When did the Habs drafting/development turn the corner?

[bentheprop]

Drafting was never the issue... Timmins took undeserved flack because of MB's abysmal player development approach.

Things turned the minute MB was let go, and accelerates as the Habs leadership started building proper hockey ops.

I picked other because this is the proper answer. In spite of any good trades he made MB was pretty incompetent in so many other aspects.

 

[Chili]

The drafting from 2008 forward yielded so few players, they are still paying for it. In fairness, it did start to improve the last few years of the last regime.

They now have a quantity of good young players in the system which is right out of Frank Selke's manual. Put them together and with the internal competition let them decide who the future Habs will be. It's nice to see the AHL team finally contributing more players to the big team.

 

[Habs]

edit - i was angry for no reason

 

[26Mats]

Much has been written about how Habs drafting and development was subpar in the period 2008-2016 or so. It seems to be better lately, when would you say that the tide began turning and why?

2016: Sergachev.

Why didn't you include that year in the poll?

 

[26Mats]

Probably with Hughes but I feel this poll is way too early. Wait 3 years, see how Slafkovsky/Reinbacher/other 1sts are doing, then ask this

We already see Sergachev, Caufield, Guhle, Romanov, and many others starting in 2016. It's not too early for me.

 

[vokiel]

They did not. You'll need to wait for the GM to be swapped to evaluate this. For instance, we can now look at the Bergevin years and cleanly say they didn't do anything better than Gainey did. Gainey years had far better development imho.

 

[Gillings]

What corner has it turned?

- 40 years of drafting good NHL players, lacking star power.
- Just using Timmins time as head scout, so from 2003. Not a single player drafted/developed has had a 70 point season.
- This organization still needs above average goaltending to mask its obvious lack of talent.

Same shit different day afaiac.

I think Montreal is loaded with star talent. I’m not sure people want to play there?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Until those promising players become something and something of importance in the NHL they haven't

 

[Just this once]

I said none of the above for different reasons.

For the drafting, 2007 was an exceptional year, so it's an outlier, I am not sure the period 2008-2016 was that abysmal, but it was clearly poorer.

We know the reasons for that. Bergevin more or less was drafting the first round on need and size. So he would ask "what is the best tall and gritty defenseman, or center this year?". Then he would trade the second pick for some player usually.

So the first picks failed, and not surprisingly, not much came up of three and higher because it rarely does, but there were a few exceptions and overall in the circumstances, the draft was pretty decent. What's peculiar is nobody made it into the farm. Either they made it in the NHL or they were not in the picture, so development was not existent.

There is one exception, Sergachev in 2016 who was drafted to trade. KK year was a good year and it seems Bergevin stopped trading out seconds the year before in 2017, but collecting them because he was in "retool" mode which was a variation of "the plan". So that means more players and a possibility of development.

I can't say it turned a corner, we know 2018 was a good year, 2019 is harder to tell who makes it, but Caufield and Harris already make it a good year as well. Now clearly they are not the typical draft because Caufield is small so there was a shift there in focus.

It's too early to tell for the other years, but it looks good. Maybe they now take into account things like skating ability or offensive ability more seriously. Still there is not a lot of forwards that look great except Mesar, maybe Roy.

So I am not sure about whether things really have changed. They still tend to draft big players with character and hope they will get good offensively. It's what the last two first round picks suggest, so I am not ready to claim there is a deep change, it could just be the luck of the draw, or some scout some year making a good pitch for a guy like Caufield, because he is the only true outlier and his talent was totally obvious.

As far as development, I can't tell. It's not like the young players spent much time in the AHL, so as far as I can tell, the farm team is not really doing the work it should be doing. It seems more like a place where the extras are put for roster reasons, not a place where you develop the future per say, but I could be wrong. We will see in a couple years if it becomes what it used to be and should be.

In other words, I don't see any drastic change right now to the past. Hughes still exchange good draft picks for players, seen to favor size and some sort of attitude to life and general good humor. He tends to think it's fine to rush players without development and it does not seem to be the actual focus of the AHL team to do that. There is no doubt there is more drafted players that make the team though, but I can't totally explain it outside of the trading of picks thing.

 

[WeThreeKings]

As soon as Bergevin was fired.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Until those promising players become something and something of importance in the NHL they haven't

No. They have turned the corner and are headed in the right direction. Now the question is will they reach their destination.

