What's going on with our first line?

[LyricalLyricist]

Bergeron is a 2-way player....and one of the best in the league.
That makes him a good shutdown player and a good offensive player. He's both at the same time.

It's not just aqbout DD....i don't think Patches or Vanek has been good either so it's about the line.
And i would agree that DD isn'T the worst on that line.

Don't worry...DD's thread will come back this summer and you will be able to put all the blame on his wingers (again) for a (so far) mediocre playoff performance (again).
Then the season will start, and you will come and say how DD makes his wingers better cause he's the "best playmaking/best vision" on the Habs......but i don'T see any playmaking on that line so far...do you?

Thruth is....DD rely heavily on his wingers and not the other way around.
This playoff is another exemple.

Okay but they weren't shutdown by a shutdown line. They were shutdown by a two-way selke lead line.

While we agree I think you've identified DD as the problem. Your next paragraph even proves it.

If DD is relying heavily on his wingers there's a big problem because I don't think they've been jumping on the ice.

If you REALLY believe DD is relying on his wingers name me the times Vanek had a good play yesterday? Maybe even 1 time he went against Chara? Anything? Exactly.

 

[Rapala]

Pacman and Dd have no points vs Bruins this season and 1playoff game....So been going on a while.......just a matter of time.

MT has to make some serious adjustments.
We won with one line.
Bournival HAS TO PLAY.
Plecky needs more support on his line I wouldn't hesitate to give him Patches.
Max can buy into a shutdown role an be very effective at it. He would ultimately end up with more ice time and better scoring chances with that line. One of DD or Briere HAS to sit. Play the other with Bournival/Vanek White/Weise/(Prust/Moen) This lineup would be far more balanced that what we iced for game one. I'm certain Plecky's line would become dangerous all of a sudden.
If Vanek doesn't bring it he can sit also...
We need four lines that are filled with players who are committed. DD is the only player showing any real desire on his line which is totally unacceptable.
This would force CJ into a quandry who do you put Bergeron against?
We no longer have a line ticketed #1

 

[Wats]

It's not about facing a good shudown line. Patches and Vanek did not compete last night. If they put in the effort then I don't care if they got points or not. To score in the playoff, you have to put in 110%.

That's my point, they never really had to grind it out as hard before playoffs started. Every other line including Galchenyuk had to at one point or another. When you aren't used to facing as good coverage it's hard for Pacioretty to find open space in slot and Desharnais to constantly look for him to pass. If you aren't used to facing good lines harder to get the puck out of your zone. If you spend 3/4 of your shifts running around in your D zone it's tough to produce.

 

[Fazkovsky]

how about

Pac-DD-Gallagher
Vanek-Plekanec-Bournival

Thats big time money

 

[optimus2861]

Truth is....DD rely heavily on his wingers and not the other way around.
This playoff is another example.

Last night was exhibit #1. DD, give him credit, busted his ass. He was skating hard into backchecks, fighting as best he could against the B's defence, trying to win puck battles.. and he just can't do it, not enough to "drive the bus", so to speak. He needs his wingers, especially Max, to be playing their best in order to get the results. Well, Max was frigging floating last night. Way too tentative, too soft, completely unwilling to engage. And Vanek, well we're all hoping Vanek is sick or injured, because if that was a healthy Vanek, he can go straight to Minnesota this summer. Do not pass the Bell Centre, do not collect 8 million dollars.

An engaged Pacioretty drives Desharnais's results. The reverse is not true. This is the team we've got for now, so we've gotta root for it, but ultimately it's not a recipe for a Stanley Cup victory. The #1 center must be driving the bus.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Lol.....

Well it's not...

