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When did you know it was over for this group?

Took me longer than most. Some time in 2023 though. But I am so damn sick of this. I don’t know if I’ll be able to stomach another 82 games of JT murdering our cap.
 
It’s something that builds over time, not just one instant.
You can’t say when they hired Dubas or signed Tavares that was the moment because you don’t know. You have to see it play out.

It’s a bunch of things over 8 years from Zamboni drivers to where we are today. We know the list, it’s a long list that kept boiling over. It all adds up and now it needs change.
The definition of insanity. We’ve seen it.

Not so much when did you know only the fact that it is. Or should be. Admit the problem to heal and change. Don’t run it back.
 
For me it was the Tavares signing. I'm not sure if it was this board or another forum in which I voiced my strong displeasure.

It's not that Tavares wasn't worth the contract or the risk - he was and it's only our hindsight that makes us think otherwise. We knew that the latter years of this contract would be suboptimal relative to his AAV. At the time, a 27 year old, hometown kid, signing for a discount with the upside of hitting 100+ points per season without having to give up any assets seemed like too good to be true.

The problem is that the signing made absolutely no sense given the timings and trajectory of the Leafs, especially with three young players due for raises. For someone who was seemingly a cap and statistical savant, Dubas shortened the Leafs' content window by a solid 5 years. If anything, it was irrational hubris ("we can and we will") that led to this lapse in judgement and screwed this team's cap structure for the next decade.
 
WilliamInLondon said:
For me it was the Tavares signing. I'm not sure if it was this board or another forum in which I voiced my strong displeasure.

It's not that Tavares wasn't worth the contract or the risk - he was and it's only our hindsight that makes us think otherwise. We knew that the latter years of this contract would be suboptimal relative to his AAV. At the time, a 27 year old, hometown kid, signing for a discount with the upside of hitting 100+ points per season without having to give up any assets seemed like too good to be true.

The problem is that the signing made absolutely no sense given the timings and trajectory of the Leafs, especially with three young players due for raises. For someone who was seemingly a cap and statistical savant, Dubas shortened the Leafs' content window by a solid 5 years. If anything, it was irrational hubris ("we can and we will") that led to this lapse in judgement and screwed this team's cap structure for the next decade.
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Ya but the young players got too much
 
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hullsy47 said:
Ya but the young players got too much
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That's exactly my point - it's a direct consequence of signing Tavares at $11M per.

Dubas explains that there's a difference between UFA/RFA salaries; the players' agents rightfully counter that a 21 year old Marner outperformed a 27 year old Tavares already and thus Marner's upside/gap will only increase versus Tavares over time. The agents can't make this argument when there is not a direct comparable on the club (i.e. different teams, different scenarios; or "others teams do this, but this isn't how the Leafs operate).

Same with Matthews and Nylander. Hence why Dubas screwed this club with that signing.
 
The moment they hired Dubas. But when they gave JT the C after AM was being silly...

that's when I really knew. The woke virus infected this team. It ruins everything it touches. Thanks Dubas
 
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The Tavares signing...

$11 million for the Leafs second line centre was going to be a big problem.

In saying that though, first red flag was the trade deadline in 2016/2017. Leafs were supposed to be rebuilding still, and instead of trading van Riemsdyk and Bozak for more future assets, we traded picks to acquire Plekanec and Boyle to supposedly give our young guys playoff experience. The rebuild was essentially over, and Management wanted a quick fix boost.

Marleau signing was mind bottling as well.
 

Q: When did you know it was over for this group?​


A: After the 4th time they brought it back. I tune-in to see if they changed a little, but they never change. I only watched part of game 3 vs BOS and my eyes couldn't stop bleeding.

Apathy has set in, and I am a pretty die hard fan. Ugh...I was a pretty die hard fan.
 
Blowing the 3-1 series against the Habs.
Showed me all I needed to see. Save for Matthews, Nylander, Knies Domi (re-sign please. Born to be a Leaf) I really do not care who stays and who moves. Start at the top for management.
 
I knew they wouldn't win anything under dipshit Dubas. But it was when they cried to get Babcock fired that I knew Matthews/Marner/Nylander were p***yes who'd never win a cup together
 
2021 Bubble Season, Montreal loss. They had no excuses:
  • They won the North Division with ease, beating up on the rest of Canada, and then having the luxury of going up against those same teams they spent all year whipping, in the first 2 rounds of those playoffs. They couldn't have hand picked a better scenario.
  • No fans - no need to worry about intimidating atmospheres.
  • No media - all via Zoom, no need to worry about tough questions or difficult media scrums
  • Your biggest rival in round 1, backed by a useless inexperienced coach in Ducharme
  • One matchup line (the Danault line) being the only line you needed to keep Matthews/Marner away from
  • 3-1 series lead
The fact that they choked it away from there, is still stunning to me all these years later. That series broke me. I was a huge defender of this team, and this project, up until that point. From there, I've come to the realization that they just aren't good enough to win the cup.

Several years later, having the same head coach and same core 5 players still blows my f***ing mind.
 
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Honestly, right from the start. Too many games lost where I'd watch them just give up completely after being scored on. I wasn't seeing that with other top teams, not at the rate Toronto was doing it. Just straight up not showing up for key games like Bjorn Salming's last appearance at a Leafs game, or Tavares first game back in New York. I knew they would do the exact same in the playoffs.
 
2021 Montreal collapse.
  • North Division playoffs meant you were only playing teams you beat up on all season
  • No fans no pressure
  • No media no pressure
  • No excuses
  • 3-1 series lead
  • Still found a way to choke it away
That was the moment it really should have been blown up. It felt painfully obvious at the time. With hindsight, it's even more crystal clear now.
 
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Tak7 said:
2021 Montreal collapse.
  • North Division playoffs meant you were only playing teams you beat up on all season
  • No fans no pressure
  • No media no pressure
  • No excuses
  • 3-1 series lead
  • Still found a way to choke it away
That was the moment it really should have been blown up. It felt painfully obvious at the time. With hindsight, it's even more crystal clear now.
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Back to back choke jobs in 2020 and 2021 in a practice gym environment (in Toronto) kind of says it all about these losers.
 
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I knew it was over when Nylander scored into the empty net to make it 4-2 with 20 seconds left in the game.

What a way for Nylander to cap off his brilliant first round as he finished with NINE (8) points in the series and a well deserved first star of the game.
 
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Donnie740 said:
I knew it was over when Nylander scored into the empty net to make it 4-2 with 20 seconds left in the game.

What a way for Nylander to cap off his brilliant first round as he finished with NINE (8) points in the series and a well deserved first star of the game.
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On his birthday too… 2 goals and an assist.
 
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