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What was the most talented WJCH team ever?

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alko

alko

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Oct 20, 2004
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Canada in 2004/2005?

Here im a little bit on the crossroad. Should we take in note their future career? Or should we focus to their actual performance, when the players were in their teams?
Click to read more...
 
The 2005 team was so good that they had a stiff of a goalie, but he never faced many shots or scoring chances.

The puck possession of that group was insane.

The talent level off the charts due to the NHL lockout also coinciding with almost all of the 2003 draft players being at 19 years old, and having a generational superstar in Sidney Crosby.

Those 3 things all coming together at once was a once in a lifetime event.

Sure the 1995 team was good but Daigle doesn't compare to crosby... and the 1993 draft doesn't compare to 2003. In other words it wasn't just the lockout that did it. it was three events all coinciding.... a lockout... one of the best draft classes ever... and a generational superstar... all being put into one team.
 
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Canada 2005, but that almost doesn't get to count because there were so many players that otherwise would have been in the NHL. I mean just off the top of my head, guys that would have been in the NHL instead if not for the lockout:

Phaneuf, Seabrook, Weber, Coburn, Carter, Getzlaf, Richards, Perry, Bergeron (hell he already WAS an NHLer).

Off chance a couple of those guys are released for the tournament but certainly not all of them. That's basically Canada's top 4 on defense and 2 lines worth of top forwards (minus Crosby) right there alone.

Werid to say but Canada 04 may have been the best "normal" WJC roster, and they didn't even win gold somehow.
 
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alko said:
Canada in 2004/2005?

Here im a little bit on the crossroad. Should we take in note their future career? Or should we focus to their actual performance, when the players were in their teams?
Click to expand...

Both methods yield the same answer. It's Canada 2005.

DaveG said:
Canada 2005, but that almost doesn't get to count because there were so many players that otherwise would have been in the NHL. I mean just off the top of my head, guys that would have been in the NHL instead if not for the lockout:

Phaneuf, Seabrook, Weber, Coburn, Carter, Getzlaf, Richards, Perry, Bergeron (hell he already WAS an NHLer).

Off chance a couple of those guys are released for the tournament but certainly not all of them. That's basically Canada's top 4 on defense and 2 lines worth of top forwards (minus Crosby) right there alone.

Werid to say but Canada 04 may have been the best "normal" WJC roster, and they didn't even win gold somehow.
Click to expand...

Often forgotten is that the 2005 team still didn't have all NHL players. Burns and Horton weren't released. I've also thought about which players would have been in the NHL had there been an NHL season that year. I don't think that the nine listed players all would have been in the NHL. At the very least Weber and Coburn seem unlikely (they spent the season after the lockout in the AHL) and I'm skeptical about Perry given the issues people had with his game at the time (he was the last forward to make the Canadian team). I am confident that Canada at least received Bergeron, Carter and Phaneuf due to the lockout. As those three were probably Canada's best players so that is already huge before the other possibilities are considered.
 
Peter Zezel said:
That was the team with Fedorov, Mogilny, Fetisov, Marakov and Bure in case anyone was wondering.
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Not Fetisov or Makarov. You're off by a decade on that. They did have Bure, Fedorov, Mogilny, Khristich, Zubov, Yushkevich, and a few other solid NHL guys on that team. This certainly a top five team of all time. Perhaps to liven up this thread we should just rank the top five WJC teams?
 
JackSlater said:
Both methods yield the same answer. It's Canada 2005.



Often forgotten is that the 2005 team still didn't have all NHL players. Burns and Horton weren't released. I've also thought about which players would have been in the NHL had there been an NHL season that year. I don't think that the nine listed players all would have been in the NHL. At the very least Weber and Coburn seem unlikely (they spent the season after the lockout in the AHL) and I'm skeptical about Perry given the issues people had with his game at the time (he was the last forward to make the Canadian team). I am confident that Canada at least received Bergeron, Carter and Phaneuf due to the lockout. As those three were probably Canada's best players so that is already huge before the other possibilities are considered.
Click to expand...
There also would have been no Ovechkin for Russia if it wasn't for the lockout.
 
If we want to play the "what if card" we can throw in Sweden 2010.

D:
Erik Karlsson
Viktor Hedman
Oliver Ekman-Larsson
Mattias Ekholm
Adam Larsson

That must be one of the most talented D groups ever.

Best team overall from Sweden must be 1993 though.
 
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Casanova said:
If we want to play the "what if card" we can throw in Sweden 2010.

D:
Erik Karlsson
Viktor Hedman
Oliver Ekman-Larsson
Mattias Ekholm
Adam Larsson

That must be one of the most talented D groups ever.

Best team overall from Sweden must be 1993 though.
Click to expand...

Canada from 2010 adds Stamkos, Tavares, O'Reilly, Duchene, Kane, Myers, Del Zotto. Sweden doesn't benefit very much historically from "what if".
 