This year:
Desharnais 4GP, 1G, 1A, 2PTS, +1
Pacioretty 4GP, 2G, 1A, 3PTS, +3
Eller 3GP, 0G, 0A, 0PTS, -1
Subban 4GP, 0G, 1A, 1PTS, -1
Plekanec 4GP, 1G, 1A, 2PTS, +0

Last 3 years:
Desharnais 14GP, 4G, 6A, 10PTS, +7
Pacioretty 14GP, 4G, 4A, 8PTS, +7
Eller 13GP, 1G, 1A, 2PTS, -3
Subban 14GP, 2G, 6A, 8PTS, +1
Plekanec 14GP, 5G, 7A, 12PTS, -2

 

[Wats]

how about

Pac-DD-Gallagher
Vanek-Plekanec-Bournival

Thats big time money

Gallagher and Plekanec doing well together, why break that up.

Gallagher 5 points in 5 games
Plekanec 4 points in 5 games

Both playing against offensive lines, low Ozone starts, and 2nd PP unit.

 

[Milhouse40]

That's what it has come down to now. "competing". We went from "results" a few months ago to "competing" now. Does competing matter if you're ineffective? It's not all on DD, he can't help his physical limitations, but we completely altered the team just so he could produce. Crippled the lineup for that reason. Now look at them. As you said, put Max and Vanek with Lars and watch them produce. You need size down the middle in the playoffs. It's clear as day.

For a full decade before the arrival of DD....Habs fans we're saying that we need to get bigger down the middle to be effective in the PO.

That was right then,,,,and still is now.
And that always were the main reason i never were a DD supporter in the first place and
i always wanted Eller to put in a more important role. Poeple now see why.
Cause i remember why we lost so many playoff round since 2000

I wonder what faith the Habs would've got this year if Eller was injured like last year....and i wonder how far we would've gone with Eller last year in the line-up.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

how about

Pac-DD-Gallagher
Vanek-Plekanec-Bournival

Thats big time money

I wouldn't be opposed to old line up or even putting a grinder on the Pacioretty line(Gallagher looks fine where he is). They haven't been producing really. I just hope if we take Vanek out of the line he starts producing.

 

[Habaneros]

Well it's not...

This year:
Desharnais 4GP, 1G, 1A, 2PTS, +1
Pacioretty 4GP, 2G, 1A, 3PTS, +3
Eller 3GP, 0G, 0A, 0PTS, -1
Subban 4GP, 0G, 1A, 1PTS, -1
Plekanec 4GP, 1G, 1A, 2PTS, +0

Last 3 years:
Desharnais 14GP, 4G, 6A, 10PTS, +7
Pacioretty 14GP, 4G, 4A, 8PTS, +7
Eller 13GP, 1G, 1A, 2PTS, -3
Subban 14GP, 2G, 6A, 8PTS, +1
Plekanec 14GP, 5G, 7A, 12PTS, -2

I know...it was said with .......again Pacman in 9 playoff games has 1 goal =2 pts...So as a 30+goal scoer, not really lights out so far in playoff career...but it's early for him and just a matter of time as i said.

The answer to this thread whats wrong with line one,is Pacman has 1 goal in 9 playoff games...

 

[JustAHabFan]

Last night was exhibit #1. DD, give him credit, busted his ass. He was skating hard into backchecks, fighting as best he could against the B's defence, trying to win puck battles.. and he just can't do it, not enough to "drive the bus", so to speak. He needs his wingers, especially Max, to be playing their best in order to get the results. Well, Max was frigging floating last night. Way too tentative, too soft, completely unwilling to engage. And Vanek, well we're all hoping Vanek is sick or injured, because if that was a healthy Vanek, he can go straight to Minnesota this summer. Do not pass the Bell Centre, do not collect 8 million dollars.

An engaged Pacioretty drives Desharnais's results. The reverse is not true. This is the team we've got for now, so we've gotta root for it, but ultimately it's not a recipe for a Stanley Cup victory. The #1 center must be driving the bus.

Totally agree with you. Patches and Vanek had to play harder. If Vanek was injured, just sit him out and get another player in.

 

[Fazkovsky]

I wouldn't be opposed to old line up or even putting a grinder on the Pacioretty line(Gallagher looks fine where he is). They haven't been producing really. I just hope if we take Vanek out of the line he starts producing.

