I often watch this tournament to check out latest up and coming prospects for NHL. I was very underwhelmed by overall talent level here aside from some of the very top young guys. Other teams played well as a unit overall but honestly weren't all that impressive and were very beatable.
WJC: Whats wrong with Canada?
- Thread starter Hockeyfrilla
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wickedwitch
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- Mar 21, 2010
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I clearly have a terrible sense of humor because I laugh every time I see a "Trudeau resigned because of the WJC results' joke.
Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
- Apr 15, 2018
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This is a great thread to read daily.
One thing in reading is that the world has caught up. I don't think they have. None of the czechs, Slovaks, Swiss or Germans have made those kind of gains. Still miles behind. US have certaily has made gains.
I'd say the sport of hockey has shrunk no Russians either internationally speaking. There were essentially 3 Gold favs here. That's it.
I still don't think Canada has any major issues. I don't even think it's that big a blip. To me, it's all about management.
I will say though that I love reading about poor roster selection when HF used to routinely have the 'Team B would win Gold posts'. In this case, I think Team B may have even beat Team A.lol
One thing in reading is that the world has caught up. I don't think they have. None of the czechs, Slovaks, Swiss or Germans have made those kind of gains. Still miles behind. US have certaily has made gains.
I'd say the sport of hockey has shrunk no Russians either internationally speaking. There were essentially 3 Gold favs here. That's it.
I still don't think Canada has any major issues. I don't even think it's that big a blip. To me, it's all about management.
I will say though that I love reading about poor roster selection when HF used to routinely have the 'Team B would win Gold posts'. In this case, I think Team B may have even beat Team A.lol
JackSlater
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- Apr 27, 2010
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I don't know why you keep referencing 2021, several players, including Canadians and players from other countries, were in the NHL. 2021 is a typical WJC year. The only NHL lockout years were 1995, 2005, and 2013. Yes USA did win the 2013 tournament, very strong team. Realistically Canada very likely does win this year if NHL players were loaned, but it would be a carry by Bedard and Celebrini. Some years NHL reinforcements would barely help Canada, or might help other teams more.
The bolded is the key part. Teams aren't just going to forfeit because Canada showed up, the team has to show up and perform. Self inflicted wounds, as in the 2025 team selection, are also a problem. And finally, sometimes other teams play better.
"Other teams have closed the gap" is the same argument people have brought out since the 1970s when they want to appear smarter than they likely are. Some years other countries have loaded teams or Canada has a bad crop of talent, but as you said this was not a WJC where it looked like anyone had a particularly talented team. There are years where Canada brings the best players it has and still loses, but that was not this year... which is pretty much the point of the thread.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I felt it was especially ridiculous last year.
These are some of them that were drafted ahead of Cole Hutson:
Terik Parascak
Sascha Boisvert
Cole Beaudoin
Dean Letourneau
Liam Greentree
Marek Vanacker
Ben Danford
Sam O’Reilly
Charlie Elick
Andrew Basha
Crazy.
Golden_Jet
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Well glad that’s decided, since one player has points in NHL since that draft, 6 months ago.
It has everything to do with Hockey Canada and its culture. Hockey Canada props up the CHL as the “Canadian Route” of developing players. It was Hockey Canada Management who picked the WJC coaching staff and scouts.
You’re talking about 3 years of player development in the CHL, which I will admit needs to do better and are the most important for a player’s development.. However, kids go through hundreds of Minor Hockey Programs that are funded through Hockey Canada. Furthermore, Hockey Academies and Private Programs have created serious inequities between middle-class families who can only afford to send their kids to local minor hockey associations and the ultra-rich. Hockey is much cheaper in other countries with Canada’s current economic situation and HC has not really done anything to bridge these gaps in affordability or accessibility to the sport.
Hockey Canada has gutted itself. It refuses to change its way. It still insists on a Carey Price model of Goaltending in its instruction, when not everyone has the build or playstyle of a Carey Price. What has that lead to? Putrid Canadian goaltending in the NHL today.
It fails to appeal the game to a growing immigrant population that is only going to get bigger. It fails to turn bystanders and spectators into actual hockey players.
The key finding in all of this is HC is stubborn. They need to seriously change their ways if they do not want to be the laughing stock of the world for the next decade and have USA Hockey walk them on a leash.
I know what people are going to say, picking the best players would have won us the tournament. You look at the 4-Nations rosters though and you have to admit that other countries have caught up and Canada has regressed slightly. The USA has also eclipsed Canada in terms of registered hockey players while Canada’s has decreased in the same time period. So what has Hockey Canada done in address that?
There’s bigger questions to ask about this sport rather than just this tournament. This tournament was a wake-up call for many of the delusional Canadian masses and I’m glad we received it.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
The player pool for Canada is as good as ever, but gone are the days they can pick the names of players and coaches from a hat and dunk on everyone.
Golden_Jet
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From Statista, US has 557k registered players vs 549k from Canada, that still means on a per capita basis, Canada has 9-10x more.
These numbers don’t include beer league players.
I’m also happy other nations are improving, makes the games better overall.
Zine
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- Feb 28, 2002
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What's wrong with Canada? Nothing other than the hubris of too high expectations.
High expectations are good, you always aim for gold. But they also must be grounded in reality accompanied with big picture thinking. No team is good enough to win nor medal every WJC tournament. It just aint gonna happen.
