Player Discussion What should the Canucks do with Miller and Pettersson?
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Ernie
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- Aug 3, 2004
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Justification for my votes:
The team still has even odds of making the postseason but the situation is untenable. It'll be hard to get full value for Pettersson now so the best option is to trade Miller. Pettersson is also still the better bet in the long term. However, if Pettersson's play doesn't improve after Miller is traded, then the team cannot afford to keep his contract for the long term.
The team still has even odds of making the postseason but the situation is untenable. It'll be hard to get full value for Pettersson now so the best option is to trade Miller. Pettersson is also still the better bet in the long term. However, if Pettersson's play doesn't improve after Miller is traded, then the team cannot afford to keep his contract for the long term.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Glennis the Menace
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- Mar 15, 2009
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Don't trade them for nothing. Benning would've already let Miller go with retention and a 7th round pick for Chytil, Lindgren, and whatever other scraps Drury would've given us. If we're patient, more will come knocking, especially as the playoffs approach: teams always think they can fix players. But honestly, if it's this bad that our GM and President are coming out with a mea culpa for the organization, it's important we see their potential production on the team as a sunk cost: it's gone, we never had it and we won't realize it. In that case, we can only see adding by subtracting. Look at the post-Wheeler Jets, or even the Rangers this year.
None of us know what's really going on inside of that dressing room. None of us have any clue. From a cold, hard rational point of view of a fan, the organization just needs to maximize the value in a return, and move the player(s) most at fault for the toxic dressing room. So long as the toxicity in the dressing room remains, we're not going to attract UFAs, and we're going to repel our own players from wanting to resign. If that means one or both players, so be it. They know what's really gone on, who did what, and how much at fault they are for whatever it is they did; we don't. I assume unless they're truly incompetent—and we'll find that out, one way or another with this saga—they're going to make the move(s) that address(es) the locker room long term.
None of us know what's really going on inside of that dressing room. None of us have any clue. From a cold, hard rational point of view of a fan, the organization just needs to maximize the value in a return, and move the player(s) most at fault for the toxic dressing room. So long as the toxicity in the dressing room remains, we're not going to attract UFAs, and we're going to repel our own players from wanting to resign. If that means one or both players, so be it. They know what's really gone on, who did what, and how much at fault they are for whatever it is they did; we don't. I assume unless they're truly incompetent—and we'll find that out, one way or another with this saga—they're going to make the move(s) that address(es) the locker room long term.
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Bobby9
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- Feb 10, 2019
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Trade them both unfortunately. Seems it’s both sides who are unable to put the team ahead of their egos.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Bobby9
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- Feb 10, 2019
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trade miller as soon as possible, get whatever you can.
ride out the rest of the season and use that time to assess. hopefully pettersson emerges as an actual franchise cornerstone. hopefully that means the canucks can still make the playoffs.
figure out by the draft what the overall strategic direction is - if it's re-tool around hughes, re-tool around hughes and petey, further acceleration of the current path (ie. adding a defenseman) with most of the core intact or a full-blown rebuild (hughes out)
i don't buy that the market for miller really changes once the season ends - he's either wanted by teams or he's not, and i don't think the canucks leverage profile changes meaningfully. maybe teams are wary to move guys like morgan rielly or chris krieder or brent burns that have fallen off in play but are core pieces to those teams, and that would change following a failed playoff run. but i don't think the canucks can afford to wait around to try to maximize that value. i certainly don't think the prospect return profile meaningfully changes between now and then. even if the canucks make the playoffs and jt has a strong series in a first round exit... unless rutherford does another interview declaring the rift officially over, you still run the risk of this happening again next season if things fall off in any way, so i don't think a counterparty pays a higher price because of that playoff run. if anything, it's a playoff run they lose out on.
for pettersson, it feels like the wrong move to sell now when his value is at it's lowest - i'd take the risk of seeing if he can bounce back post-miller at the chance that he doesn't (or plays worse), and the return falls even lower by the draft. at that point, the core is not worth building upon anyways, so it helps inform the strategic direction at the very least.
ride out the rest of the season and use that time to assess. hopefully pettersson emerges as an actual franchise cornerstone. hopefully that means the canucks can still make the playoffs.