Yes and we have to give pleky skilled wingers too, no matter how bad Vanek is defensively pleky and bourny will make up for it. Its time to realize Bournival has the skills to be a top 6 player not his fault we arent giving him a chance. Gally has a lot of hustle and this line will keep creating chances while not being a liability defensively.

The vanek-dd experiment needs to end, I know its premature but two of them on the same line being uni dimensional isnt a good idea. You can play them on the 1st pp unit anyway.

 

[That Habs Fan]

Pacioretty has become a great offensive player in terms of goals and the like, but he is not using his size and strength nearly enough. I think someone needs to remind him he's 6'2, 220 lbs., he should be hitting guys harder and more often as well as mucking it up in front of the net.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Gallagher and Plekanec doing well together, why break that up.

Gallagher 5 points in 5 games
Plekanec 4 points in 5 games

Both playing against offensive lines, low Ozone starts, and 2nd PP unit.

The only way to get Desharnais and Pacioretty going is to put Gallagher on their line. Plekanec has good chemistry with Bournival. A Vanek-Desharnais-Prust or Moen line is doomed to fail big time with the way Vanek is playing right now.

 

[Milhouse40]

Okay but they weren't shutdown by a shutdown line. They were shutdown by a two-way selke lead line.

While we agree I think you've identified DD as the problem. Your next paragraph even proves it.

If DD is relying heavily on his wingers there's a big problem because I don't think they've been jumping on the ice.

If you REALLY believe DD is relying on his wingers name me the times Vanek had a good play yesterday? Maybe even 1 time he went against Chara? Anything? Exactly.

You were the one praising DD's vision and playmaking skills....show me one great play
coming from these skills that Patches and Vanek missed. Goes both way. In fact, the only chances i rememeber is Pacioretty making a pass to DD and he missed a scoring chance.

I don't think DD is THE problem...not right now at least.
But i don'T think he's the solution either. He's playing hard and competing hard, no doubt.

We can say Bergeron is a hell of a player to go against.....i agree.
But DD also been shutdown by Filpulla's line and Turris line last year.

In fact, i'm still waiting for DD's line not to be shutdown in the PO, and that goes for Pacioretty too. Still waiting for Pacioretty's PO awakening.

how about

Pac-DD-Gallagher
Vanek-Plekanec-Bournival

Thats big time money

I love the fact that Plek got Prust on his line since he's taking the line of Lucic.

Last night was exhibit #1. DD, give him credit, busted his ass. He was skating hard into backchecks, fighting as best he could against the B's defence, trying to win puck battles.. and he just can't do it, not enough to "drive the bus", so to speak. He needs his wingers, especially Max, to be playing their best in order to get the results. Well, Max was frigging floating last night. Way too tentative, too soft, completely unwilling to engage. And Vanek, well we're all hoping Vanek is sick or injured, because if that was a healthy Vanek, he can go straight to Minnesota this summer. Do not pass the Bell Centre, do not collect 8 million dollars.

An engaged Pacioretty drives Desharnais's results. The reverse is not true. This is the team we've got for now, so we've gotta root for it, but ultimately it's not a recipe for a Stanley Cup victory. The #1 center must be driving the bus.

Plain and simple

 

[Rapala]

Pacioretty has become a great offensive player in terms of goals and the like, but he is not using his size and strength nearly enough. I think someone needs to remind him he's 6'2, 220 lbs., he should be hitting guys harder and more often as well as mucking it up in front of the net.

Put him With Plecky and Gallagher.
I guarantee he starts playing in that role.
Get him committed to using his size and speed for something other than offense.
This will free him up for sure. It would also leave CJ scratching his head. No primary target for Bergeron.
Plecky's line was owned and needs something quick...

 

[Wats]

DD is trying, but he is getting absolutely smothered out there. Boston D has no problem knocking him off the puck. Pacioretty is depending too much on DD to get the puck to him and that's just never going to happen in the playoffs. DD gets squashed like a bug no matter how hard he is trying.

Vanek played?

