What's going on with Dubinsky and Jenner

[JohnnyJacket13]

His IQ has never been good, and we weren't exactly making very many "intelligent" plays last year. He fits that crash and bang style, and that's just not our game anymore. I agree with the rest of your analysis though.

I seriously question his hockey IQ too. A prime example of this was last night when he, Dubi and Atkinson entered the offensive zone on a 3-on-2 towards the end of the first period, and instead of looking to make a play, he fires a slap shot into the goalie's chest from five feet inside the blue line...

He then skates to the bench yelling "**** me". Tunnel vision, I tell ya.

I would really like to see some changes made to the lines (outside of the top-line) - the lines have looked a bit stale 5-on-5 for the most part the last few games.

Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Hartnell-Karlsson-Atkinson
Calvert-Dubinsky-Anderson
Jenner-Sedlak-Gagner

 

[Forepar]

I posted some of this in the GDT earlier today, before I read this thread.

IMO, Dubi and Jenner are ok where they are for several reasons.

1. They are sloooowwwwlllllly turning the corner. Dubi moreso than Jenner. Jenner still squeezing the stick.

2. CBJ is in the #1 spot in the entire NHL - not that everyone can't be better, but they have 60 points in 39 games in part due to Jenner's and Dubi's play - and in part in spite of that play.

3. Repeat #2, but with a different angle. They are in the #1 spot because the other three lines have been above expectation, and because the PP has been hotter than hot. Moving either 17 or 38, if they are as off as some suggest, affects chemistry/performance of another line. I would not break up Gagner-Sedlak-Hartnell, and frankly the Anderson-Wild Bill-Calvert line, while in need of a few more scores, is playing lights out as well.

4. Noted in other posts - I don't see a 2nd line. I see 4 lines, identified by the players on that line, not a 1,2,3 & 4 (Saad-Wennberg-Foligno line is #1, but TOI difference for the lines is not that great at ES, just PP differential. Examples: Foligno high at 18:25, Cam at 17:53, Dubi at 17:35, Jenner at 15:19, Gagner at 13:35, Hartnell at 12:23 (NO PK at all), Sedlak low at 9:28 (but creeping upward). Moving players up or down, because of perceived line #, makes less sense than in the past.

http://[URL="http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?aggregate=0&gameType=2&report=skatersummary&teamId=29&pos=S&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20162017&seasonTo=20162017&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=timeOnIcePerGame"][/URL]

Sure it would be fun to see Cam with more offensively talented linemates - but he gets that time on the PP. Cam has been incredibly effective at back-checking this year - so many more times than ever before I hear myself saying "NICE" as Cam sweeps back, intercepts a pass, back pass to puck moving D (OMG I typed that) and off they go. And I believe someone posted that Cam has 10 ES goals with those 2; not outstanding but SOLID.

If you move them, who ends up with 17 and 38? I don't see Gagner has effective with them as he's been, nor Anderson (although he's been off the scoresheet for a bit), nor Hartnell. I just see the lines fitting as is, for now. 2 losses followed by an OT win are not enough for line blender to resurrect itself. If the problems persist without improvement, that's different.

 

[Zarathustra]

I seriously question his hockey IQ too. A prime example of this was last night when he, Dubi and Atkinson entered the offensive zone on a 3-on-2 towards the end of the first period, and instead of looking to make a play, he fires a slap shot into the goalie's chest from five feet inside the blue line...

He then skates to the bench yelling "**** me". Tunnel vision, I tell ya.

I would really like to see some changes made to the lines (outside of the top-line) - the lines have looked a bit stale 5-on-5 for the most part the last few games.

Saad-Wennberg-Foligno
Hartnell-Karlsson-Atkinson
Calvert-Dubinsky-Anderson
Jenner-Sedlak-Gagner

I've been clamoring for a line-up change similar to this for a while. My only hesitation would be with taking Hartnell away from Gagner and that it might affect his production, and a good fourth line is one of the reasons we've been winning and it wouldn't be good to neuter it.

 

[major major]

I've been clamoring for a line-up change similar to this for a while. My only hesitation would be with taking Hartnell away from Gagner and that it might affect his production, and a good fourth line is one of the reasons we've been winning and it wouldn't be good to neuter it.

I agree that this would hurt Gagner. It would make a true fourth line out of a scoring line.

Switching Calvert and Jenner is the better way to do it. Calvert is a better defensive complement with Dubinsky.

 

[Forepar]

I agree that this would hurt Gagner. It would make a true fourth line out of a scoring line.

Switching Calvert and Jenner is the better way to do it. Calvert is a better defensive complement with Dubinsky.

