Conspiracy Theorist
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WJC: Whats wrong with Sweden?
- Thread starter Eye of Ra
- Start date
ManWithNoName
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Agree about the Swedish media, but Wikegård is the biggest mouth breather we have. He always knows best but have accomplished f*** all. Perfect example of ”mycket snack, lite verkstad”.
Svedu
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I've heard that if you compare finns to swedes in companies some say swedes are better at "Rulla tummarna och ta en fikarast och surra massa irrelevant nonsens", while finns are a bit more straight forward and not as big on small talk like their neighbors. Regarding winning this could actually be a cultural thing? Like getting things done?
You know, those things swedes sometimes call mellanmjök? It's like "Det måste hela tiden vara lite god stämning", ingen vill vara "boven" och slopa skitsnacket och prata allvar och våga vara kontroversiell. This is a very cultural swedish thing for me. Att försöka ducka. "Det löser sig, något eller någon annan lär lösa det". Am i totally wrong here?
Grönborg also lite hårdare but I'm not a big fan of his. He got clearly outcoached by Jalonen plenty of times. Won once but often had the very best players arriving to play the WC's. Also lost with them a couple of times, bit too many imho. When compared to other nations rosters in those WC's.
You know, those things swedes sometimes call mellanmjök? It's like "Det måste hela tiden vara lite god stämning", ingen vill vara "boven" och slopa skitsnacket och prata allvar och våga vara kontroversiell. This is a very cultural swedish thing for me. Att försöka ducka. "Det löser sig, något eller någon annan lär lösa det". Am i totally wrong here?
Well, he did win with Djurgården back in the days. Never coached the nationals. I get your point though. But he was a bit like Rönnberg as coach. "Hårdnackad" compared to others.
Grönborg also lite hårdare but I'm not a big fan of his. He got clearly outcoached by Jalonen plenty of times. Won once but often had the very best players arriving to play the WC's. Also lost with them a couple of times, bit too many imho. When compared to other nations rosters in those WC's.
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Svedu
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Well, that's the thing. They perform during group stages and win few medals and even fewer finals.
Canada do win gold like at least every third year or so, if not more at times.
Yes, you are definitely right. I think it's the right thing to do up to a certain age, but then something needs to happen.
At the same time I do believe we lose tons of talent that are not selected to play tv-pucken because of size or late development.
There is definitely something like this in the company & university world, outside sports. It seems in Sweden there are literally endless and often frustrating discussions, committees etc. on pretty much everything. Whereas in Finland there is maybe less of that and a bit more of 'Just f***ing do it, enough talk!'
Yozhik v tumane
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Just not the most talented crop this year. Axel Sandin-Pellikka the only high-end prospect, really. Weak goaltending, no real stand-out forwards.
Yeah but you kinda need those guys who provokes the coaches and the system so things aren’t static. Sweden hasn’t had that for quite a while and far too little evolution of the development system has been the result.
ManWithNoName
Unregistered User
When did he win an SM-guld with Djurgården?
Even if that was the case, which I doubt, he’s 61 years old and spent most of his life on tv telling others how they should have done it. He’s a fraud and has been called out multiple times but somehow he manages to stay relevant. If he was the real deal, he would have been hired as the coach of one of our national teams a long time ago.
The problem in Swedish football is the wokeism that has spread like a cancer. Up until the age of 13, they don’t count goals during the games. Why? Because they don’t want the players to be sad if they’re losing. Not sure if it’s the same in hockey but that could be a contributing factor.
It’s tough to compare. The US has an inherent advantage at the U18’s as they have their team together for TWO YEARS, leading up to that tournament. Canada dominates Hlinka/Gretzky just because we send our best team, whereas the other countries don’t necessarily do that for a non-IIHF tournament.
Can you explain what this means?
You seem to be missing some badly needed context, so let me explain. Despite being one of just 3-4 teams every year that can legitimately challenge for gold, Sweden has one just TWO in an astounding 49 years of this tournament. Every year they don’t win it all despite having one of the best rosters, and best preliminary round records, the hole deepens. We are trying to figure out why.
I believe Sweden has lost 5 group stage games post the '07 tournament. They have 1 gold medal in the 18 tournaments over that span.
I don't have a good explanation for it, but that's unbelievable.
I don't have a good explanation for it, but that's unbelievable.
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WarriorofTime
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Part of that is they had an 11 year period in the late 90/00s where they won zero medals of any kind. Perhaps Swedes can better explain what was going on then because it’s not like those birth years were a lost generation. It would have covered the birth years of many of the players that participated in the 2006 Olympics that Sweden won.
Svedu
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With all the respect, those coaches for your national teams hasn't been that impressive during the years and they have been heavily criticized by swedes themselves. Mårts wasn't that popular. Grönborg was decent at tops. Montén was almost even hated by the Swedes in here.
During two decades it feels like Rönnberg is the only one who could hold his head high where the consensus is that he was more than decent, even good. That's one out of I don't know, say 5,6,7, coaches. With Hävelid included.
I checked it out, he lost in the last game against Färjestad in OT. So they won a silver with him as a coach. Not the best perhaps, but not nothing either.
