WJC: Whats wrong with Sweden?
- Thread starter Eye of Ra
- Start date
theslatcher
Registered User
It's not really those kind of teams that do that. It's the Luleå's and Frölunda's of the world. Hopefully JIW can escape Bulan.
Ivar seems to have made it clear to Frölunda to stop being shits or he goes west.
Shocker
Registered User
- Dec 20, 2019
- 2,120
- 3,878
Surprising thread by the OP, last i remember they were saying Tahiti and Uzbekistan were better than Sweden, what's wrong in losing to a powerhouse like Finland?
Bruce Granville
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2014
- 6,029
- 4,772
It‘s a hot beverage, preferably consumed in January among Swedish ice hockey connaisseurs and the Royal family.
Choc shocking choke king…
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
I don't know but it is weird definitely, to do well both at U18 and at adult level but not really at the U20 level. The pattern seems now so consistent that it might hint at a structural/organizational flaw or problem.
It seems almost like the Finnish men's team in the 70ies and 80ies: getting pretty nicely up there but nearly always falling flat just before the finish line (no pun intended).
One thing could be that they seem to be lacking the right kind of spunk, straight forwardness or "rudeness" in the play. Too much emphasis on possession it seems. Possession does not win games, no matter how beautiful or dominant it is, goals do.
It seems almost like the Finnish men's team in the 70ies and 80ies: getting pretty nicely up there but nearly always falling flat just before the finish line (no pun intended).
One thing could be that they seem to be lacking the right kind of spunk, straight forwardness or "rudeness" in the play. Too much emphasis on possession it seems. Possession does not win games, no matter how beautiful or dominant it is, goals do.
FinPanda
Barkov Stanley cup champ!
Nothing wrong with them, Sweden is doing fine
I feel this, so many great Swedish generations wasted to poor coaching. Players have the skill but it seems its hard to find a Swedish coach who is really good.
WarriorofTime
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2010
- 32,247
- 21,796
swissdude
Registered User
- May 18, 2019
- 473
- 467
I guess he won't give up his new job for the U20, he signed with Fribourg-Göttéron in NL for next season....
It's mainly in the organisation/coaching. Sweden wants to "educate" their own coaches inside the closed walls of swehockey and then use them in the national team. If you get a foot in or know the right people, you're a shoe in. No talent needed. This goes on year after year and is not only in the hockey federation.
We know this. The question is why? It’s honestly such a baffling question. Two gold medals in half a century! New kids every year. People blame the coaches, but how many different coaches have there been? The only guy more perplexed than me is Gord Miller, who spends a decent percentage of the broadcast of any Sweden game trying to puzzle it out.
Here’s my question for the Swedish guys on this board; How much does the Swedish media bring this up with the players? Are they putting on more pressure by talking about it all the time? Has it become a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Swedish media would never dare to question anything. Wikegård brought up the problem with Thelin's bad season in the studio but it was more or less silenced and they praised Thelin a bit more to cover up.
Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
- 2,855
- 1,880
And Wahlberg stated that Wikegård isn't the coach and should focus on Djurgården, lol. Pretty cocky statement but I guess he tried to show compassion and be loyal.
Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
- 2,855
- 1,880
In all honesty. Swedes themselves always picture themselves as favorites against finns. At least in media. There is quite the pressure. Loob was so sure they would beat us before the game.
Jonas Andersson always underrates Finland in the beginning of the tournament and then gets surprised every second year. I mean it's quite mind baffling just that.
Renberg, whom I love, never thought highly of the finns during the WJC's when he was a part of the SVT studio ( I miss him). Even if he recognized and praised the senior team and Jalonens success and achievements. The juniors never got the same confirmation.
Härenstam is always very detailed and respects all opponents but even he tends to claim Sweden should win and be favorites against Finland and so on. The same story almost every year.
But against the NA teams they never have the same belief during the WJC's, I mean never. Not even this year would they claim being favorites against a surprisingly weak Canadian team. It's a thing mainly against the finns.
Oh! I forgot the most important thing. They never bring up "Meidän peli" or anything likely like the finns do. They just focus on stats and individuals and feel comfortable having the best European talent, that's the impression I've got.
And when doing so, not focusing on your own game... They seem to be a bit more lost than say finns and Czechs sometimes, at least against the NA teams.
Funny side note is that I remember when Sweden had a golden generation amongst men with Foppa, Lidas, Sudden and others. They also had a very specific game back then. They always dragged down the tempo and played their own game. Very calculated and much puck possession. Of course very talented individuals back then but they somehow seem to have forgot their own road to success during those days.
