What the Russian team stronger? OG10 or World Cup16?

[Bear12Good]

What the Russian team stronger? OG10 or World Cup16?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLhC2eTkVCM&feature=youtu.be
Russia roster 2010
Nabokov,Bryzgalov,Varlamov

Ovechkin-Malkin-Semin
Kovalchuk-Datzuk-Afinogenov
Zaripov-Zinoviev-Morozov
Kozlov-Fedorov-Radulov

Gonchar-Nikulin
Volchenkov-Markov
Kalinin-Tyutin
Korneev

or
Bobrovsky,Varlamov,Vasilevsky

Ovechkin-Kuznetzov-Tarasenko
Mozyakin-Malkin-Kucherov
Radulov-Anisimov-Panarin
Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Shipachev
Namestnikov

Markov-Emelin
Medvedev-Kulikov
Zaytzev-Orlov
?
https://youtu.be/Rfq3lt4KFGA

Click to read more...

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

For your sakes it better be 2016

 

[Proust*]

Neither

 

[Bear12Good]

Neither

Both teams are vey weak?
Well, Russia is weaker than the Soviet Union

 

[JackSlater]

Pretty even. Russia 2016 has more depth (2010 has a bad fourth line and bottom three defencemen) but Russia 2010 has better top end talent (Malkin/Ovechkin/Datsyuk all near peak, Kovalchuk still good). The Markov of 2010, though not the healthiest at the time, is better than any current Russian defenceman. Russia 2016 has better goaltending though. I'd lean toward Russia 2016.

 

[Bear12Good]

Pretty even. Russia 2016 has more depth (2010 has a bad fourth line and bottom three defencemen) but Russia 2010 has better top end talent (Malkin/Ovechkin/Datsyuk all near peak, Kovalchuk still good). The Markov of 2010, though not the healthiest at the time, is better than any current Russian defenceman. Russia 2016 has better goaltending though. I'd lean toward Russia 2016.

Russia now more choice of players in the line of attack
There are young talents who will go through a couple of years to conquer the NHL (Gusev, Buchnevich, Golyshev, Apalkov, Burdasov, Prokhorkin)

 

[tony d]

The 2010 team.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The 2010 team.

So then the 2016 team won't medal

 

[Bear12Good]

So then the 2016 team won't medal

Most likely it will.
In Russia, no one believes in the success of our team

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Most likely it will.
In Russia, no one believes in the success of our team

There is a reason for that, your team hasn't medaled in anything that matters at the pro level since 2002

 

[Bear12Good]

There is a reason for that, your team hasn't medaled in anything that matters at the pro level since 2002

And because Russia is not in his power to these tournaments!
The level of the players allows you to play more successfully.
I think no one would deny that the level of Russian players stronger than Finland!

 

[xxxx]

Pretty even. Russia 2016 has more depth (2010 has a bad fourth line and bottom three defencemen) but Russia 2010 has better top end talent (Malkin/Ovechkin/Datsyuk all near peak, Kovalchuk still good). The Markov of 2010, though not the healthiest at the time, is better than any current Russian defenceman. Russia 2016 has better goaltending though. I'd lean toward Russia 2016.

And Semin.


For me, the 2010 forward group is very solid. It's basically Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, Radulov, Datsyuk, Fedorov, Kozlov, Afinogenov in 2010 VS Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Tarasenko, Radulov, Datsyuk, Panarin, Kuznetsov, Kucherov in 2016 - the remaining 3 or 4 guys won't weigh into it much.

In my opinion:

Ovechkin 2010 = Ovechkin 2016
Malkin 2010 >= Malkin 2016
Datsyuk 2010 > Datsyuk 2016 (though not by that much)
Kovalchuk 2010 >> Kovalchuk 2016
Radulov 2010 = Radulov 2016 (probably?)
Semin 2010 =< Tarasenko 2016 (Semin was on fire in Washington)
Fedorov 2010 < Kuznetsov 2016 (even though Fedorov provided experience and wasn't bad)
Afinogenov 2010 < Kucherov 2016
Kozlov 2010 < Panarin 2016


I think the 2016 group of forwards (Kuznetsov, Panarin and Kucherov + maybe Anisimov are a big reason) is better. But on the other hand the defence was absolutely better in 2010. Then, I personally don't think goaltening was worse in 2010.