figure out by the draft what the overall strategic direction is - if it's re-tool around hughes, re-tool around hughes and petey, further acceleration of the current path (ie. adding a defenseman) with most of the core intact or a full-blown rebuild (hughes out)
i don't buy that the market for miller really changes once the season ends - he's either wanted by teams or he's not, and i don't think the canucks leverage profile changes meaningfully. maybe teams are wary to move guys like morgan rielly or chris krieder or brent burns that have fallen off in play but are core pieces to those teams, and that would change following a failed playoff run. but i don't think the canucks can afford to wait around to try to maximize that value. i certainly don't think the prospect return profile meaningfully changes between now and then. even if the canucks make the playoffs and jt has a strong series in a first round exit... unless rutherford does another interview declaring the rift officially over, you still run the risk of this happening again next season if things fall off in any way, so i don't think a counterparty pays a higher price because of that playoff run. if anything, it's a playoff run they lose out on.
for pettersson, it feels like the wrong move to sell now when his value is at it's lowest - i'd take the risk of seeing if he can bounce back post-miller at the chance that he doesn't (or plays worse), and the return falls even lower by the draft. at that point, the core is not worth building upon anyways, so it helps inform the strategic direction at the very least.
i've probably been more annoyed with pettersson than miller, but the choice is pretty obvious here. we are doomed anyway if petey doesn't rebound to a 1C.
also i guess i'm still on team "trade neither" because i still think it's ridiculous that two grown men are causing this issue, and they will realize that.
also i guess i'm still on team "trade neither" because i still think it's ridiculous that two grown men are causing this issue, and they will realize that.
Nona Di Giuseppe
Registered User
Need more options.
Hold onto Miller until the best offer arises is my vote. No deadline. Keep Pettersson (unless overpayment arises that solves d and center issues0
Hold onto Miller until the best offer arises is my vote. No deadline. Keep Pettersson (unless overpayment arises that solves d and center issues0
Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
Needs a trade them both option. Had enough of all of this childish drama and Petterson has been putrid since he signed his contract.
Ernie
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I think Petterson will rebound & should be kept. I'll repost why I believe this:
He gives a damn. But it's mental, whatever this rift is between him and Miller, is screwing his mental.
You saw improvement right away as soon as Miller was out for a few games.
Saw this mental thing last year, just didn't know where it was coming from.
But it almost looked like he was an outcast when the team celebrated goals last year.
You can see it in the downcast eyes.
And now you can see the downcast eyes on Miller as well.
The whole locker has gone toxic & it's affecting the whole crew.
You gotta get rid of whoever is causing it.
I've seen the power of outcasting & what it can do to even the most capable/rational/brilliant men.
Doesn't matter how strong your mind is, you're only human.
When this happens, the only fix is either a change of scenery, or removal of the cause.
Petterson will be fine, if you get rid of Miller.
Or Patterson will be fine; on another team.
Either way, 1 has to go.
He gives a damn. But it's mental, whatever this rift is between him and Miller, is screwing his mental.
You saw improvement right away as soon as Miller was out for a few games.
Saw this mental thing last year, just didn't know where it was coming from.
But it almost looked like he was an outcast when the team celebrated goals last year.
You can see it in the downcast eyes.
And now you can see the downcast eyes on Miller as well.
The whole locker has gone toxic & it's affecting the whole crew.
You gotta get rid of whoever is causing it.
I've seen the power of outcasting & what it can do to even the most capable/rational/brilliant men.
Doesn't matter how strong your mind is, you're only human.
When this happens, the only fix is either a change of scenery, or removal of the cause.
Petterson will be fine, if you get rid of Miller.
Or Patterson will be fine; on another team.
Either way, 1 has to go.
TomWillander1RD
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- Jul 21, 2004
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kvladimir
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I said it in previous threads, but I will repeat: trade Miller as soon as a remotely acceptable deal emerges, but definitely by the TDL, seems like it would be especially destructive if he stays the rest of the season, and that has implications beyond just what he would return in a trade.
Keep EP the rest of the season, assess his performance and long-term viability without Miller, and if it's deemed too risky to keep him, leverage the window you get between SCF wrapping up and July 1st so you have the option of moving him outside a NMC. Just 1 example of a team that could be in on him specifically after the season is done: Minnesota, who will have tons of cap room on July 1st, and can exceed the cap to add EP just before that.