High expectations are good, you always aim for gold. But they also must be grounded in reality accompanied with big picture thinking. No team is good enough to win nor medal every WJC tournament. It just aint gonna happen.
WarriorofTime
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- Jul 3, 2010
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That's a bad argument, go back to the 2022 Draft, Lane Hutson was the 12th AMERICAN selection. Players of all nationalities get "mistakenly" (with hindsight being 20/20) drafted ahead of players that are steals in the 2nd round or later every single year.
I doubt anyone has ever done a nationality based above/below draft expectation analysis, but it'll likely just be a lot of noise and then having to sort out a lot of external factors. Like it would certainly show Russia as biggest underperformer because all the marginal players leave for the KHL if they don't have a good contract offer after their ELC, whereas someone like Hayden Fleury grinds out 114 NHL games the last four seasons well after it's been established that he's a bust, scraping by the bottom of various NHL rosters and on his 5th NHL organization. So someone will look at that draft, see almost 300 NHL games played and conclude that means not as bad a bust, or whatever. And then Swedes/Finns/Czechs/Slovaks somewhere in between those two extremes in terms of willingness to just kind of hang around.
The NHL 2020-21 season was the late Covid start, so the 1st NHL games wasn't until
January 12-14, which is after the 2021 WJC. So each country had access to their players.
No, it means the USA has surpassed Canada for the first time ever since hockey was invented. You are 100% correct and I get what you’re saying from a per capita basis. But the US only needs a minute fraction of its population to vest a minute interest in hockey for them to blow Canada out of the water in total player enrolments. As can be seen by that statistics, the USA has accomplished that and we’ve reached the break-even point between Canadian and American players. This disparity will continue to grow.
Canada’s advantage over other countries was that our population was so invested in hockey that we could historically produce more hockey players than all the other countries combined. With interest dying, costs rising and Hockey Canada’s ignorance, we can see for the first time, a decline in hockey player enrolment in Canada.
And I AGREE. I love to see other countries win medals and get better. However, there is definitely a problem with hockey in Canada and many of the points I mentioned in my earlier reply are indicative of that.
JackSlater
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Just because the season started late doesn't mean that all teams allowed their players to play. Lafreniere wasn't released for Canada, and neither was Hughes for USA. There were a few others I am not inclined to look up now. To be honest, even in the lockout years not every player gets released. Zibanejad wasn't released in 2013, Burns and Horton weren't released in 2005 etc.
Golden_Jet
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You missed a key point as to a main reason, teams that did allow players to go,
those players had to isolate themselves for 10 days or something prior to re-joining their team, and thus missing part of a shortened camp.
I didn't miss anything. Most of the top Canadian players were on Team Canada. Just give it up and stop belly aching. US didn't have Hughes, Vlasic & Beecher.
So both times in 2013 & 2021, Canada had the better talent and lost.
Golden_Jet
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you’re the only one who has been whining in here, going back to 1980, and have been called out on it numerous times.
Let alone you done even understand who qualifies for tournaments, which has been pointed out several times, but instead you tripled down on players that weren’t eligible for the Olympics that should have been there.
But don’t stop the entertainment, at least there is value in that, regardless of not understanding how qualifications work.
WarriorofTime
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Teams don't have to release AHL players if they don't want to (lockout or no). Shane Wright didn't play for Canada for last year. I think Draisaitl didn't play for Germany when he was 19 and it likely caused them to get relegated (actually he was still in the WHL then).
What's never really known is if the player wants to go but the team is telling them no or if the player just doesn't really want to go and the team runs interference on their behalf.
Anyways hard to call 2021 best on best when the two best 01s on the planet (at least at the time) weren't there, even if they plausibly could have been. I think COVID protocol knocked a few other guys out that year as well.
Golden_Jet
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Canada doesn’t have WJC eligible players playing, in he AHL, it’s not allowed,
there was a short exception, when the CHL was not playing though.
WarriorofTime
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Bradley Nadeau plays for the Chicago Wolves in the AHL and was released to play in the world juniors. Because he was ncaa, not CHL. Shane Wright was world junior eligible as an 04 last year. He also played in AHL because he got a waiver since he was exceptional status back in the day. Ron Francis gave like a one sentence response that he wasn’t being released to play in the world juniors.
Golden_Jet
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Crosby2010
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We've been hearing since 1980 that Americans are going to take over things. 1996 especially we heard that and it never happened. Until..........................well, maybe now. Who knows. See how the next drafts go over, but no doubt we are finally seeing that American boom that was once promised. It's here for sure.
WarriorofTime
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This is being disingenuous. USA has made big strides since 1980.
9.9 % NHL GP Share in 1979-80 with overall North American share at 93.6 % -> 28.5 % NHL GP Share in 2024-25 with overall North American share at 70.4 %. So even with a ton more competition from Europeans, American share has basically tripled.
you’re the only one who has been whining in here, going back to 1980, and have been called out on it numerous times.
Let alone you done even understand who qualifies for tournaments, which has been pointed out several times, but instead you tripled down on players that weren’t eligible for the Olympics that should have been there.
But don’t stop the entertainment, at least there is value in that, regardless of not understanding how qualifications work.
Lol, what I say about the 1980 Olympic Team is absolute fact. Your so called point about players not eligible is completely immaterial, as they still lost them and the remaining players still won.