So to sum up, it's even overall. I personally lean towards the 2016 team though. I think it's time for Russia to show what they are offensively capable of, finally.

 

[JackSlater]

And Semin.


For me, the 2010 forward group is very solid. It's basically Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, Radulov, Datsyuk, Fedorov, Kozlov, Afinogenov in 2010 VS Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Tarasenko, Radulov, Datsyuk, Panarin, Kuznetsov, Kucherov in 2016 - the remaining 3 or 4 guys won't weigh into it much.

In my opinion:

Ovechkin 2010 = Ovechkin 2016
Malkin 2010 >= Malkin 2016
Datsyuk 2010 > Datsyuk 2016 (though not by that much)
Kovalchuk 2010 >> Kovalchuk 2016
Radulov 2010 = Radulov 2016 (probably?)
Semin 2010 =< Tarasenko 2016 (Semin was on fire in Washington)
Fedorov 2010 < Kuznetsov 2016 (even though Fedorov provided experience and wasn't bad)
Afinogenov 2010 < Kucherov 2016
Kozlov 2010 < Panarin 2016

I disagree with a lot of those. Ovechkin was the best player in the world in 2010 and would have run away with the Art Ross and Hart trophies if he hadn't been suspended for 10 games. Malkin was comfortably better in 2010. Datsyuk was arguably a top five forward in 2010. Tarasenko is far better than Semin ever was. Kuznetsov is a lot better now than 40 year old Fedorov, though their roles are clearly different.

 

[Bear12Good]

And Semin.


For me, the 2010 forward group is very solid. It's basically Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Semin, Radulov, Datsyuk, Fedorov, Kozlov, Afinogenov in 2010 VS Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Tarasenko, Radulov, Datsyuk, Panarin, Kuznetsov, Kucherov in 2016 - the remaining 3 or 4 guys won't weigh into it much.

In my opinion:

Ovechkin 2010 = Ovechkin 2016
Malkin 2010 >= Malkin 2016
Datsyuk 2010 > Datsyuk 2016 (though not by that much)
Kovalchuk 2010 >> Kovalchuk 2016
Radulov 2010 = Radulov 2016 (probably?)
Semin 2010 =< Tarasenko 2016 (Semin was on fire in Washington)
Fedorov 2010 < Kuznetsov 2016 (even though Fedorov provided experience and wasn't bad)
Afinogenov 2010 < Kucherov 2016
Kozlov 2010 < Panarin 2016


I think the 2016 group of forwards (Kuznetsov, Panarin and Kucherov + maybe Anisimov are a big reason) is better. But on the other hand the defence was absolutely better in 2010. Then, I personally don't think goaltening was worse in 2010.

So to sum up, it's even overall. I personally lean towards the 2016 team though. I think it's time for Russia to show what they are offensively capable of, finally.

Radulov = Jamie Benn)

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

And because Russia is not in his power to these tournaments!
The level of the players allows you to play more successfully.
I think no one would deny that the level of Russian players stronger than Finland!

I guess we will find out if they medal and you don't

To me the top 5 in the world right are

Canada
Sweden
USA
Finland
Czech Republic

Russia is #6 at least and that's because like I said you haven't medaled in a damn thing thT matters at the pro level since 2002 that's 14 years

 

[Bear12Good]

I guess we will find out if they medal and you don't

To me the top 5 in the world right are

Canada
Sweden
USA
Finland
Czech Republic

Russia is #6 at least and that's because like I said you haven't medaled in a damn thing thT matters at the pro level since 2002 that's 14 years

Totally agree with you
In Russia, stopped appearing players can win Finland or the Czech Republic
Russia=Slovakia

 

[Yakushev72]

I guess we will find out if they medal and you don't

To me the top 5 in the world right are

Canada
Sweden
USA
Finland
Czech Republic

Russia is #6 at least and that's because like I said you haven't medaled in a damn thing thT matters at the pro level since 2002 that's 14 years

When you talk about " a damn thing thT matters," I assume that you are talking about the Olympic Games as the only tournament that matters, mainly because you are crowing about Canada winning in 2010 and 2014? Here is a statistic that is both unbelievable and amazing - of the 5 Olympic Games since the NHL as a whole start playing, Canada has won 3 of the 5 Olympic tournaments. Amazing and unbelievable because, with the overwhelming numerical advantage that Canada has over Russia, Finland and Sweden in number of players and indoor rinks, how is it even possible that Canada could not only lose, but actually fail to medal at all, fully 40% of the time?