 

[Anardil]

I think Montreal is loaded with star talent. I’m not sure people want to play there?

You obviously have a different definition of what qualifies as a star talent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

TT had little to draft with for much of the decade. Definitely made some mistakes. But he picked some players that should’ve done better.

The turning point came when we fired Bergevin and started developing players properly. Now all of a sudden TT’s late picks. Are panning out. Exactly as I predicted they would years ago. Our drafting may not have been the best but it was never really the problem.

And for what it’s worth I think 2022 will be our best draft since 2007.

 

[Gillings]

You obviously have a different definition of what qualifies as a star talent.

No, I just didn’t explain my self enough because I was at the bar and just gave up on trying to express my opinion on why Montreal never has those star star players.

It’s not that we don’t have players that couldn’t be stars but for some reason they just never break out or they are injury prone etc.

To me, Evans is a prime example of a player that can do everything. Deke, shoot, pass, block, check, skate.. at times he does everything just as well as anyone else but for some reason just doesnt take that next step.

 

[Gillings]

I said none of the above for different reasons.

For the drafting, 2007 was an exceptional year, so it's an outlier, I am not sure the period 2008-2016 was that abysmal, but it was clearly poorer.

We know the reasons for that. Bergevin more or less was drafting the first round on need and size. So he would ask "what is the best tall and gritty defenseman, or center this year?". Then he would trade the second pick for some player usually.

So the first picks failed, and not surprisingly, not much came up of three and higher because it rarely does, but there were a few exceptions and overall in the circumstances, the draft was pretty decent. What's peculiar is nobody made it into the farm. Either they made it in the NHL or they were not in the picture, so development was not existent.

There is one exception, Sergachev in 2016 who was drafted to trade. KK year was a good year and it seems Bergevin stopped trading out seconds the year before in 2017, but collecting them because he was in "retool" mode which was a variation of "the plan". So that means more players and a possibility of development.

I can't say it turned a corner, we know 2018 was a good year, 2019 is harder to tell who makes it, but Caufield and Harris already make it a good year as well. Now clearly they are not the typical draft because Caufield is small so there was a shift there in focus.

It's too early to tell for the other years, but it looks good. Maybe they now take into account things like skating ability or offensive ability more seriously. Still there is not a lot of forwards that look great except Mesar, maybe Roy.

So I am not sure about whether things really have changed. They still tend to draft big players with character and hope they will get good offensively. It's what the last two first round picks suggest, so I am not ready to claim there is a deep change, it could just be the luck of the draw, or some scout some year making a good pitch for a guy like Caufield, because he is the only true outlier and his talent was totally obvious.

As far as development, I can't tell. It's not like the young players spent much time in the AHL, so as far as I can tell, the farm team is not really doing the work it should be doing. It seems more like a place where the extras are put for roster reasons, not a place where you develop the future per say, but I could be wrong. We will see in a couple years if it becomes what it used to be and should be.

In other words, I don't see any drastic change right now to the past. Hughes still exchange good draft picks for players, seen to favor size and some sort of attitude to life and general good humor. He tends to think it's fine to rush players without development and it does not seem to be the actual focus of the AHL team to do that. There is no doubt there is more drafted players that make the team though, but I can't totally explain it outside of the trading of picks thing.

I only disagree, respectfully, to the idea of Hughes not leaving our prospects in their respective leagues to develop.

He has brought up Slafkovsky early in my opinion because he was 1OA among other “business” reasons. But everyone else he has let simmer in their leagues besides maybe Guhle.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

When Bergevin started acquiring more draft picks by trading draft picks

 

[Big Lurk]

We have drafted zero elite players since Carey Price

Nothing in the pipeline that has a shot at changing that

I guess I just have higher expectations from multiple top 5 picks

We did have a Norris winning d-man...
But I see your point

 

[RealityBytes]

I think Montreal is loaded with star talent. I’m not sure people want to play there?

More like lots of medium talent, but they only dress 18 skaters. Anyone on the team above the 18 doesn't count or add for anything except as a replacement for the top 18, and then there is no plus gain when replacing one for one.

 

[Gillings]

More like lots of medium talent, but they only dress 18 skaters. Anyone on the team above the 18 doesn't count or add for anything except as a replacement for the top 18, and then there is no plus gain when replacing one for one.

