What would happen if there is no OHL season?

[AttackSound]

Regardless of what will happen in the short-term the OHL will return, now when that happens there's still a lot of unknowns yet to overcome but it will return.

The OHL will have to wait and see when they get the green light and the go ahead to get things rolling, and things will change to adapt to getting things rolling in OHL again safely but it will.

I have faith we will see OHL hockey this fall now how long or short that will be the real question but things are looking promising moving forward each and every day, whether that means it will be a full 68 game schedule or 40 as the league announced they league will have a season it may just not be until the fall.

What will change will be costs of stuff will go up to offset lost revenue from one season not played but CHL/OHL hockey will return., and when it does I will continue to support my hometown Owen Sound Attack when the season and OHL returns.

 

[Otto]

Regardless of what will happen in the short-term the OHL will return, now when that happens there's still a lot of unknowns yet to overcome but it will return.

The OHL will have to wait and see when they get the green light and the go ahead to get things rolling, and things will change to adapt to getting things rolling in OHL again safely but it will.

I have faith we will see OHL hockey this fall now how long or short that will be the real question but things are looking promising moving forward each and every day, whether that means it will be a full 68 game schedule or 40 as the league announced they league will have a season it may just not be until the fall.

What will change will be costs of stuff will go up to offset lost revenue from one season not played but CHL/OHL hockey will return., and when it does I will continue to support my hometown Owen Sound Attack when the season and OHL returns.

I don't think things will go up that much if at all. Owners realize that a lot of people gave not been recieving regular pay cheques. They have to be careful not to price themselves out of the market

 

[OHLTG]

I don't think things will go up that much if at all. Owners realize that a lot of people gave not been recieving regular pay cheques. They have to be careful not to price themselves out of the market

I was just going to post this. Owners have lost a lot of money, but raising prices to regain revenue is close to a death wish. Even pre-COVID, fans were skeptical about prices. Imagine upping tickets to $25+? Food is $10 instead of $7? Beer is $12-15? They're better off keeping prices the same, or even discounts. People want to see live hockey, but aren't going to pay through the nose. Keep prices down, fans will come.

 

[windsor7]

I don't think things will go up that much if at all. Owners realize that a lot of people gave not been recieving regular pay cheques. They have to be careful not to price themselves out of the market

Prices r near the top already.

 

[Zebra]

At this point -I would pay just about anything to see live hockey again!

Yes- I am that desperate

 

[sirius67fan]

At this point -I would pay just about anything to see live hockey again!

Yes- I am that desperate

Amen brother...or sister!

 

[cupcrazyman]

Everyone would save money that they could use on other things.
No big deal.

Like hoarding rookie cards.

 

[Flukeshot]

I think the only return scenario would be one that is Safe, Profitable and Worthwhile for the players. That means Bubble, TV/Corporate Contract and long enough and serious enough for competitive games that players can develop and/or be evaluated by NHL scouts.

Could the OHL or CHL as a whole generate enough revenue to justify a top prospects tournament? Would there be enough viewership? I feel like just about any live sporting action could generate a TV market. Then you just revenue share with the teams if there is actually any profit.

Some immediate concerns, highly unlikely any Import players could/would be involved, even our American neighbours might not be permitted in. If they could, it would be REALLY cool to have a team made of just US Prospects.

 

[OMG67]

I think the only return scenario would be one that is Safe, Profitable and Worthwhile for the players. That means Bubble, TV/Corporate Contract and long enough and serious enough for competitive games that players can develop and/or be evaluated by NHL scouts.

Could the OHL or CHL as a whole generate enough revenue to justify a top prospects tournament? Would there be enough viewership? I feel like just about any live sporting action could generate a TV market. Then you just revenue share with the teams if there is actually any profit.

Some immediate concerns, highly unlikely any Import players could/would be involved, even our American neighbours might not be permitted in. If they could, it would be REALLY cool to have a team made of just US Prospects.

No return for anything “this season” is profitable.

