When did this 'Team X needs to win Y cups otherwise they're a disappointment' thinking start?

[daver]

In recent era multi cup winners like Pens, Blackhawks, Kings, Lightning, Panthers, have maybe skewed people’s expectations for teams to win multiple cups as normal.

If a team has franchise or generational pieces, there seems to be an expectation that winning more than one is inevitable which is obviously not that simple.

Why aren't the Pens, Blackhawks, Kings, Lightning, Panthers the norm? Five teams winning multiple Cups over the past 16 seasons seems like its clear it's doable.

Only the Pens had a more talented duo than the Avs have in Makar/Mack while their supporting cast (especially with Rantanen) is pretty solid.

 

[Rorschach]

I think fans look too much at ONLY the big pieces. But, in the cap era/4 lines+3 D-pairs, the other pieces matter so much more. Edmonton fans have wised up to this as to how much the Nurse signing hampered that team for example and not blamed McDavid or Draisaitl (who can only be faulted for re-signing with a team that didn't have the pieces; a very, very minor fault).

Kings had Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Muzzin and Quick still together but didn't win anything at all once Mike Richards and Justin Williams were out of LA (and to an extent, Jarret Stoll too). Same with Willie Mitchell and Rob Scuderi.

 

[Ibanezrokr]

When people got soft and started to justify why their team was amazing even though they'd never won one.

Coming from a fan of a team without one.

 

[NeverForget06]

Seems like a question for Oiler fans. When they drafted Hall, Hopkins, and the others, all they could talk about was The Dynasty. That went to shit, until McDavid, then the talk was back on, but this time on steroids, as they had Drai as well.

The talk was 3, 4, maybe 5 Cups!!

Now, after all the 1OAs, they’d kill for a single Cup, which is looking very unlikely.

McDavid needs to win at least one Cup, and with Edmonton, or it’s all a huge waste to both the Oilers and McDavid’s legacy. He had all the tools, got to the show twice, and couldn’t finish the job. Tick tock.

I think a lot of the "team X needs to win Y cups" comes from fans like this - their team is never relevant, won't win anything for a long time, and hasn't won anything for a long time. The last time they had even a top 10 player in the league was some years ago.

So, to cope with that situation, and to deal with the prospect that other teams may actually have a change of winning, they cheer for other teams to fail, and them and their other sad buddies go round and round, cheering more for the failure of others than actually enjoying the sport.

 

[BraveCanadian]

1893

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Bragging rights. That’s all it is. The equivalent of a dong-measuring contest. But that’s what competition is, I guess.

 

[GOilers88]

It is just one of endless ways to move goalposts so that I can protect what I feel to be emotionally comfortable at the cost of any objectivity. Were I to be upfront with the criteria by which I judge teams and players, others would easily be able to falsify my claims and potentially create disconnect between what I feel to be true and what is arguably true.

Should a previously cupless team I do not like win one, I just move onto the fact that they should have done more - and so I can keep my stance that they are failures. Should they win even more, it's the taxes.

Holy f***.

Nailed it.

 

[GOilers88]

Bragging rights. That’s all it is. The equivalent of a dong-measuring contest. But that’s what competition is, I guess.

Which is absolutely hilarious. Its almost sad enough to take the humor out, but not quite.

 

[Hasbro]

Being a fan of championship winning teams, I fell like the difference between zero and one title is greater than one title and ten.

I’ve always said Super Bowl XXXII is the closest I’ll get to VJ-Day.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

One and Done Champions over years (won't count Colorado yet and Vegas is also TBD, could get another now):

2019 Blues
2018 Capitals
2011 Bruins
2007 Ducks
2006 Hurricanes
2004 Lightning
1999 Stars
1994 Rangers
1989 Flames
1961 Black Hawks

A 1 and Done Champ is actually pretty rare.

The 86 and 93 habs have very little in common with each other. Those are two separate one and done teams.

 

[WarriorofTime]

The 86 and 93 habs have very little in common with each other. Those are two separate one and done teams.

Patrick Roy and Guy Carbonneau

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Patrick Roy and Guy Carbonneau

That's literally it. Every other player was different, as was the coach, as was the management.

May as well say the 09 Wings are a continuation of the 97 Wings because Lidstrom was there for both.

 

[Castle8130]

For how many teams are in the NHL now, it is so hard to win a cup. Every time a new team is added to the league, the odds of winning the cup per team goes down. You have to have an absolute wagon. There have been countless stacked teams over the years that just couldn't get there. With a little bit of luck maybe things change.

Boston Bruins over the last 6 years, Edmonton in the last few, Dallas has been a wagon but can't pull it off, Toronto iced some great teams but had no clutch moments, NYI were close to taking down some of those stacked Tampa teams, and Carolina today has yet to win a cup after being a contender for 7 years

 

[Lou Sassole]

This, plus Ovi’s delay in getting one, plus the sharks’ streak of going deep with no cup- lotta factors. Started in the 2000s, grew in the digital age, this binary thinking.

Yzerman had the same talk about him in the 80's and 90's. Until he won the first in 97.

 

[HugginThePost]

I think a lot of the "team X needs to win Y cups" comes from fans like this - their team is never relevant, won't win anything for a long time, and hasn't won anything for a long time. The last time they had even a top 10 player in the league was some years ago.

So, to cope with that situation, and to deal with the prospect that other teams may actually have a change of winning, they cheer for other teams to fail, and them and their other sad buddies go round and round, cheering more for the failure of others than actually enjoying the sport.

Ooooorrrrrrrr……..

We’ve been listening to Oilers fans clog up every thread with how great their team is. How McDavid is better than Gretzky. How Drai is the second-best player in the league. How the only reason they don’t have multiple cups is Skinner. How, don’t worry, they don’t take the regular season seriously, and they’ll “flip the switch”. How Canada would have won the Gold if Booch and Hyman were there. How Booch is a shoo-in for the Norris, and he was robbed this year.