Last edited:
Predatore
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 7,390
- 481
I think SVT studio brought up an interesting point post game when it comes to the development of Swedish players - that all Swedish players are more or less good at everything, but no one is exceptional at anything. Swedish youth coaches teach players to handle all aspects of the game equally well and be as all-round as possible.
But that takes the pride out of being a world-class forechecker, a world-class net front presence (Tomas Holmström) and the same when it comes to pure snipers etc.
While I am not sure it would matter in a random overtime game like yesterday’s, I do think they have a point. 90% of the Swedish forwards could basically be described as ”responsible two-way forward, capable skater with decent puck skills”.
Only Unger Sörum (world-class iq/playmaking at this level) and Victor Eklund (exceptional motor and play along the boards) stand out. Some other forwards are slightly above average in certain areas, but few are of a ”different breed”.
But that takes the pride out of being a world-class forechecker, a world-class net front presence (Tomas Holmström) and the same when it comes to pure snipers etc.
While I am not sure it would matter in a random overtime game like yesterday’s, I do think they have a point. 90% of the Swedish forwards could basically be described as ”responsible two-way forward, capable skater with decent puck skills”.
Only Unger Sörum (world-class iq/playmaking at this level) and Victor Eklund (exceptional motor and play along the boards) stand out. Some other forwards are slightly above average in certain areas, but few are of a ”different breed”.
the fact is, you're doing a fantastic job. Finland was doing better
seriously though, team sweden was a really good team, and the error margin is quite huge cause its elimination game type of thing, not a best of seven series, which I think Swe could have won.
Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
- 2,855
- 1,880
Also swedes try to mimic the NA teams the most of all European teams. But it's not all good. Because they rarely have 9-12 forwards with the same skating ability as the NA teams.
And they rarely seem to have the answers as a team against them. Not more often than say the Czechs nor the Finns. This while many consider them having better players...
So perhaps the Swedes play more naive than other european countries but still lack enough depth and skating ability, sometimes even the needed skill compared to the NA teams and especially amongst forwards.
I mean this year Granberg was good but skill wise it was Eklund and Sörum looking really good but the depth? Sure, Edstrom was good as well and perhaps Wahlberg decent but nothing better than the Czechs or finns. And not even at the same level or near Dvorsky nor Pekarcik after seeing Finns play them both.
I get the impression Swedes admire the NA teams so much and mostly the US so they just try to mimic them and seem to somewhere along they way forget that they don't have the same depth or perhaps even talent level to play similar or the same way of hockey. DO not forget I'm not speaking about D's now. That's not Swedens problem. It's their system, forward depth- in relation to how they want to play at least.
Also, group stage kind of hockey is more similar to season way of hockey. Playoffs will always be another story.
Perhaps Swedes lack the ability to play cynical during their junior years? Perhaps they focus on their skill a bit too much?
And they rarely seem to have the answers as a team against them. Not more often than say the Czechs nor the Finns. This while many consider them having better players...
So perhaps the Swedes play more naive than other european countries but still lack enough depth and skating ability, sometimes even the needed skill compared to the NA teams and especially amongst forwards.
I mean this year Granberg was good but skill wise it was Eklund and Sörum looking really good but the depth? Sure, Edstrom was good as well and perhaps Wahlberg decent but nothing better than the Czechs or finns. And not even at the same level or near Dvorsky nor Pekarcik after seeing Finns play them both.
I get the impression Swedes admire the NA teams so much and mostly the US so they just try to mimic them and seem to somewhere along they way forget that they don't have the same depth or perhaps even talent level to play similar or the same way of hockey. DO not forget I'm not speaking about D's now. That's not Swedens problem. It's their system, forward depth- in relation to how they want to play at least.
Also, group stage kind of hockey is more similar to season way of hockey. Playoffs will always be another story.
Perhaps Swedes lack the ability to play cynical during their junior years? Perhaps they focus on their skill a bit too much?
Last edited:
Eye of Ra
Grandmaster General of the International boards
We have plenty of silver and bronze. But few golds.
Svedu
Registered User
- Apr 23, 2019
- 2,855
- 1,880
They get more mature and tactical aware. Perhaps then it's not all about skill, playing more like adults and pro's. I mean the difference between the NA teams and European teams seem to be bigger amongst u18 than u20?
Sweden often have talent but perhaps they tend to overestimate their talent level a bit? And play more naive kind of hockey? Praising themselves being more fun to watch than say... Finland? But again, not having the same depth as the NA teams and tactically doing themselves a disfavor. Could that be a thing? Not being as educated or aware tactically?
Last edited:
The tourney is short. What ever it is the coaches cant be expected to unlearn something these players have been taught their entire existensen by sociatal norms.
I think you left out the most interesting part, the "mellanmjölk" mentallity. They were alluding to this being the underlying reason why we do not have role players or more FUS level players.
