TSN: What's a realistic start date for the NHL to target?

[Golden_Jet]

Leafs have paid out some major signing bonus money for a season that may not happen.

Matthews - 15.2
Marner - 14.3
Taveras - 11.1
Muzzin - 7.3
Andersen - 4
Nylander - 3.5
Kerfoort - 1
Holl - 1

Total - 57.4 million

For comparison sake, under a full season the Senators would be paying 49 million in actual salary for their entire roster (Bonuses and Salary)

I understand your point but capfriendly has Ottawa at 69 million not 49.

 

[Nineteen67]

well the first 4 you listed are outdoor sports

There are no fans, what difference does it make?

 

[Golden_Jet]

There are no fans, what difference does it make?

Therein lies the reason.

 

[VanW27]

I understand your point but capfriendly has Ottawa at 69 million not 49.

69 million is their cap hit, 49 is actual salary commitments.

 

[Deebo]

Also @jt AM the real deal, players were paid there first cheque already in October for the 20/21 season. Bonuses were already paid out, ie Matthews has his 15 million.

If you go by the last lockout, contracts, are not extended 1 year, just one less year on the deal. If no season not sure if first cheque would have to be returned.

Not sure if bonuses would be returned, I don’t think so, as it was lockout protection money, in the last lockout.

Could be different if it’s called a suspended season.

No matter what, HRR for 2020/21 won't be zero, even in the event of a cancelled season as things like merchandise is included in HRR. Collectively, players will be entitled to keep 50% of whatever HRR is. If what the players have received exceed the 50% of HRR, and current year escrow doesn't cover the overage, then the balance will be paid back by future escrow withholding.

I don't believe anything will be directly returned.

The players refusal to take further deferrals or increased escrow could end up with them receiving more than 50% of HRR up front and pay it back in future years. Some players might be out of the league while the balance is still being paid off.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Also @jt AM the real deal, players were paid there first cheque already in October for the 20/21 season. Bonuses were already paid out, ie Matthews has his 15 million.

If you go by the last lockout, contracts, are not extended 1 year, just one less year on the deal. If no season not sure if first cheque would have to be returned.

Not sure if bonuses would be returned, I don’t think so, as it was lockout protection money, in the last lockout.

Could be different if it’s called a suspended season.

Thanks for update my kid in minors with a pro contract to an NHL team was not paid a nickel since last April. But if owners are paying NHL salary in 2020/21 season then they must be honouring the new CPA. That gives me more hope that season will be played. Why start paying da players and then lock them out? Makes no sense. If they lock players out then they will lose that bonus/salary $$$ paid plus the TV contracts. WOW surprising to hear that. Da checks started rolling again in October every 2 weeks.

 

[Golden_Jet]

69 million is their cap hit, 49 is actual salary commitments.

Oh ok you meant actual dollars, capfriendly says estimated salary expenditure is 55 million, are you counting their buyouts as well.
Not that it matters, to what your original point was.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Thanks for update my kid in minors with a pro contract to an NHL team was not paid a nickel since last April. But if owners are paying NHL salary in 2020/21 season then they must be honouring the new CPA. That gives me more hope that season will be played. Why start paying da players and then lock them out? Makes no sense. If they lock players out then they will lose that bonus/salary $$$ paid plus the TV contracts. WOW surprising to hear that. Da checks started rolling again in October every 2 weeks.

Just a correction, one cheque was paid no more, and no more coming until a season, they classified it as a good will by the owners since the players had no money since March. They made it sound like it was more for the minimum wagers.

Congrats to your son and you as a father, I’ll assume you don’t want to share the NHL team with his rights.

Nice to see your recovering from covid also.

 

[Deebo]

Leafs have paid out some major signing bonus money for a season that may not happen.

Matthews - 15.2
Marner - 14.3
Taveras - 11.1
Muzzin - 7.3
Andersen - 4
Nylander - 3.5
Kerfoort - 1
Holl - 1

Total - 57.4 million

For comparison sake, under a full season the Senators would be paying 49 million in actual salary for their entire roster (Bonuses and Salary)

The signing bonuses are subject to 20% escrow and 10% deferral, still a lot of money though.

