Speculation: What Went Wrong?

[DiggityDog]

Well for starters you had an awful training camp being run by a guy who had one foot out the door.

You had a goaltender who, despite educating himself on business, still decided to make it personal. So this already non existent training camp had a giant cloud looming over it. Oh and to no ones surprise he comes out and plays like absolute shit. There's been some bangers in their don't get me wrong, but the overall performance? Guys a mountain to climb as far as getting all that good faith back he earned during last year's playoffs.

You've got new additions for key roles coming in, but again the head coach has one foot out the door so that integration is being phoned in.

Just about every single player, to a man, is having career worst seasons. Obviously a handful of guys are the exception, but its basically four bottom six guys and your number 5 defenseman.

Should they trade Marchand? Probably. Logically it is probably the right decision, but I am not sure even I would. Admittedly my connection to him is strictly emotional and nostalgic.

The only thing this team has going for it this year is the fact that the Eastern conference blows. Despite being as awful as they have been, they are still only 7 points out of first in the Atlantic.

 

[PlayMakers]

• Is this simply a lack of talent, or is something else going on?
  • They're not the most talented but this was something else. Surgeries, injuries, holdouts, system changes, coaching changes, young players not being ready, slow starts, out of shape players... it all led to guys playing well below their career averages.
• Did the Swayman contract negotiations break something in the dressing room?
  • I think it caused a rift at first, but I think they're past that now.
• Did Jim Montgomery entering the season as a lame duck, but seemingly not interested in extending his contract break something in the dressing room?
  • No, I think Monty trying to change to a hybrid system when his staff spent 10 years teaching a zone was more of an issue in the first quarter.
• Are there culture issues in the organization?
  • Yes. There is a lack of intense leadership after #63.
• Did any of the above influence the hiring of Zdeno Chara as a consultant with the organization?
  • Who knows? We don't know his role. Is he going to be around the players or management? He could be here to help rebuild the culture at the player level, or he could be here to influence player selection at the management level.
• What other changes are needed both on the roster, behind the bench, and in the front office?
  • I never agreed that they lacked speed. I think they lacked youth. Young legs drive the regular season because they play every game like it could be their last. We played the season with vets who pace themselves and we're not good enough to not play all-in.
  • They lacked talent. They knew it, they said as much before the season started, but Lindholm's failure really exacerbated the problem because instead of being one top6 forward short, they ended up being two. So talent is needed, two top6 forwards and one of them needs to be a bonafide first line forward.
  • Behind the bench, they need a complete overhaul. Get out all the good ole boys and get someone new in here who will embrace youth, new power play ideas, can teach a hybrid system, etc.
  • Front office? I don't know. I don't like Sweeney but I think he is a good GM. He's obviously highly respected by other GM's. I think he's done a good job for 8 of his 9 years. But I also think the team needs a change at ice level. Does Sweeney agree? Who knows, he never speaks and when he does it's in cliches. I want to see what he does at the deadline. I think that will give an indication of what direction he thinks we should go.
• Do you simply ride this season out?
  • No. I think fans would hate that. I think it puts you behind the 8 ball for next season. I think whatever we are going to become, needs to start March 7th.
• Elephant in the room: What becomes of the captain?
  • For Marchand to be traded, I think 3 things have to happen: 1) Marchand has to be on board with the move, 2) They can’t go on a run between now and the deadline (or Marchand won’t want to go) 3) there has to be an unwritten agreement that he comes back July 1st. Otherwise, we might as well forget the re-tool and go full rebuild.

 

[sarge88]

IMO there are 3 things that have doomed this team.

1. Swayman’s holdout and terrible start.
2. Lousy PK
3. Lousier PP

I could go into the personnel portion of 2 and 3, but I really think it’s more about their scheme (more PP, than PK) than the players.

Their reluctance to attack early in the pp, instead they constantly try to set up the perfect play.

Their passivity on the PK (even more when down 6 on 5) is another issue. Almost all teams sag, but this team seems to sag deeper than most.