This smaller change I could get my arms around. I'm still leaning toward leaving it alone for a bit longer, but I do recognize that Dubi and Boone are mis-matched defensively. I can't figure out why, which is part of my reluctance to split them - but you are correct in an earlier post - they just aren't.

 

[major major]

This smaller change I could get my arms around. I'm still leaning toward leaving it alone for a bit longer, but I do recognize that Dubi and Boone are mis-matched defensively. I can't figure out why, which is part of my reluctance to split them - but you are correct in an earlier post - they just aren't.

I think Dubi and Boone think too much alike, as odd as it is to say. You sometimes see them trying to take the same assignment defensively.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I like most of our lines. To me, 20-10-71 is excellent and 43-45-89 has delivered playing their more limited minutes. 11-25-34 hasn't scored a lot, but I have found them to be aggressive and hold their own on their shifts. The line in question is 38-17-13. To me the biggest issue is 38 and moving him might be just shifting the problem to another line. This may not be popular, but I would sit him for a while, recall Bjorkstrand and insert him in that spot.

 

[Hello Johnny]

I like most of our lines. To me, 20-10-71 is excellent and 43-45-89 has delivered playing their more limited minutes. 11-25-34 hasn't scored a lot, but I have found them to be aggressive and hold their own on their shifts. The line in question is 38-17-13. To me the biggest issue is 38 and moving him might be just shifting the problem to another line. This may not be popular, but I would sit him for a while, recall Bjorkstrand and insert him in that spot.

I think Milano has earned it more than Bjork, and also plays LW.

 

[Zarathustra]

I agree that this would hurt Gagner. It would make a true fourth line out of a scoring line.

Switching Calvert and Jenner is the better way to do it. Calvert is a better defensive complement with Dubinsky.

I was thinking that taking Jenner off the line would be the best thing to do, but I've changed my mind.


I think switching Karlsson with Dubinsky would be better and might bring better scoring to both the 2nd and third line without bringing either of them down. Dubinsky is playing well, but isn't scoring, but isn't meshing with Jenner, either. Playing Dubi with Anderson and Calvert might spark both of them, and Karlsson's passing ability might help both Jenner improve and not weigh down on Atkinson so much.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

I was thinking that taking Jenner off the line would be the best thing to do, but I've changed my mind.

After the prior game I am going through line combinations, left and right, thinking of splitting up Dubie's line. But then I came to my senses cause I know, him especially, that's he's gonna play a good game.

 

[Viqsi]

I agree that this would hurt Gagner. It would make a true fourth line out of a scoring line.

Switching Calvert and Jenner is the better way to do it. Calvert is a better defensive complement with Dubinsky.

I fully support this, if only because it has the additional happy side effect of reuniting Atkinson and Calvert.

 

[hardkorejackets]

I actually wouldn't mind trying to roll the lines of

Jenner/Karlsson/Atkinson- Might be able to add some scoring to this line hopefully. Also give Karlsson a shot at 2nd power play center.
Calvert/Dubinsky/Anderson -

 

[major major]

If you're talking about moving Jenner off a line, I'd start with 2nd PP unit, which has been abysmal.

Right now it's

Hartnell

Saad - Jenner - Dubinsky

Jones

Jenner has been a good PP player for us in the past, but in the current 1 - 3 - 1, the mid position and the down-low position (where he'd score most of his goals) both need playmaking. There isn't a spot for a pure greasy guy. I'd try:



Hartnell

Saad - Dubinsky - Karlsson

Jones

 

[Miggus]

If we're concentrating on their lack of offensive prowess, I don't think it can be fixed with just fiddling with the lines. I also think that the main problem with Boone's and Dubi's lack of production and why Boone has been more completely lost is the style of play that relies heavily on cycling the puck down low, which wears the opposition down. I think one of the key reasons they've been winning games is that right now we have 3 lines that are very good at cycling the puck when they either are or get matched properly, and that is why I wouldn't mess with the lines without changing the style of play of one line completely.

My theory is that for a forward line to be able to cycle the puck 5-on-5, sustain pressure and ultimately turn it to a scoring chance and hopefully score, every forward on the line needs to have or be good at at least one of these three things: Skating (in this case to be able to stop and turn on a dime and to be able to rapidly accelerate and change direction in succession), have good hands, or have good hockey IQ. If a player has or is good at one of these things, he's ok at cycling the puck. If he's got 2/3, he's good and 3/3 I'd consider excellent if not elite. Size and strength is only a plus in my book, not a requirement, because I consider it to fall under IQ. It doesn't matter if you're the biggest guy on ice if you don't know how to use it to your advantage.