NHL games are on TV in a condensed schedule every night. SportsNet and TSN are jammed with hockey and basketball. The OHL/CHL doesn’t have anywhere near enough pull to be anything other than a Community TV broadcast right now.

A bubble isn’t viable financially. The NHL is struggling financially as well. It is propped up by Billionaires and I highly doubt they will fork over the type of coin required to set up anything meaningful for the CHL.

One of the options discussed for the NHL draft is two drafts next June. It would essentially delay the upcoming June draft for one year. It would allow the players a full development year next season to replace the one they lost this year. That is far more viable than spending tens of millions propping up a CHL season for the purposes of evaluating Junior Players.

We also need to keep in mind that the NHL draft doesn’t just comprise of CHL players. They draft out of USA and Europe as well. All of the leagues have been upended. The NHL would also need to evaluate those players. Waiting a year is probably the best solution.

So, considering all that, the OHL needs to determine what is best for their league. If they feel they need to operate at a loss for the purposes of continuity, then it will be up to the OHL to figure out how to do it. If there is value in it for the NHL to help support in some way, then so be it but I doubt the NHL will contribute on $$$. IF they were going to do it, they would have already done it to help the QMJHL.

I am still on the fence as to whether the league truly has the desire to operate this season. My gut feeling is they don’t have the desire to make the types of sacrifices.

 

[Flukeshot]

No return for anything “this season” is profitable.

NHL games are on TV in a condensed schedule every night. SportsNet and TSN are jammed with hockey and basketball. The OHL/CHL doesn’t have anywhere near enough pull to be anything other than a Community TV broadcast right now.

A bubble isn’t viable financially. The NHL is struggling financially as well. It is propped up by Billionaires and I highly doubt they will fork over the type of coin required to set up anything meaningful for the CHL.

One of the options discussed for the NHL draft is two drafts next June. It would essentially delay the upcoming June draft for one year. It would allow the players a full development year next season to replace the one they lost this year. That is far more viable than spending tens of millions propping up a CHL season for the purposes of evaluating Junior Players.

We also need to keep in mind that the NHL draft doesn’t just comprise of CHL players. They draft out of USA and Europe as well. All of the leagues have been upended. The NHL would also need to evaluate those players. Waiting a year is probably the best solution.

So, considering all that, the OHL needs to determine what is best for their league. If they feel they need to operate at a loss for the purposes of continuity, then it will be up to the OHL to figure out how to do it. If there is value in it for the NHL to help support in some way, then so be it but I doubt the NHL will contribute on $$$. IF they were going to do it, they would have already done it to help the QMJHL.

I am still on the fence as to whether the league truly has the desire to operate this season. My gut feeling is they don’t have the desire to make the types of sacrifices.

I certainly do not have any information to disagree with you.

Do we know if the World Juniors was profitable this year? You are right about TV scheduling, and the World Jrs got in there before the NHL return. I'm thinking though there may be a sweet spot between the end of the NFL season and the beginning of MLB.

Certainly I don't think it is a true CHL/OHL return. More the CHL/OHL running a prospects tournament with the players they have at their disposal.

The CHL players are actually at a disadvantage. Many European leagues are still playing, I think all/most the guys taken in the Import Draft are active right now. USHL is going, some NCAA action. The CHL is under no obligation to make sure that NHL scouts see their players enough so I won't pretend that should be a motive to play. I just feel bad for these guys, their only leverage is how important CHL players are to the NHL draft. If this were the European leagues not playing while North American ones were operating, would this even be a topic?

 

[beast mode]

If it wasn’t an important draft for the new expansion team ( Seattle Kraken) there wouldn’t be a draft this year and the timing would be perfect to change the eligibility to 19 years old. Its so hard in my mind to see hockey all over the world except in Ontario ( WHL set to start soon). I never expected our prime minister Mr. Ford would ignore that Junior teams are playing or have already played everywhere else in the world but here. The best Junior league of all with nearly 300 players currently in the NHL is the only one not supported by our government its soooo disappointing.