 

[BradMarchandismydad]

We have non-elite centers

/thread

 

[NDiesel]

Talent finally won out. It's not the only thing, but it's at the top of the list.

Under the first two years of Monty, they'd overperformed their talent. Scoring goals and saving goals above expected. They were at the top of the league in PDO, but you can't expect that to last. It's swung the opposite direction, where they're one of the worst in PDO.

I'd say, purely looking at the talent, this was a 90, maybe 95 point team. They're currently on pace for 88 points, so that's really not a significant underperformance.

All of which is to say, I think what really went wrong is our expectations. Zacha, Coyle, and Frederic had career years that were unlikely to be repeated. They got 2023-24 Elias Lindholm, not the 2022-23 version, which they really needed. No one's really taken a step forward (as good as Geekie has been recently, he's only on pace for a few more points than last season).

I think this is where I'm at. No one expected the type of season we had when Bergy/Krejci left. The team and many players overperformed and I think we are finally seeing a good chunk of those players return to their baseline. Our goalies also hid a lot of issues the last 2 seasons I believe, we went from 2 elite goalies to now having two guys who are having below average seasons.

Team was bound to fall off eventually, I think the easy out is to blame a lack of training camp, coach change and Sway contract discussion. They competed well for 9 seasons, but they need a bit of a reset now I think.

 

[Kegs]

Players came to camp out of shape. Aging coyle. Goaltending hasn’t been as good. The top 3 defence has been injured for a substantial part of the season.

 

[RoccoF14]

I’ll preface this by stating that the season isn’t over by any stretch, and that the purpose of this thread is pure speculation.

However, with the team struggling, having fired the coach, having suffered multiple lopsided losses, and sporting a goal differential of -25, all of these factors beg certain questions.

• Is this simply a lack of talent, or is something else going on?
• Did the Swayman contract negotiations break something in the dressing room?
• Did Jim Montgomery entering the season as a lame duck, but seemingly not interested in extending his contract break something in the dressing room?
• Are there culture issues in the organization?
• Did any of the above influence the hiring of Zdeno Chara as a consultant with the organization?
• What other changes are needed both on the roster, behind the bench, and in the front office?
• Do you simply ride this season out?
• Elephant in the room: What becomes of the captain?

1. Both, but mostly talent. We needed a lot of things to fall into place all at the same time from a talent perspective. They haven't. We lost Ullmark, added Korpisalo and put more pressure on Swayman to step up, so nobody should have been shocked that our goaltending got worse. We lost over 50 goals in Free Agency, and added Lindholm, so nobody should be shocked that our offense is worse. Only thing I'm surprised by is how our blueline has performed. I also think we've become stale and too predictable to play against. I'd like to see a radically different coaching staff this coming summer, with a fresh perspective.

2. No I don't think Swayman's contract broke the dressing room. Sure, it didn't help, but putting that on Swayman is a cop out.

3. No idea. I thought Montgomery did a great job last year and over-achieved with that roster. This season, I thought he got left with a flawed roster, then panicked a little bit when we came out of the gates slow, and got schizophrenic with the line changes to try to figure out something that worked. I'm sure that him not having a contract extension played into that last part to some degree.

4. No, I don't think there is a culture issue.

5. Hiring Chara is a good move, regardless of how well we are performing.

6. I wanna see a Full coaching change and a fresh start behind the bench. Move expiring contracts, Rebuild on the fly. Swayman, McAvoy, the Lindholms, Zacha and Pastrnak are pieces you can build around.

7. Yes. I'm a seller this year. The fact that we still have an outside shot at the playoffs is fools gold, due to a weak Eastern Conference.

8. I'm trading Marchand at the deadline, if we get a reasonable offer.

 

[ODAAT]

I’ll preface this by stating that the season isn’t over by any stretch, and that the purpose of this thread is pure speculation.

However, with the team struggling, having fired the coach, having suffered multiple lopsided losses, and sporting a goal differential of -25, all of these factors beg certain questions.

