league as a teenager and not miss a beat against more experienced, stronger professional hockey players.

As for Kakko & Laf, my expectation is that both players are top 6 wingers (both in overall play and on the scoresheet) by or before the end of the '22-23 season, but my main concern between now and then is continual improvement. Kakko has taken a pretty significant step forward this year in his overall play. It's not as consistent as I would like to see and he hasn't really been rewarded on the scoresheet yet, but it's obvious that he's a better player. If he has a similar season next year with the same level of production, I'd begin to worry. If he replicates it again in '22-23 then it's a problem. Laf is on the same trajectory, just a year behind.
 
Brooklyn Rangers Fan said:
I mean... they've already moved to 10 16 24?

And IIRC, they did try 13 93 89 earlier this year, albeit briefly. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw it again at some point.

The simple fact is that the two players aren't putting up points... yet. And as nearly everyone has mentioned, Kakko's looking great / driving solid underlying numbers, just not getting the results. I get concerned if it's still continuing in their respective year 4 seasons. We're still quite aways away from that.
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Yes luckily they have, but to say Kakko is looked great is a stretch. Eventually he needs to start putting numbers up, and it’s an indictment on the Rangers development staff it it is taking him two years or more to do so.
 
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