 

[OMG67]

If it wasn’t an important draft for the new expansion team ( Seattle Kraken) there wouldn’t be a draft this year and the timing would be perfect to change the eligibility to 19 years old. Its so hard in my mind to see hockey all over the world except in Ontario ( WHL set to start soon). I never expected our prime minister Mr. Ford would ignore that Junior teams are playing or have already played everywhere else in the world but here. The best Junior league of all with nearly 300 players currently in the NHL is the only one not supported by our government its soooo disappointing.

I really don’t think it is an important draft for the Kraken froma perspective of timing. At best, they would get their first round pick to play NHL with a June 2021 draft. Even then, it is somewhat of a stretch. They wouldn’t have any players from that draft actually play within their development system anyway as all players would most likely stay in their Junior programs and lower development leagues in Europe.

I think it is better for the Kraken to have the time to actually scout players for a full Junior season as opposed to making their final evaluation based on some mini-tournament which seems, for some reason, to hold some sort of value.

The OHL Cup holds very little value for the OHL teams scouting players. By the time the OHL Cup is played, teams typically have their draft lists prepared. Sure, they may move a few players around based on outstanding or eye opening performances, but for the most part, the OHL Cup carries very little weight from an evaluation perspective. I believe that would be the same if the NHL were to sponsor some sort of prospect tournament.

With respect to Doug Ford, I believe he is motivated to finding a solution for the OHL. However, the OHL owners need to decide how much money they are willing to lose playing a season. That isn’t up to Doug Ford. If the OHL doesn’t have a season, it is much more likely the Owners made that decision, not a politician.

 

[beast mode]

It was mentioned by Pierre Lebrun and it made sense the way he explained it. Seattle apparently wants the 2021 draft to happen this summer. As for the OHL they have a couple plans and want to have a season. I don’t doubt it at all and its not their decision to restart or not at this point. They need approval by the government.

 

[OMG67]

It was mentioned by Pierre Lebrun and it made sense the way he explained it. Seattle apparently wants the 2021 draft to happen this summer. As for the OHL they have a couple plans and want to have a season. I don’t doubt it at all and its not their decision to restart or not at this point. They need approval by the government.

The OHL getting approval by the Government shouldn’t be a big issue. The Government has some input as to what can and cannot be done but at the end of the day, provided the league is willing to work within the guidelines and make necessary alterations to the SOP’s just like all other businesses have done, there is no reason why the OHL cannot operate.

The Challenges for the OHL are:
1> Does the OHL want to make SOP changes that potentially affect the play on the ice as well as heavily restricted scheduling that will likely include only intra-division games?
2> Does the OHL have the capacity to afford to lose millions of dollars knowing they will have next to zero revenue?
3> Will the OHL be willing to relocate US Based teams into Ontario to bypass the current Border closure and are the US Based teams willing to relocate?
4> Are there viable locations for the US based teams to relocate to? If not, is the OHL willing to have a season excluding the US Based teams?
5> Is the OHL willing to commit time, effort and money into restarting the league knowing they will have zero influence on whether teams will have access to their arenas from one week to the next?

The OHL needs answers internally to these questions. These are far more important than the Province allowing hockey. What people fail to understand is the Province has allowed hockey in every indoor rink that has been allowed to open since the start of the Pandemic. Provided the colour code allows the number of players to assemble, hockey has been played while respecting the Provincial Guidelines. This is no different for the OHL.

I guess I don’t understand why people seem to believe it is the Province that needs to allow the OHL to play and the decision is in their hands. The PRovince already has SOP’s for hockey and other leagues have adopted those SOPs and have played within them.

The only REAL issue right now is access to the indoor rinks and capacity in those rinks. The colour codes need to be Orange or better for the OHL to play. The possibility exists that the OHL may be able to negotiate the ability to play in Red Zones but that is a completely different conversation.