• Is this simply a lack of talent, or is something else going on?
• Did the Swayman contract negotiations break something in the dressing room?
• Did Jim Montgomery entering the season as a lame duck, but seemingly not interested in extending his contract break something in the dressing room?
• Are there culture issues in the organization?
• Did any of the above influence the hiring of Zdeno Chara as a consultant with the organization?
• What other changes are needed both on the roster, behind the bench, and in the front office?
• Do you simply ride this season out?
• Elephant in the room: What becomes of the captain?

• poor UFA signings
• lack of high first round picks due to trades when going for it all
• not something I don`t believe you can blame on Mngt/Prez but having 3 HOF`ers hang them up in Z, DK and Bergy simply can`t be replaced
• Horrible vibe from training camp onward, having Sway hold out merely one issue
• total underperformance of players capable of so much more, Coyle, Freddy, Lindholm, Carlo, McAvoy
• Injury to H Lindholm

This type of year was bound to happen, I was one who was actually pretty optimistic about the Zadorov/Lindy signings but this roster is now playing like they simply don`t give a rats ass on most nights

1. Both. We needed a lot of things to fall into place all at the same time from a talent perspective. They haven't. I also think we've become stale and too predictable to play against. I'd like to see a radically different coaching staff this coming summer, with a fresh perspective.

2. No I don't think Swayman's contract broke the dressing room. Sure, it didn't help, but putting that on Swayman is a cop out.

3. No idea. I thought Montgomery did a great job last year and over-achieved with that roster. This season, I thought he got left with a flawed roster, then panicked a little bit when we came out of the gates slow, and got a little schizophrenic with the line changes to try to figure out something that worked. I'm sure that him not having a contract extension played into that last part to some degree.

4. No, I don't think there is a culture issue.

5. Hiring Chara is a good move, regardless of how well we are performing.

6. I wanna see a Full coaching change and a fresh start behind the bench. Move expiring contracts, Rebuild on the fly. Swayman, McAvoy, the Lindholms, Zacha and Pastrnak are pieces you can build around.

7. Yes. I'm a seller this year.

8. I'm trading Marchand at the deadline, if we get a reasonable offer.

I`m a seller too, if Marchand wants to stay, re-sign, if not, adios

 

[Mad-Marcus]

I like the Kastelic move(total Bruin), but can he stay healthy the way he plays. They lost some speed and responsibility w/o resigning Debrusk(he is what he is, 20+ goals a year, good PK'r Playoff mode Jake is great), Heinen(underrated Swiss army knife), Gryz(Mr Glass) and Boqvist. Don't get me wrong, neither are game changers, but the B's where so hell bent on beefing up for FLA that everyone else is faster than them.

 

[Bradely]

The obvious answer is training camp as they didn't have a normal one.

This:
- Monty
- Swayman contract issu + no training camp and heavy contract to support pressure
- Ullmark gone and the great contagious chemistry between both keepers gone.
- Injuries and surgical operation to key players (not the same training agenda)
- New players, time to adapt in those condition
- Leadership group is thiner to add.
- Team chemistry is IMO a problem

Alll of the above is a huge problem when winning is the only result that counts.

I would add this: - Do the new players really buy in the Boston Bruins culture? Some new guys come from losing organisation.....

 

[Clode]

I’ll preface this by stating that the season isn’t over by any stretch, and that the purpose of this thread is pure speculation.

However, with the team struggling, having fired the coach, having suffered multiple lopsided losses, and sporting a goal differential of -25, all of these factors beg certain questions.

• Is this simply a lack of talent, or is something else going on?
• Did the Swayman contract negotiations break something in the dressing room?
• Did Jim Montgomery entering the season as a lame duck, but seemingly not interested in extending his contract break something in the dressing room?
• Are there culture issues in the organization?
• Did any of the above influence the hiring of Zdeno Chara as a consultant with the organization?
• What other changes are needed both on the roster, behind the bench, and in the front office?
• Do you simply ride this season out?
• Elephant in the room: What becomes of the captain?