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JackSlater said:
Canada from 2010 adds Stamkos, Tavares, O'Reilly, Duchene, Kane, Myers, Del Zotto. Sweden doesn't benefit very much historically from "what if".
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You didnt get that I was pretty much only celebrating that class of Defensemen sweden could have had that year?

And outside of Stamkos and Tavares, which is comparable to Karlsson and Hedman imo, the rest of those guys are pretty meh.

And since you cant read between the lines Im on board with Canada in 2005 as the best/most talented ever.

Edit: Oreilly might deserve to be called a little more than meh, hes pretty good.
 
Casanova said:
You didnt get that I was pretty much only celebrating that class of Defensemen sweden could have had that year?

And outside of Stamkos and Tavares, which is comparable to Karlsson and Hedman imo, the rest of those guys are pretty meh.

And since you cant read between the lines Im on board with Canada in 2005 as the best/most talented ever.

Edit: Oreilly might deserve to be called a little more than meh, hes pretty good.
Click to expand...

You added the only two missing Swedish players, just because they happen to be defencemen that doesn't imply that you are only referring to defencemen. I also had a good laugh at your dismissal of 55 point NHLer Duchene, Calder winning Myers, recent fourth overall pick Kane and great two way forward O'Reilly. Almost as funny as declaring Stamkos and Tavares, with Stamkos leading the NHL in goal scoring and fifth in total scoring, comparable to Karlsson and Hedman circa 2010.
 
Casanova said:
You didnt get that I was pretty much only celebrating that class of Defensemen sweden could have had that year?

And outside of Stamkos and Tavares, which is comparable to Karlsson and Hedman imo, the rest of those guys are pretty meh.

And since you cant read between the lines Im on board with Canada in 2005 as the best/most talented ever.

Edit: Oreilly might deserve to be called a little more than meh, hes pretty good.
Click to expand...
I mean I think you need to also not use as much hindsight and look at what these players were as junior players. A 19 year old Tavares in that tournament with Stamkos either on his wing or on the 2nd line is absolutely madness and then you add in that Brayden Schenn would of ended up being like the 4th line centre...And that Taylor Hall guy was a hell of a player in junior.
 
JackSlater said:
You added the only two missing Swedish players, just because they happen to be defencemen that doesn't imply that you are only referring to defencemen. I also had a good laugh at your dismissal of 55 point NHLer Duchene, Calder winning Myers, recent fourth overall pick Kane and great two way forward O'Reilly. Almost as funny as declaring Stamkos and Tavares, with Stamkos leading the NHL in goal scoring and fifth in total scoring, comparable to Karlsson and Hedman circa 2010.
Click to expand...

Did you read the OPs question? "What was the most talented WJCH team ever"

(First bolded) And no, but when we talk about top 5 teams, and F-ing honorable mentions like Finland in 2016, and a hypothetical Finland in 2017 - THEN ITS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT YOU GET TO MENTION A TEAM, I MEAN I SAID ONE OTHER SWEDISH TEAM WAS BETTER.

Are all Canadians this slow? I mean, its like saying "USA/Canada/DENMARK/GERMANY/WHEREEVER-ISTAN is the best place to live in the whole world" and someone else says "Sweden is pretty good too if you like skiing, Zlatan and blonde women". ONE THING DOESNT MAKE THE OTHER TRUE/UNTRUE.
 
Casanova said:
Did you read the OPs question? "What was the most talented WJCH team ever"
Click to expand...

I read it the OP, and how it talks about how good the players ended up and how good they were at the time. I also read your post where you dismissed players who would have been absolutely elite at the WJC level and developed into all star players, so either you didn't read the criteria of the thread or you are rampantly disingenuous.

Casanova said:
(First bolded) And no, but when we talk about top 5 teams, and F-ing honorable mentions like Finland in 2016, and a hypothetical Finland in 2017 - THEN ITS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT YOU GET TO MENTION A TEAM, I MEAN I SAID ONE OTHER SWEDISH TEAM WAS BETTER.

Are all Canadians this slow? I mean, its like saying "USA/Canada/DENMARK/GERMANY/WHEREEVER-ISTAN is the best place to live in the whole world" and someone else says "Sweden is pretty good too if you like skiing, Zlatan and blonde women". ONE THING DOESNT MAKE THE OTHER TRUE/UNTRUE.
Click to expand...

As convincing as your random capitalization is, your point is irrelevant. I don't see where anyone said that you don't "get to mention a team". I just pointed out that in the specific year you picked Sweden didn't even have the biggest loss of players or the most talented team. If that upsets you so much then by all means continue capitalizing your letters to convey just what a tragedy it is for you to hear this. Additionally, just like Finland 2018, Sweden 2010 isn't worthy of consideration for even a top five spot position or an honourable mention in the history of the tournament. You can mention it all you like, but that won't make it a particularly justifiable mention.
 
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