The one thing I know is it will be very difficult for the OHL to negotiate playing in Grey zones like the NHL has available to them. I can’t see the OHL providing restrictions that would be suitable for the Province. IT would probably require players to not live with billet families. Right now, it doesn’t look like the OHL is willing to go there for financial reasons.

 

[beast mode]

Ok you are serious iks... Qc gave a million to the 12 teams in the Q from the province, Manitoba is giving 600 000$ for shorten season. The no contact policy comes from our government. Without a proper exemption from Ford there will be no Junior hockey period. They need it like the NHL needed it.

In a 24-30 game season the 3 teams in the States can play in a division by themselves. The AHL is doing it.

 

[OMG67]

Ok you are serious iks... Qc gave a million to the 12 teams in the Q from the province, Manitoba is giving 600 000$ for shorten season. The no contact policy comes from our government. Without a proper exemption from Ford there will be no Junior hockey period. They need it like the NHL needed it.

In a 24-30 game season the 3 teams in the States can play in a division by themselves. The AHL is doing it.

It’s not “no contact.” It is no hitting.

I spoke to a Jr “A” Official and he said they were pretty much operating like it is an All-Star Game. Clearly there is contact. They blow the whistle a little quicker in the corners and in front of the net etc. Just no full body hitting into the boards or open ice. Proper body contact and maneuvering the contact is fine.

I’m not saying it is ideal but it has worked in the Jr “A” league in Eastern Ontario.

The 3 teams in the USA cannot play against themselves because it doesn’t resolve the Playoff issue. We aren’t anticipating the border to open for free crossing by the time the playoffs start so any intra-division games for US based teams would simply end with them not being able to enter Canada for Playoffs and vice-versa.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

At this point, the only thing I can see working is some sort of bubble showcase. Open it up to the entire league, not just draft eligibles, but don't make players come back from Europe or the AHL if they think they're better off there. Once you see how many players you can compile, put together some teams with coaching staffs and bubble it up. It's going to take a ton of funding but I think that's the least the government could do for the OHL at this point, since they have been acting like Phil the groundhog when he sees his shadow for the past 10 months.

 

[OMG67]

At this point, the only thing I can see working is some sort of bubble showcase. Open it up to the entire league, not just draft eligibles, but don't make players come back from Europe or the AHL if they think they're better off there. Once you see how many players you can compile, put together some teams with coaching staffs and bubble it up. It's going to take a ton of funding but I think that's the least the government could do for the OHL at this point, since they have been acting like Phil the groundhog when he sees his shadow for the past 10 months.

It may not be a ridiculous idea to bubble. I did the math and it isn't that bad.

If you consider each team would have 32 players and coaches, that means they'd need 16 rooms. Each room would be $80 per night since hotels are dirt cheap right now and I'm sure with some sponsorship and what not they could potentially do that even cheaper. So $40 per person per night. Food would be around $60 per person per day.

32 players and coaches
$100 per day per player-coach
14 day quarantine period
8 week regular season
3 round playoff
20 teams

Regular season $4.48mil
Playoffs $560k

So, hotel and food would cost a little over $5mil.

The Quebec Gov't supported the league to the tune of $12mil. If the Ontario Gov't kicked in $5mil (40% of what the QMJHL received), it would pay for the bubble.

Teams would have to honour one semester of school for each player scholarship. Obviously there would be training costs as well as shared league fees and officials etc.

It may not be particularly far fetched if that ends up being the most viable option.

However, the notion they'd do something just for the purpose of evaluation for the NHL doesn't make sense. The teams need to play in real game-league situations, otherwise it will be treated like a training camp.

 

[Otto]

It may not be a ridiculous idea to bubble. I did the math and it isn't that bad.

If you consider each team would have 32 players and coaches, that means they'd need 16 rooms. Each room would be $80 per night since hotels are dirt cheap right now and I'm sure with some sponsorship and what not they could potentially do that even cheaper. So $40 per person per night. Food would be around $60 per person per day.

32 players and coaches
$100 per day per player-coach
14 day quarantine period
8 week regular season
3 round playoff
20 teams

Regular season $4.48mil
Playoffs $560k

So, hotel and food would cost a little over $5mil.

