What would it take for a modern coach to challenge Scotty Bowman for greatest coach of all time?

[Goose]

Bowman's stats:

Games Coached: 2141
Wins: 1244
Point %: .657
Stanley Cups as HC: 9
5x Montreal 70s: 16-18 teams in league
1x Pittsburgh 92: 22 teams in league
3x Detroit: 26-30 teams in league

Obviously, his coaching record is amazing. Given the number of teams in the league and the parity these days, it's extremely unlikely another coach will ever win 9 Stanley Cups again.

At the same time, it's not reasonable to expect a modern coach to match his total, given that five of Bowman's championships came during the 70s, when he was competing against half as many teams and when parity was significantly worse. His first five championships came with one of the richest teams in a non salary cap era, where winning the cup took three series of postseason play, not four.

Also, his Pittsburgh championship is probably the closest thing a coach in any major sport has ever come to being gifted a championship given the circumstances of it (only inheriting that monstrous Lemieux-Coffee-Jagr-Francis Penguins team because Bob Johnson was diagnosed with brain cancer the summer after winning the first of the Penguins back-to-back championships.)

Personally, I think if any modern-era coach manages to win 5-6 Stanley Cups, and gets close to Bowman's point % over 1500+ games, they're right there in the conversation with him. However, even that lower bar seems very unlikely, given that this is where the leading candidates sit:

Jon Cooper, 2 cups, 893GC/532W, .638 P%,
57 years old, may potentially reach 1800+ games.

Mike Sullivan, 2 cups, 851GC/451W .599 P%
56 years old, may potentially reach 1800+ games

Jared Bednar, 1 cup, 633GC/348W .597 P%
52 years old, may potentially reach 1900+games

Dan Bylsma, 1 cup, 580GC/326W, .610 P%
54 years old, may potentially reach 1750+ games

Bruce Cassidy, 1 cup, 687GC/397W, .637 P%
59 years old, may potentially reach 1500+ games

*Potential games is an estimate of how many games they might coach if they consistently coached to the age Bowman retired (69).

The only coach without a Stanley Cup that's close to being on track with a bit of a sample size is Keefe, whose 366GC with 222 wins has a .664 P% at age 44. Keefe has the potential of coaching 2,000+ games if he coaches as long as Bowman did.

There is no active coach with more than 2 cups, Quenneville is the closest with 3, and a 1768/.612 line after retiring at age 64. Maurice/Laviolette/Berube is out because their point/winning percentage isn't going to crack it.

I think the only person with any real chance is Cooper. If he managed to win another 3 cups in the next 12 years, and ended up with something like a .650 P% with 5 cups over 1800 games, I think I'd rank him neck-and-neck with Bowman, though of course 3 cups in the next 12 seasons is highly unlikely.

Curious what others think it would take for a modern coach to challenge Bowman for the greatest coach of all time and the chances we'll ever see it happen?

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[Albatros]

Win 10 cups. No one's going to be the greatest in history with five, even if all of them were won after 2024. Sure, if someone builds the greatest dynasty out of nothing then one can always discuss.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Need to win a cup for a cursed franchise. Like Leafs, Canucks, Sabres, etc.

 

[Goose]

Win 10 cups. No one's going to be the greatest in history with five, even if all of them were won after 2024. Sure, if someone builds the greatest dynasty out of nothing then one can always discuss.

Makes a lot of sense. The Herculean task of matching 9 cups isn’t good enough in an era when it’s exponentially more difficult to win cups, this magical coach actually has to win more.

 

[Albatros]

Makes a lot of sense. The Herculean task of matching 9 cups isn’t good enough in an era when it’s exponentially more difficult to win cups, this magical coach actually has to win more.

Bowman won four cups when the league was at its best, in addition to his five with the Habs dynasty.

 

[Goose]

Bowman won four cups when the league was at its best, in addition to his five with the Habs dynasty.

Okay.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Nobody is going to challenge Bowman. There is too much parity in the league. I can't see the NHL ever getting rid of the cap and walking away from parity, especially given how expansion-happy it is. Every time expansion happens the elite talent gets spread more thin. No way a team can become a Cup dynasty under those circumstances that would allow a coach to win a large amount of Cups. Bowman's place as greatest in NHL history is very safe.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

Don’t forget the other 5 Stanley Cups his name is tied to (the director of player development for the 1991 Penguins, consultant for the 2008 Red Wings and senior advisor of hockey operations for the 2010, 2013, and 2015 Chicago Blackhawks). I believe it would take the second coming of Christ for a coach to win 9 cups let alone ending their career with 14.

