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What was the narrative about Hasek from pre-2002?

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blindNYR said:
...was there talk that he couldn't win the big one and wasn't a big game performer in the playoffs?
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Ha. Ha.

In the '92 Stanley Cup Finals, after Belfour was pulled early in the 1st period when giving up goals to Jagr and Stevens, Hasek stopped multiple Stevens and Lemieux shots - including the iconic one against Mario in the Mastercard commercial - plus against Jagr, Francis, Trottier and others, in a valiant effort that had Scotty Bowman shaking his head:


Two years later in 1994, an epic 70 saves against cup-champs Devils (if you didn't screen him or get rebounds, he was unbeatable - as this exemplifies):


Then 1998 the gold medal Olympic win:


Then came his legendary dragging of a group of nobodies (plus Peca) to a bad official call in OT of Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals (MANY FANS THOUGHT THE FIX WAS IN - i thought it ref incompetence/mistake).

Before he could come to the NHL, Hasek represented Czechoslovakia in the 1984, 1987 and 1991 Canada Cups, with clutch performances but not enough scoring to win a tourney.

Hasek was always seen as clutch but lacking all-time great skaters as teammates until his third decade of hockey in Detroit.

He is the best goaltender of all time.

He is arguably the 'greatest', though Roy had sweeter teams to bank trophies.
 
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I don't remember very much of the 'well, he isnt a winner, so....' BS. I think it was clear that he did everything he could in big games. 98 helped a lot.

However, I definitely do still remember something of a 'glass half full' approach. Wins became a very big thing soon after Hasek's prime ended and Brodeur began his run of Vezinas. He was also called 'flaky' a lot, which, true or not, was overtalked about considering Roy and Belfour (and many more) had strange attitudes/problems with the law, etc.

I don't think the general ethos out there ever depicted him as a non-winner, or big game player, yet, I still think there was a, perhaps subliminal, desire to have him behind Roy and Brodeur. In fact, I think this exists today, in people i know and a quick google search of 'best goalies ever'
 
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I would even go as far that winning with that 2002 squad did not do that much for him, loosing could have, but winning with that loaded of a team just felt natural and did not move the opinion of players that were on the squad that much. He was a bit lost in a sea of legends.

I remember reading in the 2010s or 2020s people mentioning reached the finals once, forgetting he won the cup with Wings, 1999 was probably bigger for his career reputation than actually winning in 2002.

Would he have won again with the Sens (like they did seem they had good chance to do), that would have been bigger.
 
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it existed, because people are people and he was a european goalie, but it wasn’t a widely circulated talking pt, iirc.

but remember, pre-2002 no european had won the conn smythe, although fedorov maybe should have. and no team had won with a euro starting goalie until khabibulin in 2004.

my first glimpse of hasek was game four of the 92 finals. killer pad stack on i think mario or stevens on a breakaway.
 
vadim sharifijanov said:
but remember, pre-2002 no european had won the conn smythe, although fedorov maybe should have. and no team had won with a euro starting goalie until khabibulin in 2004.
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see what I mean ;)
MadLuke said:
people mentioning reached the finals once, forgetting he won the cup with Wings,
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P.S. well aware here that the writer know he won in 2002 in this context... it is a joke.
 
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Hasek remains the best career save percentage in NHL history despite the majority of games played not with teams with HHOFers (technically tied with Dryden, who did it with for only 8 years on a dynasty team) .

From age 37 to 43, at the tail end of his 16-year career, he was in Detroit, and like Fetisov, many hockey fans remember 'competent' old Euro in Motortown rather than their truly greatness elsewhere (Russians know Fetisov was much better than Datsyuk; Czechs know Hasek was better than Jagr,... ESPECIALLY in the clutch, on the biggest stages, when it mattered most!!!)
 
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Any idea that he couldn't take a team far was laid to rest in 1998. Olympics and postseason. It probably should have been done before that, but I think he had the best season of his life in 1998 and no one thought he should have won a Cup with Buffalo. Their top scorer was Miro Satan with 46 points. They did not have a 25 goal scorer on the entire team. 1999 Satan has 66 points and Peca 56. But it is still barely better. Both years they were 17th in goals as a team, which surprises me they were actually that good. With a normal goalie they aren't a playoff team. Hasek took them deep. No one would have even blamed him if he lost in the 1st round in 1999.
 