This is why right now I think Boone is struggling the most and it's pretty much just him that's bringing that whole line down, and if moved to a different line would bring it down too without changing the strategy. For this cycling style of play he has none of those three things mentioned above going for him. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but like some of you have already said this style doesn't fit him or vice versa. He can't skate in this regard (think Foligno, Saad, Atkinson and how they can skate circles around some D-men) and he's got the hands of stone. But wait, he has size and strength! Well yes, but like I said before I consider that to be a matter of hockey IQ and Boone seems to be lacking in that department also. He doesn't seem to be able to use his large body to protect the puck nearly as well as would be possible. Watch and compare him to a similar build in Hartnell, the difference is subtle but it's there. Best example of using your size to shield the puck in the league is obviously Jagr with his enormous posterior, but it's really Jagr's smarts that enables him to read the play and position said posterior in the way of others. But mostly hockey IQ in this regard has to do with knowing when and where to pass the puck along the boards and/or when to emerge to the front of the goal, and this is not Boone's forte either.

So this is why I wouldn't just switch up Hartnell and Boone, or Calvert and Boone, because while it could bring up the production from Dubi and mostly Cam, I firmly believe with this style of play (or call it line chemistry or whatever) the line where Boone ends up would be significantly worse than before, and the sum total of the two lines' play would be negative or +-0 at best. If they feel Cam's offensive potential is now getting wasted on that line and would like to switch something up, I'd actually entertain the thought of switching Cam with Anderson. You certainly don't want to break up the #1 line, and I wouldn't want to break that #4 line of Hartnell-Sedlak-Gagner either, because them clicking so well together is also one of the big reasons why CBJ is sitting at #1 because they're almost unfairly good when matched against other teams #4 lines. However putting Cam with Calvert and Karlsson would make that line quite small in stature, but possibly nightmarishly quick to play against. Then lastly you could just let loose three big boys in Boone-Dubi-Anderson and have them wreak havoc and thrive by playing that north-south crash and bang hockey they're all best suited for.

 

[Miggus]

If you're talking about moving Jenner off a line, I'd start with 2nd PP unit, which has been abysmal.

Right now it's

Hartnell

Saad - Jenner - Dubinsky

Jones

Jenner has been a good PP player for us in the past, but in the current 1 - 3 - 1, the mid position and the down-low position (where he'd score most of his goals) both need playmaking. There isn't a spot for a pure greasy guy. I'd try:

Hartnell

Saad - Dubinsky - Karlsson

Jones

Agree. Hell if we're just thinking about running the PP I'd even take Dubi out and put Murray with his excellent vision there. So Hartnell-Karlsson-Saad with Jones and Murray. But then again you'd probably want Dubi there to take the faceoff unless Karlsson can vastly improve on them.

 

[EdwardG]

Question about Jenner: How did he score 30 goals last year? What is he good at offensively? I admit that I didn't pay much attention to the Jackets last year...

I watch him this year and see a guy who isn't gifted at passing, shooting/sniping, decision-making, or controlling the puck, in sharp contrast to the more skilled forwards (Wenn, Cam, Saad, Foligno) who make things happen. Were they all rebounds? He's not getting many of those this year either.

 

[major major]

Question about Jenner: How did he score 30 goals last year? What is he good at offensively? I admit that I didn't pay much attention to the Jackets last year...

I watch him this year and see a guy who isn't gifted at passing, shooting/sniping, decision-making, or controlling the puck, in sharp contrast to the more skilled forwards (Wenn, Cam, Saad, Foligno) who make things happen. Were they all rebounds? He's not getting many of those this year either.

In the paint.

He looks slower than last year. Actually the last few games have been Jenner's fastest of the year, so maybe he'll pick up the scoring and hitting. The poor puck control, poor vision, etc... is all the same as last year though. He wasn't good at any of those things.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

What you do off the puck is more important. Have you already forgotten about Cincinnatus?

 

[LastWordArmy]

Boone Jenner is a curious case among the red-hot Columbus Blue Jackets this season. Despite being a bright light on an otherwise dim 2015-16 season, he hasn’t been able to produce goals like he did last year. Let’s take a look at the two years and see the comparisons.

http://lastwordonhockey.com/2017/01/21/boone-jenner-isnt-playing-bad-seems/

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Red hot blue jackets?

 

[EDM]

Perhaps we should have a "What is Going On With Wennberg & Saad thread?" They are now the biggest drag on the team.

 

[Columbus Jack]

This is true EDM however one could say pretty easily that they will bounce back, Jenner and Dubi arent really top 6 players anymore.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This is true EDM however one could say pretty easily that they will bounce back, Jenner and Dubi arent really top 6 players anymore.

Did Jenner age 10 years?

 

[EDM]

Wennberg has to get there first before he can "bounce back" excellence.

 

[major major]

Wennberg has to get there first before he can "bounce back" excellence.

He had something like 65 points in the calendar year of 2016. We wouldn't be complaining about him if he stayed like that.