 

[BlueSeal]

Quite overrated when a 'new' team from the second six was guaranteed a shot at the Cup.

The rest I will leave to comment.

 

[Grifter3511]

Bowman won four cups when the league was at its best, in addition to his five with the Habs dynasty.

If you mean pre salary cap and parity, then you're correct.

 

[Albatros]

If you mean pre salary cap and parity, then you're correct.

What is parity? When Detroit won cups in the 1990s the gap between the best and the worst teams in the league was smaller than now.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Win at least five cups in three different decades.

 

[Shark Finn]

How many adjusted-to-2024 Cups Bowman has won?

 

[bobholly39]

I think 2 mini dynasties gets the conversation started. Along with a long strong career overall.

Examples:

Mike Sullivan won back to backs in Pittsburgh....and floundering since (can't believe they haven't fired him yet lol). Imagine Pittsburgh fires him in 2019....and he ends up in....St Louis, and wins 3 cups with them. That's 2 mini dynasties. Hell of an impact. Tack onto that a long and successful career, and he'd be looked at extremely positively.

Or Jon Cooper....imagine Tampa makes it to round 3 this year. but at the end - he and Tampa part ways amicably...he goes to join San Jose - and wins 4 cups with them in 9 years. 2 mini dynasties. Same as above, even more impactful

 

[benfranklin]

Meh the 70s Habs ones get a huge asterisk. Now with parity, it would be a lot tougher. Win 4 in a decade and have longevity with consistently good teams and its comparable.

 

[ShootIt]

Need to win a cup for a cursed franchise. Like Leafs, Canucks, Sabres, etc.

So Paul Maurice with the Panthers?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

So Paul Maurice with the Panthers?

Would have to be like Maurice winning one or two more with the Panthers leaving and then winning another one or two somewhere else.

 

[Voight]

Honestly, nothing short of matching him in at least cup wins.

 

[Acallabeth]

Coaching two franchises to the modern dynasty level (like the Hawks) would be enough to start this discussion IMO. It's the foundation of Bowman's reputation, and winning 3 Cups in our era is more impressive than winning 5 with the 70s Habs.

 

[ShootIt]

Would have to be like Maurice winning one or two more with the Panthers leaving and then winning another one or two somewhere else.

I didn't seriously think Maurice was on the same level.

Just the whole part about winning a cup with a curse franchise part lol

 

[GeeoffBrown]

There are a few things going against a modern coach:

-Salary cap prevents superteams like the Canadiens and Red Wings under Scotty
-Teams will just fire a coach strategically to get the "new coach boost"
-I feel like the game is changing is really quickly, where things that worked 10 years ago don't work anymore

 

[BagHead]

Greatest by which measure? If all we care about are numbers, the question is easy to answer and there's hardly any need for a discussion.

Personally, I think a coach who does more with less is a great coach, but that's more subjective and invites argument without a clear victor. In this vein, who was the greatest? That's hard to judge. Was Jacques Lemaire a worse coach than Scotty Bowman just because he had worse talent on the roster to work with? He still did quite a lot of damage with the limited talent he was offered with most of his rosters and changed the tactical landscape of the NHL, but won only one Cup as a coach.

 

[HockeyVirus]

So Paul Maurice with the Panthers?

I think if Berube brings the cup to both St. Louis and Toronto ending historical droughts for each that would cement him up there with him for example. So Maurice could be there if he can win a cup somewhere else

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Scotty Bowman is the only coach since World War 2 to win a cup with more than 1 team.

Not just that, But Bowman won with 3 different teams.
Then to top it all off, he was an advisor to the Hawks dynasty.

His name is on the cup 14 times.
9 times as a coach.



Someone has got to start winning a lot more cups to challenge Scotty.

 

[dragonballgtz]

Scotty Bowman is the only coach since World War 2 to win a cup with more than 1 team.

Not just that, But Bowman won with 3 different teams.
Then to top it all off, he was an advisor to the Hawks dynasty.

His name is on the cup 14 times.
9 times as a coach.



Someone has got to start winning a lot more cups to challenge Scotty.

There was a clear drop in brain trust power when he left the Wings.