Miro4Norris
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- Jan 24, 2021
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OK, and he led in the overall points more times, sometimes outstandingly. But did he ever had a big difference in 5v5 points to his peers?
What's wrong with Connor McDavid this season? Lowest PPG and GPG output in ~7-8 years for him
- Thread starter bobholly39
- Start date
NotNotALeafsFan
Registered User
On pace for 115 points in a “down” season.
McJesus is absolutely incredible.
McJesus is absolutely incredible.
jigglysquishy
Registered User
His 2017-18 lead in EVP is the most dominant (27.3%) since Gretzky.
Beendair Donedat
You sold a dead bird to a blind kid????
His back is probably sore from carrying the Oilers this past decade.
He’s the best hockey player in the world, playing through some injuries on a team with AHL level goaltending, terrible defense and no secondary scoring.
He’s about the furthest thing from being an issue in Edmonton.
He’s the best hockey player in the world, playing through some injuries on a team with AHL level goaltending, terrible defense and no secondary scoring.
He’s about the furthest thing from being an issue in Edmonton.
Miro4Norris
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Nice. Just didnt remember that to ever happen because last years when he has been leading in points, i think 5v5 points have still been at the same level with other stars
Over the past 5 seasons, McD is first in ESP and third in ESG, what would outstanding mean for you?
Better than first?
jigglysquishy
Registered User
We saw him turn it on last year in the playoffs.
His 25 EVP was third highest of all time.
Osakahaus
Chillin' on Fuji
- May 28, 2021
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WalterLundy
Registered User
You do realize your false god in your profile pic has just one season above 110 points right? Crosby’s 2015 and 2016 regular seasons were an absolute clownshow. He’s also still arguably the 5th-7th greatest player in league history despite having an unimpressive collection of peak seasons for a generational talent. Your McDavid hate doesn’t make much rational sense.
McDavid has been rough by his standards this season but even as of now his HockeyReference adjusted (I know they suck but people never seem to care about raw totals on here) stats rate is at 104 in 74 games (1.41). This is the worst year for him adjusted per game since 2017-18 but it is still roughly on par with Crosby’s 2nd and third best full seasons 2010 and 2014 by this metric (1.44 and 1.45 adjusted ppg respectively).
While he has seen a slip in production this year his 2021, 2023 and 2024 seasons are lightyears better than Crosby’s best 3 full seasons no matter how you do the comparison. What’s funny is that if you era adjust Crosby’s 3 shortened seasons from 2011-13 and pave them out they are still worse than what McDavid actually did in 21, 23 and 24.
You have been waiting for an opportunity to kick while he is down for awhile now. You hid away in 2023 and last year in the playoffs you were reaching to the heavens in hopes that Lemieux’s 44 playoff points would stand at second place. Unlike most fans from Pittsburgh I'm not afraid to reveal the warts on Sidney Crosby’s career. The guy is the third best offensive pen I’ve ever seen and yet people compare him to a deity.
King In The North
Sean Bennett
You seriously can't look at the Edmonton lineup and ask what's wrong with McDavid lol
Cup or Bust
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- Oct 17, 2017
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Even during a down season and missing games McDavid is still going to get over 100 points. It will be his 8th 100 point season to tie him for 3rd most all time in NHL history with half a career to go.
WalterLundy
Registered User
Crosby’s best season came in 2007 when 61 of his measly career high 120 came on the power play. You clearly don’t watch any other teams regularly outside of maybe the penguins.
McDavid has led the league in even strength points 3 times to Crosby’s 1.
Jaromir Jagr in 2006 had a better season at age 34 than Crosby ever had in the league. 121 points through 79 games and 123 overall just a year before Crosby hit his 120. This was a player I was actually impressed watching nightly when he played here. I bring Crosby up because the only reason “pens” fans are even in this particular thread is to take a dump on McDavid when they can because they are threatened by the fact he’s already surpassed Sid’s career individual trophy case/statistical best seasons in half the time in the league.
LivingRentFree
Registered User
Mcdavid has played what, 2 tough playoff series in his entire career? Look at the list of teams/goalies he’s matched up against in his career. Probably the easiest matchups of any star player in the history of the NHL
Imagine the Oilers being ok with their 28 year old captain “being tired” and “not trying in the regular season”. Imagine the NHL being ok with the face of their league having that type of work ethic.
Yikes
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WalterLundy
Registered User
Some ugly stats here
Since 2005-06 there have been 10 seasons that have matched or cleared Crosby’s career high in points:
McDavid 3x, Kucherov 2x, MacKinnon 1x, Thornton 1x, Jagr 1x and Panarin 1x.
Since 2005-06 there have been 24 seasons that have matched or cleared Crosby’s career high in goals:
Ovechkin 6x, Draisaitl 2x, Matthews 2x, Stamkos 2x, Kovalchuk 2x, Reinhart, McDavid, Hyman, Pastrnak, Point, Rantanen, Kreider, Lecavalier, Cheechoo and Jagr all once.
Since 2005-06 there have been 8 seasons that have matched or cleared Crosby’s career high in assists:
McDavid 2x, Kucherov 2x, Thornton 2x, MacKinnon and Huberdeau once each.
When a generational player has a down year it sucks for the league. I’ve been pretty disappointed in really everyone this year outside of Draisaitl and Ovechkin. I expected more out of McDavid this year by a lot but I also felt this way literally every year I’ve had season tickets for Sidney Crosby at least offensively. These are ugly stats. He failed as a generational talent offensively in single seasons.
tabness
be a playa 🇵🇸
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Why are people conflating even strength points with 5 on 5?
