Nope. The best part of Datsyuk's defense is his offense.
Is the best part of his offense his defense?
Yep.
And Dan Cleary, looking like a silly old man in overtime the other night when Hossa skated up behind him and stole the puck in the Detroit end...
How does a coach see that and still trust the guy?
MINDBOGGLING
possibly this?
This is fantastic and I am guessing is about to get a lot of run around these parts.
we need to look at scoring chances for/against, shots for/against, etc for datsyuk's lines for each game over last several games.Tatar would bring more skill, but I'm not sold that translates into more effectiveness. Same with Nyquist. A big part of it is that they're rookies, and rookies just don't typically produce much. Datsyuk, Franzen, Flip, and Hudler all put up around 10-14 goals in their rookie seasons (Z, as always it seems, was the big outlier at 22 - and he was a Calder finalist). I think expectations for the kid are just out of line with what he'd actually bring to Datsyuk's line. Put the lack of depth with the lack of experience with the insanely hard match-ups, and it's a recipe for mediocrity.
And this isn't to say I like the Abs-Dats-Cleary thing. It's ugly to watch, but it effectively nullifies the other team's top line and Datsyuk makes it dangerous. Meanwhile, Tatar makes our third line dangerous. I think the bit about Z's line disappearing, as well as our horrible PP, is what's really killing. It's obviously our most skilled line, but they're not consistently producing.
If Tatar gets bumped up to Dats' line, I won't complain, and I'll hope for the best. At the same time, I expect what we see from it now - some flashes of dangerousness (and maybe a goal, if we're a bit lucky), but a lot of Datsyuk carrying things and that line not screwing up. But I think our "third" line would be noticeably worse.
I just wish this team would get healthy and we can start seeing some better hockey.
that is the basic idea of puck possession that DRW have relied on for almost 20 years.If Datsyuk has the puck, the other team has no offense. As one of the best puck possession guys in the world, that's how he does most of his defense.
There are a lot of ways to defend.Blocking shots, back checking, intercepting passes, takeaways, taking away passing lanes. But some of those ways, while very effective, are no good for transition into offense. You take away a lane, you take away options, but that doesn't give you the puck. Same with blocking shots.
Datsyuk gets the puck back. And when he gets it, he rarely loses it. That's his defense. Even just this year he has 3-4 goals/assists from pure takeaways. Remember his shorty pass to Cleary? Pure takeaway. Or Nashville? Takeaway and wraparound to score. He's a pick possessing wizard.
Looks like Babs wants Abby and Cleary in the top 6.
Why not split them up.
Abby Zetterberg Brunner
Cleary Datsyuk Franzen
Z and Brunner do what they do and Datsyuk can spend 20 minutes a night feeding Franzen gifts all night.
earlier this decade i was watching datsyuk and it was fun. but since this season its really painful to watch. only the highlight vs nashville is what i can remember.
just send cleary and abdelkader to somewhere. doesnt matter where. i would even accept a cap penalty to get rid of them.
Someone mentioned an interesting point on Reddit yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.
"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.
Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."
Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...
Uh OH.... don't look now, but more logic seeping into the thread.
Winger98 and Bench have done a very good job of describing what is going on in terms of lines and match-ups. Some people just don't want to see it.
It is one thing if the critics don't agree that the 8 13 11 line is the best way to go right now. It is quite another to suggest that Babcock is "incompetent" for sticking with it and suggesting it is not working.
The record clearly indicates that it is working.
Yeah. Datsyuk needs a couple crappy wingers to play defensive hockey.
Great logic
Someone mentioned an interesting point on Reddit yesterday that basically said that Babs has setup Datsyuk's line as a shutdown line to the best offensive lines of the opposing team.
"Babcocks post game pretty much sums up why cleary and abby are with datsyuk despite their lack of points. He said he is using datsyuks like as a shutdown line against top lines neutralizing the oppositions best players. He is not relying on it for offense, he is relying on it to make sure other teams dont score. That sounds pretty Datsyukian to me. Maybe that is why the wings GA has been around 1.2 over the last 7 or 8 games and the other teams top guys cant manage to score on us. If you drag your mind away from the offense (only 1/2 of hockey) and look at the defense you see that a abby-pav-cleary line is an incredibly strong defensive unit.
Perhaps Babcock had a chat with Datsyuk in the last month about what its going to take to win games. Being the player that Datsyuk has been for the last 11+ years im sure he was more than willing to sacrifice the points to make sure they win games. Instead of playing with Tatar who would produce more points than abby/cleary but will give up more defensively."
Pretty good point, I'd say. Points are great from shutdown units, but if we can keep their team from scoring, while getting production from a good 1st and 3rd line...
i mentioned days ago that datsyuk is being used in a checking role, but he has been used in a checking role often since '07, while still being a star scorer. he was checking scoring lines when he played with homer, who was one of the worst ES players in the NHL.
same for zetterberg
datsyuk's and zetterberg's ability to check opponents effectively and still score a lot is what makes them special. neither have needed to play with grinders to accomplish it before.