Haha damn, got me!


I’d like to apologize to all the people on behalf of the White House. My foolishness continues to show through.

 

[Chili]

It still is sub par

How many drafted players are part of the team as of today?

Caulfield
Evans
Gallagher
Harvey-Pinard
Pezzetta
Roy
Slavkovsky
Ylonen
Guhle
Harris
Struble
Xhekaj (ofa)
Primeau

12 total (or 13 if Xhekaj is added) which quantity wise is high compared with the league numbers I ran on the opening rosters back in October (linked below). It's the quality, which based on their young overall age remains to be seen.

Who found the talent on NHL Rosters?

Who drafted or originally signed the players on the 2022-23 NHL rosters? And how many of those players were with their original drafting/signing team? To explain the numbers, using Anaheim, 29 players they drafted or originally signed made opening rosters. The breakdown of the 29 players was 15...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Just this once]

I only disagree, respectfully, to the idea of Hughes not leaving our prospects in their respective leagues to develop.

He has brought up Slafkovsky early in my opinion because he was 1OA among other “business” reasons. But everyone else he has let simmer in their leagues besides maybe Guhle.

It's still a big one, reason why I can't say things have changed. Slafkovski was clearly not ready for the NHL in his first season. Even St-Louis admitted in the beginning of this season he now was better in cardio so now could take bigger minutes. It's the type of things I expect a team that focuses on development to take seriously. Don't bring them up to play on a fourth line. And if they can take minutes and are lost, then send them to the AHL so they can get up to speed.

I also didn't like how Mesar was handled. Bring him from Europe to play in junior. See an alternative they could have done is keep both in Europe so they can keep playing together and bring them up at the same time. It's what the Lightning did with some of their players when they won the cup. It's the type of things I would like to see.

Right now it seems more roster dependent than a focus on the player, that's what it looks to me, and it's the same we have seen in the Bergevin era. They literally said they did not take Michkov because they would not have as much control over his development, which means they could not rush him up.

Now I do like what they did with Roy. Take your time, give him a chance when there are some injuries, probably send him down after the need is over. Same with some others like Mailloux. Xhekaj, I don't like. He got demoted for no reason after having started on the roster last year. So it's those things, I am on the fence on what to think about. Some are good, some not. I would not say for sure I know they are different. All those things Bergevin did. He sent back Suzuki in junior then rushed KK.

 

[Hickflyer]

when they fired HuGo , thats when.

 

[Gillings]

It's still a big one, reason why I can't say things have changed. Slafkovski was clearly not ready for the NHL in his first season. Even St-Louis admitted in the beginning of this season he now was better in cardio so now could take bigger minutes. It's the type of things I expect a team that focuses on development to take seriously. Don't bring them up to play on a fourth line. And if they can take minutes and are lost, then send them to the AHL so they can get up to speed.

I also didn't like how Mesar was handled. Bring him from Europe to play in junior. See an alternative they could have done is keep both in Europe so they can keep playing together and bring them up at the same time. It's what the Lightning did with some of their players when they won the cup. It's the type of things I would like to see.

Right now it seems more roster dependent than a focus on the player, that's what it looks to me, and it's the same we have seen in the Bergevin era. They literally said they did not take Michkov because they would not have as much control over his development, which means they could not rush him up.

Now I do like what they did with Roy. Take your time, give him a chance when there are some injuries, probably send him down after the need is over. Same with some others like Mailloux. Xhekaj, I don't like. He got demoted for no reason after having started on the roster last year. So it's those things, I am on the fence on what to think about. Some are good, some not. I would not say for sure I know they are different. All those things Bergevin did. He sent back Suzuki in junior then rushed KK.

He rushed KK because he was never the pick to begin with. He never should have drafted KK. It was a business move and I wouldn’t doubt if Marc tried selling KK the moment he drafted him. For something more than what he was.

 

[Guess]

I put other because I think that development is improving with the new regime but so sure about drafting, we've had more picks is all. Draft team still risk averse, our current draft directors don't have good track records and we're accumulating an unhealthy balance of prospects which may put us at a disadvantage when trying to trade .

 

[Guess]

I think Montreal is loaded with star talent. I’m not sure people want to play there?

We don't have any stars on the team right now.. Maybe one of them could become in the future, but definitely not something we should expect..