The Quebec Gov't supported the league to the tune of $12mil. If the Ontario Gov't kicked in $5mil (40% of what the QMJHL received), it would pay for the bubble.

Teams would have to honour one semester of school for each player scholarship. Obviously there would be training costs as well as shared league fees and officials etc.

It may not be particularly far fetched if that ends up being the most viable option.

However, the notion they'd do something just for the purpose of evaluation for the NHL doesn't make sense. The teams need to play in real game-league situations, otherwise it will be treated like a training camp.

In order to actually "bubble" they would need to be the only ones in the hotel... that's going to cost a heck of a lot more than 16x$80

 

[windsor7]

Money is the only way ohl coming back this season.

 

[AttackSound]

It may not be a ridiculous idea to bubble. I did the math and it isn't that bad.

If you consider each team would have 32 players and coaches, that means they'd need 16 rooms. Each room would be $80 per night since hotels are dirt cheap right now and I'm sure with some sponsorship and what not they could potentially do that even cheaper. So $40 per person per night. Food would be around $60 per person per day.

32 players and coaches
$100 per day per player-coach
14 day quarantine period
8 week regular season
3 round playoff
20 teams

Regular season $4.48mil
Playoffs $560k

So, hotel and food would cost a little over $5mil.

The Quebec Gov't supported the league to the tune of $12mil. If the Ontario Gov't kicked in $5mil (40% of what the QMJHL received), it would pay for the bubble.

Teams would have to honour one semester of school for each player scholarship. Obviously there would be training costs as well as shared league fees and officials etc.

It may not be particularly far fetched if that ends up being the most viable option.

However, the notion they'd do something just for the purpose of evaluation for the NHL doesn't make sense. The teams need to play in real game-league situations, otherwise it will be treated like a training camp.

These numbers I believe are a bit off 32 staff it would be more like 37-40 staff and players combined cause each team has a stats guy and trainers and bus driver that they would have to pay for also.

Just to do one trip for a OHL team is well over $1,000 a day just in food even if you calculate that each player ate say $50-60 as you suggest it would be more like $2,000 a weekend. That's before accommodations.

 

[OMG67]

In order to actually "bubble" they would need to be the only ones in the hotel... that's going to cost a heck of a lot more than 16x$80

There's 20 teams sir. It isn't one team per hotel. It is multiple teams per hotel. The hotel is a bubble. That is what the NHL did.

 

[OMG67]

These numbers I believe are a bit off 32 staff it would be more like 37-40 staff and players combined cause each team has a stats guy and trainers and bus driver that they would have to pay for also.

Just to do one trip for a OHL team is well over $1,000 a day just in food even if you calculate that each player ate say $50-60 as you suggest it would be more like $2,000 a weekend. That's before accommodations.

It's not a trip.

It is multiple teams in one hotel for the duration of the abbreviated hockey season.

The only ones required to bubble are players, coaches and anyone else that comes into contact with the team. If it is 36 instead of 32, so be it. It doesn't significantly affect the numbers.

The point is, the OHL could have two bubbles with 10 teams each bubble. Accommodations and food would be in the $5-6mil range for the entire length of time required.

This would set up the exact same type of bubble the NHL set up.

I am not saying this is what they should do. I am saying this is viable "if" the Provincial Government were to help subsidize in a similar way the Quebec Government subsidized the QMJHL teams.

I am also not saying the Province of Ontario would subsidize the OHL. Lisa McLeod is on the record saying the league has not requested funds but that there is a Covid relief fund for sport in the Province with enough remaining funds to arguably provide $5-6mil.

The league has not publicly discussed this. I have no "inside information." All I am saying is this is what it would cost to set up this type of program for an abbreviated season with playoffs.

I understand there are still going to be a significant amount of additional expenses the league teams would need to add to make this happen. However, if this portion is covered in some manner through grants, loans and subsidies as well as maybe some marketing contra services, I think it is doable.