1. Its a big part but not the whole picture.

2. It was a
distraction for sure but its not something that should be season breaking.

3. Yes. When you have somebody coaching for their job they are going to make panic decisions which are rarely the right ones. It also signifies a lack of a clear direction for the organization which is one of the worst things you can have in professional sports.

4. Perhaps. Hard to say definitively for sure but management bringing in Chara makes me think management may be seeing some cracks in the foundation.

5. Yes, point 4.

6. At the deadline flip UFAs that they don't plan on re-signing for assets. In the off-season clean out the vanilla in the bottom 6 and replace them with puck hunters who forecheck like assholes and complimentary scorers who can skate. If you have to move a Coyle or Carlo to free up money then so be it. Re-sign Morgan Geekie to a reasonable contract. Don't trade your 1st unless its in a package for a 1C.

The entire coaching staff minus Goalie Bob needs to be booted. Bring in a Berube type who wont take any crap and let him put together his own staff unlike what they did with Montgomery.

For the front office I've already accepted that Sweeney and Neely are likely not going anywhere so my wish is for them to fire and rebuild their scouting staff, both professional and amateur.

7. Yes.

8. It should be left up to him to decide what happens, he has earned that much. However it is a business and if they could send Z out the door because they felt it was time then I don't see why they wouldn't with Marchand.

 

[EverettMike]

What if it's really, really simple?

Cause I think it is.


For 15 years the Bruins got world class goaltending and that covered up a lot of issues even on talented teams. This season, at the same time the roster got worse, they stopped getting that kind of goaltending.

 

[Aussie Bruin]

Problems tend to compound – one or two issues can be dealt with. But when you get a whole bunch of what are individually small problems piling up, the consequences can be significant. I think that’s what we’re seeing with the Bruins currently.

Forwards there is a clear lack of talent. The defense in principle probably has enough ability, but as I’ve said before IMO the construction is wrong when you try and put it all together. But whatever the roster limitations it’s obvious the issues go beyond that. Most of them have already been mentioned. Monty starting off with the wrong plan, panicking and then essentially giving up didn’t help. Their pre-season was a mess and they’ve never recovered since. Their fitness and conditioning seem lacking. The Sway situation, whoever was most at fault, rankled. Their general effort and compete are decent enough, but they’re horribly inconsistent, lack attention to detail, and seem to lack that little extra 5% of competitive drive and fire that the best teams have. Think it’s been an assumption that’s crept in over a long period of time that the Bruins will be competitive and make playoffs every year because that’s what they do. Somehow they always work it out. But now when it’s a really big struggle that won’t go away, they’re not sure what to do. Sacco is doing his best but he’s not a great coach. Put that all together and you have a team that’s down on confidence, fragile, uncertain and has nothing to galvanise it.

Are there cultural issues in the organization? Well there’s conservatism, an “old boys” tendency, reluctance to change, and a sense of comfortableness or complacency. The team itself really seems to lack leadership, which is not to blame any one individual, but simply to observe and call it as you see it. Standards have dropped. How damaging all of these are is very difficult to say. It was impossible that the Bruins could come out of the Chara/Bergeron era and maintain the culture and performance of that period without encountering some problems and challenges. Every team in this situation does. It’s a tough phase. Whether they could have handled it better, or how many of the problems are self-inflicted, are debatable. But the team falling into mediocrity is actually what should happen in these situations, nine times out of ten. So right from the start they’re trying to defy some pretty big odds.

Turning to the front office, with the exception of signing Kastelic, nothing Sweeney has done in the last 8 months has worked, at least not in the short-term. He hoped E Lindholm would shrug off a down year and return to his Calgary best. He hasn’t. Whether that’s largely due to injury, troubles integrating or whatever else, bottom line is he’s struggled badly. Don also hoped Zadorov could step up and be a regular and consistent top pair defender. He’s not. He’s tried the likes of Johnson and Wahlstrom to repeat the Heinen win – no joy.