Keep EP the rest of the season, assess his performance and long-term viability without Miller, and if it's deemed too risky to keep him, leverage the window you get between SCF wrapping up and July 1st so you have the option of moving him outside a NMC. Just 1 example of a team that could be in on him specifically after the season is done: Minnesota, who will have tons of cap room on July 1st, and can exceed the cap to add EP just before that.
Quinning
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Ernie
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You can select multiple options. Ie trade Miller now and Pettersson in the offseason.
My opinion is that they need to move Miller. Sooner rather than later. They need to move that guy now before things get even worse than they already are. At his age, with his attitude and personality, and with that contract, they should be looking to move him out fast.
But in typical Canuck fashion they will most likely overplay their hand and be left holding the bag after deadline day comes and passes.
But in typical Canuck fashion they will most likely overplay their hand and be left holding the bag after deadline day comes and passes.
My aggressive and totally unrealistic plan would be to trade Miller now (unless you get absolutely raked over the coals on trade value) and fire Tochett, and then see how Pettersson and the team plays out the year. If Pettersson doesn't show any signs of improving, and assuming management doesn't know/think he's playing through a curable injury, then I'd trade Pettersson before July 1st (and his trade protection kick in) and do a total rebuild.
Bleach Clean
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- Aug 9, 2006
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Miller can't be here past this offseason.
Drag it out for more suitors if you have to, but carrying this drama over to next season is pure folly.
He did this with Lundqvist, Horvat and now Pettersson. He was traded 2 days after confronting HL. He was traded out of TBay after 1.5 years and DET is not a major player for his services now, coincidence?
Now we have the LOA and pouting at the end of the bench when Tocchet crticizes his play. It's never going to stop. Or if it does, it will resurface. Tocchet is a grown man, and they have conflict. (I thought this was about the immaturity of two players?)
When there is so much evidence, to cover your eyes only makes your assessment suspect. You don't have to like Pettersson's on ice play (I don't) to understand that Miller is the culprit here.
He has to go.
Drag it out for more suitors if you have to, but carrying this drama over to next season is pure folly.
He did this with Lundqvist, Horvat and now Pettersson. He was traded 2 days after confronting HL. He was traded out of TBay after 1.5 years and DET is not a major player for his services now, coincidence?
Now we have the LOA and pouting at the end of the bench when Tocchet crticizes his play. It's never going to stop. Or if it does, it will resurface. Tocchet is a grown man, and they have conflict. (I thought this was about the immaturity of two players?)
When there is so much evidence, to cover your eyes only makes your assessment suspect. You don't have to like Pettersson's on ice play (I don't) to understand that Miller is the culprit here.
He has to go.
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krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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where do i vote for more threads about miller and/or pettersson?
The best case scenario is if somehow the 4 Nations tourney gives everyone a well needed break, then the both of they play well, Demko's healthy, and we have a better D-core through trade.
IMO trade both or trade neither and let the chips fall where they may.
IMO trade both or trade neither and let the chips fall where they may.
Obviously we as fans have no idea what's fully going on behind the scenes (conflicting reports don't help), but if it isn't a complete dumpster fire situation then my belief is that winning will ease the tension at least for the remainder of the season.
Pay whatever is necessary for a legitimate top 4 D that can move the puck, shake up the roster with 2-3 other moves involving lesser pieces (Hoglander, Heinen, Desharnais, Demko, etc.), and try to bring in another vocal level-headed veteran for the sake of the locker room.
HOWEVER, if it *IS* a completely irreparable situation behind the scenes then I think you have to move one of Miller or Petey before the deadline. If you can't get back a legitimate 2nd line center for Miller then I think you have to look at moving Pettersson despite the age difference. This team NEEDS to compete these next few years or else they risk losing Hughes for nothing in free agency.
Pay whatever is necessary for a legitimate top 4 D that can move the puck, shake up the roster with 2-3 other moves involving lesser pieces (Hoglander, Heinen, Desharnais, Demko, etc.), and try to bring in another vocal level-headed veteran for the sake of the locker room.
HOWEVER, if it *IS* a completely irreparable situation behind the scenes then I think you have to move one of Miller or Petey before the deadline. If you can't get back a legitimate 2nd line center for Miller then I think you have to look at moving Pettersson despite the age difference. This team NEEDS to compete these next few years or else they risk losing Hughes for nothing in free agency.