Plus, as a Flames fan, it is my God-given duty to shit on the Oilers. But I’m sure you’re a much better person than me and never takes a shot at the Flames. A true Renaissance fan. Oh, but wait, that's exactly what you did in your post.

Also, joke's on you, I don't have any buddies!!!

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

So as a Flyers fan born in 1989, I would be over the moon with "just" one Cup in my lifetime, I would treasure it forever. Few recent "one and done" winners feel like they should've won more. STL in '19, it was just their year, and that's fine. Boston in '11? Yeah, maybe the Bergeron/Chara generation should've won more than one. I wouldn't rule out Colorado getting another in the MacKinnon/Landy/Makar era yet. Even Ovechkin, I don't think his window was open as long as people think. A couple years before, sure, definitely not long after. 2018 may have been his last real chance, and good on him, he did it. As much as a powerhouse he was before say 2015, his Caps teams were not complete.

To answer the question though? It's mostly people moving the goalposts. But as far as Colorado now, if they really only win in 2022, yeah, I think "how did they not win more" like the 90s Braves would be fair. McJesus I don't think has more than 3-4 years to get it done.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

So as a Flyers fan born in 1989, I would be over the moon with "just" one Cup in my lifetime, I would treasure it forever. Few recent "one and done" winners feel like they should've won more. STL in '19, it was just their year, and that's fine. Boston in '11? Yeah, maybe the Bergeron/Chara generation should've won more than one. I wouldn't rule out Colorado getting another in the MacKinnon/Landy/Makar era yet. Even Ovechkin, I don't think his window was open as long as people think. A couple years before, sure, definitely not long after. 2018 may have been his last real chance, and good on him, he did it. As much as a powerhouse he was before say 2015, his Caps teams were not complete.

To answer the question though? It's mostly people moving the goalposts. But as far as Colorado now, if they really only win in 2022, yeah, I think "how did they not win more" like the 90s Braves would be fair. McJesus I don't think has more than 3-4 years to get it done.

Colorado's underachievement is crazy because they've only been to 1 Final, in which they won the Cup. The 90s Braves at least made it to 5 World Series, 1 of which they won in 1995. The 2020s Avalanche (their 1st year of real contention was 2019-20) have only been to the Conference Final twice so far (2022 & 2026), just a couple years left of the decade to make more progress, we'll see how long their contention window lasts.

 

[tfwnogf]

Teams with multiple major award (Hart, Art Ross, Lindsay, Norris, Vezina, Selke) winning players usually win Cups with those players in their prime:

Florida (2) - Bobrosky (although he won not with the Panthers), Barkov

Colorado (1) - Mack and Makar

Tampa (2) - Hedman, Vasi, Kucherov

Boston - Thomas, Bergeron

Pens (3) - Crosby, Malkin

Hawks (3) - Kane, Toews, Keith

Wings (1)- Lidstrom, Datsyuk


Other than the Oilers, who else has had multiple major award winning players not win the Cup?

early 2010s Vancouver had multiple major award winners and not win the cup.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

Colorado's underachievement is crazy because they've only been to 1 Final, in which they won the Cup. The 90s Braves at least made it to 5 World Series, 1 of which they won in 1995. The 2020s Avalanche (their 1st year of real contention was 2019-20) have only been to the Conference Final twice so far (2022 & 2026), just a couple years left of the decade to make more progress, we'll see how long their contention window lasts.

They lost the World Series in 1996 and 1999 in addition to the one they won in 1995, but I see your point. This year was the first time they even got to the WCF other than 2022. I at point in this era have loved their goaltending. In this era, they've had Varly, Grubauer, Kuemper, Georgiev, now Blackwood as their starters, Francouz actually came in handy in 2022, Wedgewood overall was solid this year, but these aren't the best names here. Kuemper is a name I guess, but he wasn't even that good in that run. Not that goaltending alone cost them this year.

 

[BoHorvat 53]

This sentiment really started in the mid-2010s when Crosby vs Toews was a legitimate argument in the eyes of a lot, just on the basis of Toews having won 3 Cups to Sid's 1 at the time.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

The Bergeron/Chara/Marchand era Bruins underachieved imo. Should have had multiple cups.

2009: Cup caliber team that loses to an inferior Canes team in game 7 OT at home.

2010: Not only did they Blow a 3-0 series lead. They proceeded to blow a 3-0 game 7 lead on home ice.

2011: Win cup. Steamrolled the Canucks (mostly) in the SCF. So credit there.

2012: Cup caliber team that loses game 7 OT at home to an inferior Caps team.

2013: On the surface, losing a hard fought SCF to the Hawks is acceptable. What isn't acceptable is letting them score 2 goals 17 seconds to lose the cup on your home ice. 17 seconds from game 7...ouch.

2014: Presidents trophy winning team that loses game 7 at home to Montreal. Again, an opponent that was inferior to them.

2019: TB & Wsh were eliminated early. A clear path to the cup in sight. You cannot lose three times on home ice. Including a game 7 stinker. That is a team you need to beat. It wasn't the 2010's Hawks.

2023: Blow a 3-1 series lead to Florida. Most points in NHL history. Lose yet another game 7 in OT...on home ice.

They overachieved their talent level honestly.

 

[Realgud]

They overachieved their talent level honestly.

Their only cup is on the back of an all-time performance by Thomas. That team just wasn't that good.

 

[GrkFlyersFan]

Their only cup is on the back of an all-time performance by Thomas. That team just wasn't that good.

They should've been able to beat STL in 2019. 2013 they were overmatched.