The answer is that, per capita, it has been known for several decades that Canadian players aren't as skilled as their European counterparts. They don't skate, stickhandle and pass as well as Russians, Finns and Swedes, man for man. When you have nearly a million active players at any given time, you are going to have the occasional freak anomaly like Mario Lemieux, who had enormous natural talent. When you consider that Canada has an 8-1 advantage over Russia in number of players, and 6-1 in number of rinks, and yet, in head-to-head competition in the Olympic Games since 1998, the two nations are tied 1-1, with Canada having a slight edge in total goals, 7-5, you should ease back a little on the trash talk.

Canada hasn't distinguished itself in the past 9 years in the WC or the WJC, which is almost unbelievable when you consider that they should be able to forego 5 or 6 of their top players and still totally massacre the competition every single year without exception. There is never a valid excuse, given the huge advantages, for Canada ever losing a game, and for not absolutely obliterating the competition in every tournament. The fact that you guys don't come close is testament to the fact that Canada sacrifices quality for volume, and that below the very top, you are just as mediocre as everyone else.

 

[JackSlater]

how is it even possible that Canada could not only lose, but actually fail to medal at all, fully 40% of the time?

I agree, Canada could have and should have done better.

The answer is that, per capita, it has been known for several decades that Canadian players aren't as skilled as their European counterparts. They don't skate, stickhandle and pass as well as Russians, Finns and Swedes, man for man.

Source? I'm particularly impressed that you went beyond Russia and even included the Finns, who haven't produced a truly elite skater since Teemu Selanne.

When you consider that Canada has an 8-1 advantage over Russia in number of players, and 6-1 in number of rinks, and yet, in head-to-head competition in the Olympic Games since 1998, the two nations are tied 1-1, with Canada having a slight edge in total goals, 7-5, you should ease back a little on the trash talk.

True, and Canada's record against Switzerland in that same context is even worse. The skill rating is probably:

Switzerland
Russia
Canada

Canada hasn't distinguished itself in the past 9 years in the WC or the WJC, which is almost unbelievable when you consider that they should be able to forego 5 or 6 of their top players and still totally massacre the competition every single year without exception. There is never a valid excuse, given the huge advantages, for Canada ever losing a game, and for not absolutely obliterating the competition in every tournament. The fact that you guys don't come close is testament to the fact that Canada sacrifices quality for volume, and that below the very top, you are just as mediocre as everyone else.

I agree that Canada should probably win every tournament, given that Canada produces more elite hockey players than any other nation does.

Oh and by the way... which Russian team is better?

 

[Macman]

The answer is that, per capita, it has been known for several decades that Canadian players aren't as skilled as their European counterparts. They don't skate, stickhandle and pass as well as Russians, Finns and Swedes, man for man.

I'm not sure which men you're looking at but that's a stereotype that ended a long time ago, especially when it comes to skating. Russian teams have been unable to keep pace with Canadian teams at the elite level for a while now. As for skill, the top Russian defenders are mostly a joke compared to their Canadian counterparts.

 

[93LEAFS]

When you talk about " a damn thing thT matters," I assume that you are talking about the Olympic Games as the only tournament that matters, mainly because you are crowing about Canada winning in 2010 and 2014? Here is a statistic that is both unbelievable and amazing - of the 5 Olympic Games since the NHL as a whole start playing, Canada has won 3 of the 5 Olympic tournaments. Amazing and unbelievable because, with the overwhelming numerical advantage that Canada has over Russia, Finland and Sweden in number of players and indoor rinks, how is it even possible that Canada could not only lose, but actually fail to medal at all, fully 40% of the time?

The answer is that, per capita, it has been known for several decades that Canadian players aren't as skilled as their European counterparts. They don't skate, stickhandle and pass as well as Russians, Finns and Swedes, man for man. When you have nearly a million active players at any given time, you are going to have the occasional freak anomaly like Mario Lemieux, who had enormous natural talent. When you consider that Canada has an 8-1 advantage over Russia in number of players, and 6-1 in number of rinks, and yet, in head-to-head competition in the Olympic Games since 1998, the two nations are tied 1-1, with Canada having a slight edge in total goals, 7-5, you should ease back a little on the trash talk.