I think this is why Plekanec will always be better than DD offensively whether he gets less points in the regular season or not. He can still can create offense at some degree regardless of the adversity he faces in terms of linemate play, competition, situation. He's never going to be as fancy but he's really versatile. Desharnais can be at his best playing really good but unlikely to see production if the wingers suck like we've seen these playoffs. If Pacioretty doesn't go on a scoring tear, that line unlikely to do anything this series. Hopefully they are decent enough defensively to cancel out Bergeron's line.

 

[Milhouse40]

I wouldn't be opposed to old line up or even putting a grinder on the Pacioretty line(Gallagher looks fine where he is). They haven't been producing really. I just hope if we take Vanek out of the line he starts producing.

Gallagher looks fine anywhere
Still never been on a line that didn't produce well

He's a real sparkplug.

Then again...i like the fact that he's playing with Prust on his line.
You don't see him get knocked off like he used to on the first line.

 

[Monctonscout]

Where's all those great passes from Desharnais?
Where's that great chemistry between Pacioretty and Desharnais?

What's happenning here with our first line?

Desharnais spent the night on his ass.
Pacioretty spent the night outside of the slot.
Vanek spent the night somewhere else.

They didn't produce in the 1st round....and started the second round giving
tons of scoring chances to the Bruins and created next to nothing.

They're the least productive 5on5 line since the playoff started.
And even on the PP they sucked big time....still can't believe Eller's line don't get any.

We can point out Vanek's invisibility.....but we also can point out that DD and Patches never showed up in the PO in their career so far.

Combined with last year performance in the PO, we have to start asking if Desharnais
and Pacioretty are playoff performers. Last year, Patches was hurt (although i think it's not an excuse) but this year, they are no reasons what so ever.

We need our first line if we want to be dangerous in this serie.


Your toughts?

It's pretty simple, Vanek and Pacioretty have to get involved. They just seem to be standing around and not moving their feet or using their size.

 

[la25ecoupe]

I'm not sure Vanek is hurt, because why would Therrien switch him on another line..?

 

[Rapala]

I'm not sure Vanek is hurt, because why would Therrien switch him on another line..?

Well if he's not hurt we should pretend he is and bench him period.

 

[Tim Wallach]

I'm not sure Vanek is hurt, because why would Therrien switch him on another line..?

I think whatever is wrong with him he feels he can deal with and at least try to eat a few minutes against a strong team in a long, double OT game. It looked like he was trying to be a good teammate and contribute, but he clearly couldn't.

I agree with people who were saying this is typical of top lines in the playoffs when they face the tough opposition, fewer PPs, etc.

But that wasn't a typical shut-down. He shut himself down.

 

[Mario Lemieux fan 66]

Habs should try these lines: Pacioretty-Desharnais-Gallagher
Bourque-Eller-Vanek
Bournival or Moen-Plekanec-Gionta
Moen, Prust or Bournival-Brière-Weise

 

[Milhouse40]

I'm not sure Vanek is hurt, because why would Therrien switch him on another line..?

For the same reason i started this thread.....cause this line isn't working at all.
He didn't weant to break the 2 lines that brought us into the second round, so that leaves the fourth line....+ Vanek was playing like crap.

 

[Natey]

To the OP - we have to start asking if Desharnais is a playoff performer? This is the best 5 games he's played all year and maybe in his career.

Nobody is arguing that DD didn't compete last, he gave his best but he is not built for the playoffs especially against a team like Boston. Put Vanek and Pacioretty with Eller and they will produce.

THIS IS NOT THE REGULAR SEASON!

Prove me wrong David!

Probably the dumbest thing I've read all year...

Who the **** is Eller going to cycle the puck like he does with Bourque? HIMSELF!?

Desharnais was setting them up non-stop against Tampa and Vanek went from a solid first game with a lot of missed chances to ****ing terrible. Pacioretty improved as the series went on, but Desharnais has far and away been the best player on his line.

Put Desharnais with Bourque and Gionta and he'd likely produce too because those guys are leaving everything on the ice. (So is Eller).

Pacioretty is ... meh. Vanek is one of the worst players I can remember wearing a the CH (so far) in the playoffs in recent memory. Vanek makes Kovalev's compete level seem like Gallagher.