Curious why the narrative that Lundqvist can't win the big one persisted despite the 2006 Olympic win, if because of 1998 Hasek was able to counteract the lack of cup. Or is this just rival team's narrative?
 
VanIslander said:
In the '92 Stanley Cup Finals, after Belfour was pulled early in the 1st period when giving up goals to Jagr and Stevens, Hasek stopped multiple Stevens and Lemieux shots - including the iconic one against Mario in the Mastercard commercial - plus against Jagr, Francis, Trottier and others, in a valiant effort that had Scotty Bowman shaking his head
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This gets overblown a bit. Hasek actually let in 4 goals in 25 shots (including one to Lemieux) for an .840 that night.
VanIslander said:
Two years later in 1994, an epic 70 saves against cup-champs Devils
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Epic, yes. (But the Devils weren't cup-champs that season.)
VanIslander said:
He is the best goaltender of all time.
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Who knows? I rate him co-best with Jacques Plante.
MadLuke said:
I would even go as far that winning with that 2002 squad did not do that much for him....
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Yes, it seems like Hasek-detractors almost use his 2002 Cup win against him.
 
MadLuke said:
I was going to say, maybe that something you encounter because you have NYR in your name, I do not remember that narrative being out there.
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Probably not on the History of Hockey board, lol.

To be fair I was pretty hard on Hank in the playoffs during his career. He was significantly more up and down in the playoffs than regular season. The numbers probably don't show it because he had amazing games but also terrible ones. So it evened out.
 
SnowblindNYR said:
Curious why the narrative that Lundqvist can't win the big one persisted despite the 2006 Olympic win, if because of 1998 Hasek was able to counteract the lack of cup. Or is this just rival team's narrative?
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yeah, not something i ever heard either

if anything, it felt like throughout his career lundqvist got a pass on not having a cup, not unlike cujo before 2003. whereas beezer, belfour before he won one, nabokov, luongo obviously, rinne, they all got saddled with the can’t win the big one tag.
 
vadim sharifijanov said:
yeah, not something i ever heard either

if anything, it felt like throughout his career lundqvist got a pass on not having a cup, not unlike cujo before 2003. whereas beezer, belfour before he won one, nabokov, luongo obviously, rinne, they all got saddled with the can’t win the big one tag.
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Why Rinne? Rinne's Nashville teams weren't any better than Lundqvist's Rangers teams and Rinne wasn't better than Lundqvist.
 
Maybe it’s because I was younger and we didn’t have the iPhones in our pockets, but I seem to remember a lot more empathy for the all-timers who were Cupless until the end or close to the end like Hasek. I don’t remember anyone thinking he was lesser for not winning in Buffalo, or viewing him as “weak” for joining a stacked organization like Detroit.

Same thing applied for Bourque just a couple years prior. I remember only sadness that an all-time defenseman was seemingly never going to win. I remember only blessings for his departure from the Bruins. I’m originally a New Englander and I can confirm that Bruins fans became Avalanche fans for those two postseasons (helpful that the Bruins happened to miss both years as well).
 
I could just not listen enough, but Cujo-Luongo could be the only 2 i heard off.

Price, Lundqvist, hasek pre-cup, Kiprusoff, it need to come from some moment in the final like Luongo had at least for that narrative to make sense.

Video Nasty said:
a lot more empathy for the all-timers who were Cupless
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Could be something that was brought by American coverage of NBA, NFL type sport... Even for Bourque level of all-time great that had teams good enough to reach the finals, the talk was all about sad he did not win it and happy when he did...

The joined a super team to do so.... a looser for not winning... was not there at all. Now McDavid can literally score 40 pts in a playoff run and have talk like that around...
 
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MadLuke said:
I could just not listen enough, but Cujo-Luongo could be the only 2 i heard off.

Price, Lundqvist, hasek pre-cup, Kiprusoff, it need to come from some moment in the final like Luongo had at least for that narrative to make sense.


Could be something that was brought by American coverage of NBA, NFL type sport... Even for Bourque level of all-time great that had team good enough to reach the finals, the talk was all about sad he did not win it and happy when he did...

The joined a super team to do so.... a looser for not winning... was not there at all. Now McDavid can literally score 40 pts in a playoff run and have talk like that around...
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I think you’re right. The talking heads “GOAT and let’s only discuss ring count” talk didn’t really seem to ramp up until after LeBron entered the NBA.
 
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