 

[Henkka]

1 week delay because of WJC, start at January 7th.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I know this doesn’t belong here, but does anyone have any recommendations on an indoor bike training stand, or what features I need or what models to avoid. Gonna be a long winter, need something for indoor training. Thanks and under say $350. If mods need to delete, I understand.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

At this rate February 1st. Any hope of early January is out the window now.

 

[GLobello]

The Toronto Raptors are not allowed to play home games in Canada.

NBA, Toronto Raptors Denied Access to Play in Canada

The Toronto Raptors and other NBA teams will not be allowed to play games in Canada for the 2020-21 season, according to The Associated Press. ... The federal government dashed the plans for the Raptors to play homes games in Scotiabank Arena, per the Toronto Star

Due to coronavirus travel restrictions in Canada, the Toronto Raptors will not be allowed to play home games at Scotiabank Arena for the upcoming NBA season, which begins on Dec. 22. CBC News' David Cochrane confirms that the Toronto Raptors will begin the next season playing in Tampa, Fla., after their request to play home games in Toronto was denied by the federal government. The Raptors will play out of 20,500-seat Amalie Arena, home to the Tampa Bay Lightning, the 2020 Stanley Cup champs.

How are the Leafs going to play home games if the Raptors playing out of the same building are not allowed to and the closed Canada/USA border prevents any American teams from playing in Canada in 2020-21 ?

All Canadian division to start the year. No teams from the US enter Canada and no Canadian teams enter the US. This has been all but confirmed.

 

[GLobello]

The argument is that those other sports can sustain losses because they have huge TV deals, whereas the NHL does not. The fact that there are some owners who would rather not have the season be played because their losses would be less than if a season is played is telling.

I also think the 7 Canadian teams poses a bit of a logistical problem. Can't just plop them somewhere in the U.S. like the Jays and Raptors. And even with an all Canadian division, is it ideal that each team plays each other 8 times over the course of a shortened 48-game season? Then having to working out logistics of playoffs and the travel between the countries -- the league can't really draw up a schedule so far in advance without knowing the situation in both countries 6 months from now. The NBA themselves has only released a partial schedule.

The high ups at Rogers will probably disagree with you about the NHL not having huge TV deals. Fine, not the same level as the NFL, NBA, or MLB but Rogers and NBC won't be fine with the NHL saying "ya, were good. We'll just wait until September because bottom feeders Arizona and Florida can't afford to play without fans." Figure it out and start playing.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The high ups at Rogers will probably disagree with you about the NHL not having huge TV deals. Fine, not the same level as the NFL, NBA, or MLB but Rogers and NBC won't be fine with the NHL saying "ya, were good. We'll just wait until September because bottom feeders Arizona and Florida can't afford to play without fans." Figure it out and start playing.

Rogers Canadian TV deal is great for NHL... i am surprised it is so good really at 436M per year for 7 teams ... what sucks is nbc deal at 200M per year for 24 teams ... a great deal would be around 2.6B per year or thereabouts what da NBA gets per year ... think of NHL with over 3B per year in TV revenue ... divided by 31 teams equals 96.7M per team from national TV contract alone ... now you can understand why NBA plays basketball without fans ... and why NHL can't play with no fans ... very very simple economics at play here

 

[The CyNick]

The 7 Canadian teams will likely bubble in Edmonton (if they play at all) after world junior is over ... with a couple family breaks I would guess ... I can't see govt/owners allowing players to travel between games across provinces ... they would have to do everything possible to reduce costs while at same time maximizing TV revenues and ensuring players can recover between games so practices likely very limited ... but it will come down to how much owners think Bettman can get with next US TV deal and how much impact not playing 2020/21 season will have on that $$$ maker ... that is da real negotiation behind da scenes going on here ...