At the same time, he wanted to focus on his family and is a charismatic person, good or bad. But didn't want to move around and could still maintain his career being relevant somehow so I can't just dislike the guy.
But I can feel that Sweden needs personalities like Renberg and perhaps Rönnberg amongst their youth nationals.
Why a similar character like Renberg? He speaks the truth. Doesn't feel sorry, he gets pissed. What he doesn't do is "Linda in allt". And I do think his way of reasoning is straight forward. His analytics were pretty good most of the time. And he had that somewhat constructive grumpiness aura which can be good for youngsters. Inspiring and respectable.
I think your guys could you someone who spanks their asses a bit. Who reminds of Renbergs character. Foppa was a bit similar in character.
That's right. I had forgotten about that era. My understanding is that they had decided that they had gotten too locked into systems play and needed to get back to emphasizing skill again. At least they worked their way out of that funk. That was brutal!
OilersFanatics505
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Svedu
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I came up with a pseudo-explanation lol. Listen me out:
Swedes have rarely had any enemies. Perhaps a bit more privileged than others but that's questionable. But they have a history of being diplomatic both in politics and in general. They rarely "Hate" anyone.
They don't like losing against finns but they still call them little brothers even if they've not been better for years. That's taking things with ease imo.
Finns on the other hand (not me) but many, "Hate" losing against swedes and Russians. Literally hate. It's like the world goes under.
Canadians and Americans hate each other in hockey. Both of them hate the Russians and it's pretty mutual from the Russians.
Russians dislike the Finns and hate the amerikanskijs (kidding) and Canadians.
I do believe the Czechs play with the heart on their sleeves against Russia? I've also heard that thing Czechs even like it and perform better when it matters the most, at least my neighbor said that lol.
Swedes have rarely had any enemies. Perhaps a bit more privileged than others but that's questionable. But they have a history of being diplomatic both in politics and in general. They rarely "Hate" anyone.
They don't like losing against finns but they still call them little brothers even if they've not been better for years. That's taking things with ease imo.
Finns on the other hand (not me) but many, "Hate" losing against swedes and Russians. Literally hate. It's like the world goes under.
Canadians and Americans hate each other in hockey. Both of them hate the Russians and it's pretty mutual from the Russians.
Russians dislike the Finns and hate the amerikanskijs (kidding) and Canadians.
I do believe the Czechs play with the heart on their sleeves against Russia? I've also heard that thing Czechs even like it and perform better when it matters the most, at least my neighbor said that lol.
Yeah but they've had good goalies in the past. Wallstedt, Gustavsson, Lehner, Markström, Ersson and others.
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I think one challenge for them in these tournaments is that they often lack adversity in the earlier games.
For whatever reason, it seems like every year they blow through the round robin and QFs no problem (they've played for a medal now in 17 of the last 19 tournaments), so when the intensity picks up in the medal rounds, they aren't really battle tested.
This year was another example. They spent a total of like 3 mins trailing in their first 5 games, and were even starting to toy with Latvia when they up 3-0 and thought the game was over (which very nearly cost them).
Then they ran into real adversity vs Finland and weren't battle tested enough to weather it.
Since 2007:
6 4th place
3 bronze
6 silver
1 gold
17 wins 2 losses in QFs
11 wins 22 losses in SFs and medal games.
Brutal.
For whatever reason, it seems like every year they blow through the round robin and QFs no problem (they've played for a medal now in 17 of the last 19 tournaments), so when the intensity picks up in the medal rounds, they aren't really battle tested.
This year was another example. They spent a total of like 3 mins trailing in their first 5 games, and were even starting to toy with Latvia when they up 3-0 and thought the game was over (which very nearly cost them).
Then they ran into real adversity vs Finland and weren't battle tested enough to weather it.
Since 2007:
6 4th place
3 bronze
6 silver
1 gold
17 wins 2 losses in QFs
11 wins 22 losses in SFs and medal games.
Brutal.
wgknestrick
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They had the weakest roster in the most important position (GK) of the top 4 teams. Sounds like a recipe for what they got to me if I've ever seen it. It's hard to coach around a player who plays 60min/game for your team.
It's not like they were miles better in any other area F/D to compensate for this weakness on a consistent basis against the good teams.
It's not like they were miles better in any other area F/D to compensate for this weakness on a consistent basis against the good teams.
Quite literally they mean they think of themselves as mediocre.
This is all tied back to jante mentality.
These are the ten rules of jante copied from Wikipedia
- You're not to think you are anything special.
- You're not to think you are as good as weare.
- You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
- You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
- You're not to think you know more than we do.
- You're not to think you are more important than we are.
- You're not to think you are good at anything.
- You're not to laugh at us.
- You're not to think anyone cares about you.
- You're not to think you can teach usanything.
wgknestrick
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Its not the fact that US's team was "together", but that they had so many with "the quality" to make the team as under-agers last year.
A returning team of scrubs is just that.
No, you don't understand. The US team is LITERALLY together for two years. They play as a club team together at the U17 level, and then that roster moves up to play together all year as a U18 club team. They play in the USHL and play some College teams as well. Their U18 tournament is their graduation, essentially. Winning it is a huge deal to them.