Even strength points have become quite different from 5 on 5 points, especially in the soft ass NHL of today, given 3 on 3 OT, and goalies being pulled far earlier leading to more empty net goals (and goals with the goalie pulled), which all count as even strength.
In this 11 game stretch where this dude can't buy a 5 on 5 point, he still gets credited for a few even strength points cause of OT and scoring when the goalie is pulled and whatever.
McDavid, while a strong 5 on 5 scorer early in his career, hasn't led the league in this category since the covid year 2020-2021, even as his reputation (amongst some) has taken another level cause of his general stats. He feasting on the empty nets and 3 on 3 though I guess.
Even strength points have become quite different from 5 on 5 points, especially in the soft ass NHL of today, given 3 on 3 OT, and goalies being pulled far earlier leading to more empty net goals (and goals with the goalie pulled), which all count as even strength.
In this 11 game stretch where this dude can't buy a 5 on 5 point, he still gets credited for a few even strength points cause of OT and scoring when the goalie is pulled and whatever.
McDavid, while a strong 5 on 5 scorer early in his career, hasn't led the league in this category since the covid year 2020-2021, even as his reputation (amongst some) has taken another level cause of his general stats. He feasting on the empty nets and 3 on 3 though I guess.
OilersFanatics505
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- Aug 11, 2008
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If nothing else, this proves they aren’t a product of each other this year if they aren’t playing together as much.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
I'm surprised his numbers are so low with the Oilers penchant for pairing him with Drai to get garbage points.
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like the keafs being OK with the billion dollar core not showing uo for play offs year after year......after year.
It's the NHL man
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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Dude is probably gassed. He's played a lot of hockey this year.
Video Nasty
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Assuming it’s true, does it matter when he also has some of the best and Crosby doesn’t have any?
McDavid plays through the bad times; Crosby sits them out and gets phantom trophies handed to him—hell, he even watched from the bench for most of Game 7 as his teammates finished the job for his first Cup win.
Guess some of the greats get judged differently than others.
Miro4Norris
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You are the one who brings here Crosby constantly and use ”You don’t watch games” arguments which are pretty childish. Especial while youre throwing here just point totals
Anyways, I have seen enough McDavid to have my opinion on him. SC Finals prove that he is right there with guys like Barkov. These player types are vety different, McD makes couple of flashes in a game and if he succeeds on those, he has had a succesful game. Guys like Crosby and Barkov does everything perfectly every shift, but arent as flashy.
Anyways, when it comes to that debate you are forcing here: McDavid need couple of cups to be on the level with Crosby, he is not going to be on the absolute top without being able to win playing with guys like Draisaitl. That’s the ultimate goal in this sport, thats it. Greatest players find a way to win, in every sport.
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Dallas Winston
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
- Oct 18, 2013
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Crosby at 28 was second in ev scoring. Let me know where mcdavid is currently
WalterLundy
Registered User
I’m not saying Crosby wasn’t integral on our cup runs but he also never led the team in scoring in any of the three. I know he brings other things to the table outside of that but he gets a pass for this. In 2009 he was excellent against Washington but against Detroit in games 5, 6 and 7 he was a liability/scoreless. He watched the team win the cup from the bench after he left the game from the franzen situation.
Crosby’s 3 cup wins he was certainly integral and they don’t win without him but in 2009 he was not the best player on our team. He just wasn’t. If the Oilers had won last year and Draisaitl actually showed up healthy and snagged the smythe I guarantee you McDavid would have been crushed on here for that. 2016 he was outdone statistically by Logan Couture and was goalless. He contributed in other ways but let’s not act like he was absolutely dominating and willing a victory. Definitely an all time weak smythe though. Murray or Kessel I say to this day. 2017 I don’t criticize as much. He was about as good as Malkin statistically and did have a solid finals. Point being though nothing about his SCF performance wins are anything that oozes greatness and inventing ways to win
Last year McDavid didn’t score in game 7 but he was at least active and creating chances. Definitely not a liability. In terms of gap between a league leader and a non teammate, McDavid had the biggest margin in playoff history even eclipsing 1985 Wayne Gretzky. This was over Barkov whom you mentioned already. Last year McDavid was far more deserving to win a cup based on individual performance than Crosby ever was in any cup run he ever appeared in. Crosby didn’t find ways to win. He played mostly adequately for his standards on great teams that had also had timely performances from people that you wouldn’t expect.
This is why I disagree with your point that McDavid needs a couple of cups to be on Crosby’s level. Crosby wasn’t winning them himself and you can argue in each one he wasn’t even the most impactful player on our team. Especially the first two. Team accomplishments are important and I’d never rank McDavid above Crosby without one but I would do so immediately upon him winning one because the rest of the comparison is a blowout. McDavid has more individual awards, has led the league in more categories and has far better peak/prime seasons than Crosby (even if you pace his injured years and adjust). He’s also done all of this in half the time (10 seasons to 20). To me outside of team accomplishments it just isn’t really a close comparison between the two at all.
I personally was more impressed with Lemieux (goes without saying) and Jagr as I watched both careers in their entirety here and while Crosby is great I see a lot of gatekeeping when it comes to him as well as some insecurities from many Crosby fans. This thread is a prime example. Most pens fans are thrilled that McDavid is having a down year because of their love and protection of Crosby.