He figured he could get the Swayman deal done quickly and amicably. That didn’t happen. Instead it got messy and caused negative ripples through the rest of the locker room, and to top it off Sway himself is not playing up to the contract he was eventually given. He banked on rehabilitating Korpisalo, and while Korpi has actually been ok, he’s not excelling and they clearly don’t dare use him much. $3 mil is quite a lot for a backup who plays as rarely as he does.

Sweeney also thought he could get away with the obvious lack of offense because the back end would hold up. And that the team getting bigger would pay off. Nope on both counts. And finally he changed coach, to very middling results. Just a horror run for the GM. Against that is a record over the previous 8 or so years where, while you can argue about the degree, I think on the whole it’s fairly safe to say he generally got more right than wrong. So now you’re asking the same question about him, and Neely too, as is asked about Lindholm – is this just a bump or the beginning of a permanent decline? Have they run their best race already in Boston and it’s time to change before things get worse? Personally I think fresh voices are needed but I appreciate it’s not a slam dunk argument.

What I really do truly believe though is the time to start making changes and looking ahead is now. To delay is just kicking the problem and the potential solutions down the road and wasting time. Write this season off and focus on the next couple and how they might be made more successful. It won’t be easy. They desperately need a 1C. Without it all else is just spinning plates. But look at the market. There are no UFAs on the horizon who present as even vaguely good candidates. So now you’re talking trade. But who? Do you gamble on a Miller, having already gambled on Lindholm and quite possibly lost? And what pieces are you sending in return, because they’re really not flush with those. And that’s just one need out of several, including better coaches. Tough ask. But the alternatives are a full rebuild or continuing mediocrity, both of which are unpalatable to most. Have to at least try a re-tool, and hope for the best. So get cracking.

 

[Blowfish]

Season ain't over but if it were...Swayman crap, Swayman bad play crap, Lindholm injury, and new Lindholm disappointment.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

It's a GM incapable putting a core together because he can't get a top line centre .

He had clear opportunities getting Barzal and Thomas and ****ed it up, plain & simple.

 

[22Brad Park]

He had clear opportunities getting Barzal and Thomas and ****ed it up, plain & simple.

Butcher..Should work in a meat shop not a GMs office

 

[Beyonder]

Over the past two seasons, they lost a lot of talent and leadership. Most of the best players from the previous regime are gone now and those were some very good players. All-stars, Captains, top line players at their positions, even some Hall of Famers.

That created a big hole to fill. And they have not done a great job of filling it. To be fair, that's not easy and many teams go through tough times when the previous, winning roster eventually drifts away. Almost every team goes through these cycles, it's not automatically the case that the GM screwed things up. Your best players are always here for only a certain amount of time and eventually you start over.

Still, I don't feel that Sweeney has done a fantastic job of building the new version of the team and I'm not sure that his vision of what a winning team should look like circa 2025 is the right one. As of now, they don't have enough talent, they are not fast enough, they aren't getting enough contribution from home grown players obtained in the past 5 years, they don't seem to have ideal leadership, and more. I don't have a lot of trust in the players they draft or who they spend the big money on, from outside at least. It's not all bad news... but it's not enough good news. To me.

I'm on the side that says that fresh management leadership and a different vision for the team is important going forward. Sweeney has actually had this job for a good stretch of time. There have been some real successes. I don't think it's heresy to suggest that for the next 10 years, well, maybe it's time for a new approach. I don't really like the idea of letting him chip away at this to see if it can be patched up. For one thing, if the situation remains that they are expected to just win and he's under the gun to find quick solutions, that's a very reactive position to be in and the current roster is somewhat the consequence of that. Some of what needs to happen takes time and is painful - is GMDS the person who will embrace that and get you through it?

 

[IveGotToBeMe]

We have non-elite centers

/thread

This right here 100%. From 2006 through 2023 you had Bergeron and Krejci, both elite and both strong offensively and defensively. We were spoiled and only could generate one cup. Not to say there shouldn't have been others but we've not had to worry about the center position for nearly 20 years.