Will the players-families want to do it? I don't know. I assume some may opt out just like some in the other pro sports leagues did.

This is just a hypothetical with some numbers added for reference.

 

[AttackSound]

It may not be a ridiculous idea to bubble. I did the math and it isn't that bad.

If you consider each team would have 32 players and coaches, that means they'd need 16 rooms. Each room would be $80 per night since hotels are dirt cheap right now and I'm sure with some sponsorship and what not they could potentially do that even cheaper. So $40 per person per night. Food would be around $60 per person per day.

32 players and coaches
$100 per day per player-coach
14 day quarantine period
8 week regular season
3 round playoff
20 teams

Regular season $4.48mil
Playoffs $560k

So, hotel and food would cost a little over $5mil.

The Quebec Gov't supported the league to the tune of $12mil. If the Ontario Gov't kicked in $5mil (40% of what the QMJHL received), it would pay for the bubble.

Teams would have to honour one semester of school for each player scholarship. Obviously there would be training costs as well as shared league fees and officials etc.

It may not be particularly far fetched if that ends up being the most viable option.

However, the notion they'd do something just for the purpose of evaluation for the NHL doesn't make sense. The teams need to play in real game-league situations, otherwise it will be treated like a training camp.

Not to also count you would need to charter bus services on top of that which even for a day trip would cost well of $2,000 per-trip by the time you add the cost of a driver you'd have to have a staff of nearly 40 by the time you add the trainers on top of the players coaches and a bus or bus drivers in some teams cases like the Soo who every trip is close to 8-10 hours on average. Even if all the other numbers crunched were accurate I figure the whole season would be closer to 10 mill by the time you added up all the expenses.

The other thing you'd have to consider that if you could every team would have to leave 2 weeks before they played any games which means it would be a closer to nearly a month to do a road trip no team could afford that in this league.

Looking at what you suggested you'd have to consider that for every one team to do a simple trip even if it were short say 2 hours away thats 2 weeks of hotels for say even if you did doubleheaders for every team if would cost twice as much cause teams would be stuck in cities for weeks at a time.

That would cost a team nearly 60k a trip as you would not just have the players and coaches but drivers and medical staff and media. Right off the bat even using your numbers looking at what it would cost Owen Sound to do a trip would be ridiculous.

To do one trip for Owen Sound to even go to one city would be insane, 25 players, 3 coaches, 3 medical staff members, 1 radio guy, 1 stats guy that would be close to 35 people not 32 as you suggest. That would in theory cost almost double what you crunched it would cost team nearly 16 million to operate just for a regular season alone that's not including playoffs so double what you suggest.

 

[AttackSound]

It's not a trip.

It is multiple teams in one hotel for the duration of the abbreviated hockey season.

The only ones required to bubble are players, coaches and anyone else that comes into contact with the team. If it is 36 instead of 32, so be it. It doesn't significantly affect the numbers.

The point is, the OHL could have two bubbles with 10 teams each bubble. Accommodations and food would be in the $5-6mil range for the entire length of time required.

This would set up the exact same type of bubble the NHL set up.

I am not saying this is what they should do. I am saying this is viable "if" the Provincial Government were to help subsidize in a similar way the Quebec Government subsidized the QMJHL teams.

I am also not saying the Province of Ontario would subsidize the OHL. Lisa McLeod is on the record saying the league has not requested funds but that there is a Covid relief fund for sport in the Province with enough remaining funds to arguably provide $5-6mil.

The league has not publicly discussed this. I have no "inside information." All I am saying is this is what it would cost to set up this type of program for an abbreviated season with playoffs.

I understand there are still going to be a significant amount of additional expenses the league teams would need to add to make this happen. However, if this portion is covered in some manner through grants, loans and subsidies as well as maybe some marketing contra services, I think it is doable.

Will the players-families want to do it? I don't know. I assume some may opt out just like some in the other pro sports leagues did.

This is just a hypothetical with some numbers added for reference.

Agreed these numbers are way off