I guess anything it's possible, but I had heard hubs are a non starter. The other leagues are travelling or did travel and by and large things are fine. Yes, some hiccups, but fine overall.

You gotta think from a players perspective. The hub for the previous play in-play offs was tolerable because of the 24 teams invited 8 were out in a week or so and 8 more out within a couple weeks of that.

Say the season starts Feb 1st. I have a hard time believing players would agree to be away from their families for 5-6 months. I think most players would say take a lap on that one especially when the NBA is planning to travel, the NFL and MLB have been travelling.

The risk of spread for a travelling NHL team is very minor. And beyond that, were talking about the flu not the plague. But that's a post for another day.

 

[Fogelhund]

Insider Trading: Frustration from NHL ownership is growing - TSN.ca

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Warden of the North]

I thnk Feb 1st-ish

 

[Mess]

This all Canadian Div idea would be pretty hoaky when it would come to keeping the tradition and integrity of the winning the Stanley Cup intact.

1st - We're talking about a 48 game schedule not a full 82 to start.
2nd - An all Canadian div would mean Canadian teams would only play the other 6 teams in Canada during the regular season (8 times each) and none of the 21 USA based teams to get into the playoffs.
3rd - The Canadian winner in the playoffs would see 4 of the 7 Canadian based teams make the playoffs and then play off in rounds #1 and #2 and then join the real playoffs in progress in round #3.
4th - Once the Canadian winner left Canada they could no longer return due to closed borders so would need to play all home games in rounds #3 and #4 in a neutral zone USA based local.

5th - Most important the Canadian Div winner who only needed to beat out 3 other Canadian teams to qualify for the playoffs (very low bar) but then could only face a maximum of 2 USA based teams (1 X in round #3) and then the last in the Stanley Cup finals).

A Canadian based team could theoretically win the Stanley Cup by beating out the other 6 Canadian teams, and beating 2 maximum only of the 24 USA based ones. Playing only 8 of the 31 teams this season and NEVER playing a single game against 19 USA based teams (= essentially not facing ~75% of the rest of the NHL teams).

A USA based team on the other hand would need to play 23 other USA based teams and the winner of the Canadian Div for 24 of 31 teams and only miss playing 6 Canadian teams the opposite percentage of facing + > 75% and not facing < 25% (the 6 Canadian teams that don't make it to round #3).

There would be no parity and no consistency and would make a mockery of the Stanley Cup winning tradition. IMO

** If this is the NHL's plan to play the 2020-21 season, then put me down for cancelling the season entirely and starting up on time in Sept 2021 for the 2021-22 season for a full 82 game season (post vaccination) and safe to play normalcy again.

 

[Nineteen67]

This all Canadian Div idea would be pretty hoaky when it would come to keeping the tradition and integrity of the winning the Stanley Cup intact.

1st - We're talking about a 48 game schedule not a full 82 to start.
2nd - An all Canadian div would mean Canadian teams would only play the other 6 teams in Canada during the regular season (8 times each) and none of the 21 USA based teams to get into the playoffs.
3rd - The Canadian winner in the playoffs would see 4 of the 7 Canadian based teams make the playoffs and then play off in rounds #1 and #2 and then join the real playoffs in progress in round #3.
4th - Once the Canadian winner left Canada they could no longer return due to closed borders so would need to play all home games in rounds #3 and #4 in a neutral zone USA based local.

5th - Most important the Canadian Div winner who only needed to beat out 3 other Canadian teams to qualify for the playoffs (very low bar) but then could only face a maximum of 2 USA based teams (1 X in round #3) and then the last in the Stanley Cup finals).

A Canadian based team could theoretically win the Stanley Cup by beating out the other 6 Canadian teams, and beating 2 maximum only of the 24 USA based ones. Playing only 8 of the 31 teams this season and NEVER playing a single game against 19 USA based teams (= essentially not facing ~75% of the rest of the NHL teams).

A USA based team on the other hand would need to play 23 other USA based teams and the winner of the Canadian Div for 24 of 31 teams and only miss playing 6 Canadian teams the opposite percentage of facing + > 75% and not facing < 25% (the 6 Canadian teams that don't make it to round #3).