Canada hasn't distinguished itself in the past 9 years in the WC or the WJC, which is almost unbelievable when you consider that they should be able to forego 5 or 6 of their top players and still totally massacre the competition every single year without exception. There is never a valid excuse, given the huge advantages, for Canada ever losing a game, and for not absolutely obliterating the competition in every tournament. The fact that you guys don't come close is testament to the fact that Canada sacrifices quality for volume, and that below the very top, you are just as mediocre as everyone else.

That logic is insane when applied to a single elimination tournament, look at how Greece and Denmark have won the Euro Cup or how weaker clubs can win their national FA cups. You might have a valid point if these were 7 game series, but in single elimination a bad night vs a hot goalie can beat any team. And your comment about speed and skill is insane, guys like Seguin, Hall, McDavid, Mackinnon are probably as skilled and better skaters than any Euro's out of the last 5 drafts such as Tarasenko and Kuznetsov. And lets not get into the fact Russia hasn't produced a #1 defencemen who didn't grow up in the Soviet era.

 

[Backami]

I guess we will find out if they medal and you don't

To me the top 5 in the world right are

Canada
Sweden
USA
Finland
Czech Republic

Russia is #6 at least and that's because like I said you haven't medaled in a damn thing thT matters at the pro level since 2002 that's 14 years

Russia is way better on paper than Finland or Czech R. Thats not even a topic.

 

[Canuckistani]

Canada hasn't distinguished itself in the past 9 years in the WC or the WJC, which is almost unbelievable when you consider that they should be able to forego 5 or 6 of their top players and still totally massacre the competition every single year without exception. There is never a valid excuse, given the huge advantages, for Canada ever losing a game, and for not absolutely obliterating the competition in every tournament. The fact that you guys don't come close is testament to the fact that Canada sacrifices quality for volume, and that below the very top, you are just as mediocre as everyone else.

In any given event you can only field 23-25 players, so the wider depth of a nation's talent doesn't come into play. All any nation needs to be comparative internationally is a couple teams worth of good players, if that.

If what you say is true then Uruguay's national soccer team should be massacred 6-0 by the likes of Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Spain and Germany every single game given how many players each side has to draw from. But, lo and behold, Uruguay can hold their own and win more often than not.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

When you talk about " a damn thing thT matters," I assume that you are talking about the Olympic Games as the only tournament that matters, mainly because you are crowing about Canada winning in 2010 and 2014? Here is a statistic that is both unbelievable and amazing - of the 5 Olympic Games since the NHL as a whole start playing, Canada has won 3 of the 5 Olympic tournaments. Amazing and unbelievable because, with the overwhelming numerical advantage that Canada has over Russia, Finland and Sweden in number of players and indoor rinks, how is it even possible that Canada could not only lose, but actually fail to medal at all, fully 40% of the time?

The answer is that, per capita, it has been known for several decades that Canadian players aren't as skilled as their European counterparts. They don't skate, stickhandle and pass as well as Russians, Finns and Swedes, man for man. When you have nearly a million active players at any given time, you are going to have the occasional freak anomaly like Mario Lemieux, who had enormous natural talent. When you consider that Canada has an 8-1 advantage over Russia in number of players, and 6-1 in number of rinks, and yet, in head-to-head competition in the Olympic Games since 1998, the two nations are tied 1-1, with Canada having a slight edge in total goals, 7-5, you should ease back a little on the trash talk.

Canada hasn't distinguished itself in the past 9 years in the WC or the WJC, which is almost unbelievable when you consider that they should be able to forego 5 or 6 of their top players and still totally massacre the competition every single year without exception. There is never a valid excuse, given the huge advantages, for Canada ever losing a game, and for not absolutely obliterating the competition in every tournament. The fact that you guys don't come close is testament to the fact that Canada sacrifices quality for volume, and that below the very top, you are just as mediocre as everyone else.

To me the WC are not relevant because they take place during the playoffs therefore it can't be a true best on best hence it doesn't matter