There would be no parity and no consistency and would make a mockery of the Stanley Cup winning tradition. IMO

I think they’d create 4 division and you’d only play within your division until the semi finals.

Anything without fans and regular schedule is an asterisk Cup

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think they’d create 4 division and you’d only play within your division until the semi finals.

Anything without fans and regular schedule is an asterisk Cup

Agree this one is asterisk cup, also because of scheduling imbalance and length, plus reasons you say.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I guess anything it's possible, but I had heard hubs are a non starter. The other leagues are travelling or did travel and by and large things are fine. Yes, some hiccups, but fine overall.

You gotta think from a players perspective. The hub for the previous play in-play offs was tolerable because of the 24 teams invited 8 were out in a week or so and 8 more out within a couple weeks of that.

Say the season starts Feb 1st. I have a hard time believing players would agree to be away from their families for 5-6 months. I think most players would say take a lap on that one especially when the NBA is planning to travel, the NFL and MLB have been travelling.

The risk of spread for a travelling NHL team is very minor. And beyond that, were talking about the flu not the plague. But that's a post for another day.

I think that is what most players want for sure. But owners will be tight with cash this season, if there is a season, and travel is very expensive with no revenue offset. There might be bubble(s) to start especially in canada. And if there is a bubble there will be 2-3 breaks in schedule allowing for family returns. But we will see. I don't see players moving at all on deal struck on CBA. and longer it goes and less games possible to be played for TV the less likely it is owners will allow play as losses grow daily as TV payout reduces with a smaller schedule. I think this is all very calculated by Jacobs. Bettman already has been put in a bad position. and it could get worse if US TV/national media deal is less likely. I hope we play a season but it appears less likely. As an older fan, season ticket holder and sponsor who parked in 2020/21 most of us would like season cancelled for selfish reasons. It is not same watching games on TV. You can't understand and get a complete picture of game.

 

[Mess]

I think they’d create 4 division and you’d only play within your division until the semi finals.

Anything without fans and regular schedule is an asterisk Cup

Lets just put that in context alone.

A 48 game regular season and Canadian division would see every team play each other 8 times each to eliminate 3 teams.

Then the remaining 4 teams would play best of 7 series in round #1 and #2 to declare a Div winner however that would mean 8 regular season games & potentially another best of 7 playoff games against the very same opponents = 15 games X 2 (after rounds #1 and #2 playoffs) to determine winner and move on to round #3 in USA.

So over the course of 4 months (Jan - April) we could see the Leafs beat up on Ottawa 8 times (regular season) and then play against Winnipeg or Calgary or whomever 15 times (playoffs rounds #1 and #2) during that span and then join the USA already in progress playing 2 more rounds 3 & 4 (maximum 14 games against only 2 of 24 USA based teams).

Is that really the option the NHL is considering on the table to declare the 2020-21 Stanley Cup winner and play this season in a pandemic?

 

[The CyNick]

I think that is what most players want for sure. But owners will be tight with cash this season, if there is a season, and travel is very expensive with no revenue offset. There might be bubble(s) to start especially in canada. And if there is a bubble there will be 2-3 breaks in schedule allowing for family returns. But we will see. I don't see players moving at all on deal struck on CBA. and longer it goes and less games possible to be played for TV the less likely it is owners will allow play as losses grow daily as TV payout reduces with a smaller schedule. I think this is all very calculated by Jacobs. Bettman already has been put in a bad position. and it could get worse if US TV/national media deal is less likely. I hope we play a season but it appears less likely. As an older fan, season ticket holder and sponsor who parked in 2020/21 most of us would like season cancelled for selfish reasons. It is not same watching games on TV. You can't understand and get a complete picture of game.

I agree with your points and share your feelings. I had just heard bubble was a non starter. 4-5 months is a long time to be away, even with a couple breaks in there.

If I were a betting man, I would bet on no season, but I do hope they play.