What Separates Rodgers from Mahomes?

[Crosby2010]

the only guys i'm putting ahead of mahomes now are brady, montana, and manning (longevity.) he's already surpassed rodgers and with another several onsistently good seasons he'll surpass manning too

We are missing more. Brady obviously is the gold standard here. I know people need things to write about but Mahomes is miles away from catching him and probably never will. But after that you still have Montana, Manning, Unitas, Marino, Elway ahead of him. Favre, Brees, Rodgers in my mind are still ahead of him. He's likely surpassed Young, Graham, etc. and the likes of Staubach, Tarkenton, Aikman, and co. But if he is in the top 10 of all-time he's basically just #10 in my books.

Remember folks, 6 years vs. 15 or more. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

As for what separates him from Rodgers I think longevity so far and there has never been quite the same coaching/support that Mahomes has gotten. Both are similar in style though of course as both scramble when you can't imagine them getting away.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Mahomes has the red assed will to win which Rodgers lacks.
Rodgers looks like preseason loss in the playoffs like he has better places to be.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

We are missing more. Brady obviously is the gold standard here. I know people need things to write about but Mahomes is miles away from catching him and probably never will. But after that you still have Montana, Manning, Unitas, Marino, Elway ahead of him. Favre, Brees, Rodgers in my mind are still ahead of him. He's likely surpassed Young, Graham, etc. and the likes of Staubach, Tarkenton, Aikman, and co. But if he is in the top 10 of all-time he's basically just #10 in my books.

Remember folks, 6 years vs. 15 or more. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

As for what separates him from Rodgers I think longevity so far and there has never been quite the same coaching/support that Mahomes has gotten. Both are similar in style though of course as both scramble when you can't imagine them getting away.

lol having Mahomes at 10 is insane.

He's top 3 at worst, arguably 2. He has the best start to a career in NFL history, better than Brady. Brady obviously did it for another 15 years so Mahomes still has a long way to go but it is inarguable that he has had a better start.

 

[Troy McClure]

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Mahomes is number 2 at this point. All he has to look forward to is Brady.

 

[Terry Yake]

We are missing more. Brady obviously is the gold standard here. I know people need things to write about but Mahomes is miles away from catching him and probably never will. But after that you still have Montana, Manning, Unitas, Marino, Elway ahead of him. Favre, Brees, Rodgers in my mind are still ahead of him. He's likely surpassed Young, Graham, etc. and the likes of Staubach, Tarkenton, Aikman, and co. But if he is in the top 10 of all-time he's basically just #10 in my books.

Remember folks, 6 years vs. 15 or more. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.

As for what separates him from Rodgers I think longevity so far and there has never been quite the same coaching/support that Mahomes has gotten. Both are similar in style though of course as both scramble when you can't imagine them getting away.

there is zero argument to be made to have guys like marino, elway, favre, brees, rodgers, and unitas ahead of him

the only guy you can put ahead of him for longevity purposes is manning and that's because manning was an absolute force for almost two decades

 

[EpochLink]

Rodgers is his own worst enemy, outside of 2010 he’s been ass in the conference championship games. Some years that he hasn’t reached the NFC championship game, his performance was meh at best.

 

[Troy McClure]

Rodgers is his own worst enemy, outside of 2010 he’s been ass in the conference championship games. Some years that he hasn’t reached the NFC championship game, his performance was meh at best.

And his desire to be both GM and OC have worked to hurt the team as well. Same with him not doing off-season work with the team.

Shit, drafting Jordan Love was the best thing the Packers did in recent years specifically because it pissed Rodgers off. He went out and had an MVP season to prove the Packers they shouldn't have drafted a QB.

 

[EpochLink]

And his desire to be both GM and OC have worked to hurt the team as well. Same with him not doing off-season work with the team.

Shit, drafting Jordan Love was the best thing the Packers did in recent years specifically because it pissed Rodgers off. He went out and had an MVP season to prove the Packers they shouldn't have drafted a QB.

And when he won those MVP’s, he never sniffed the Super Bowl. That game at home against the Niners on 2021 was his stank ass being horrible. Once that opening drive TD happened, Packers played like ass on offense all game.

Defense was gassed.

 

[Peat]

That Mahomes stat is freaky, nay, grotesque. I don't want to discount the support Mahomes gets from Reid, his weapons (although he wasn't blessed there this year), his defence (although isn't this the first year they've been a blessing?) but I think that stat is part of it too. I can't remember the last time I saw a team athlete who felt so clutch or inevitable. There's been a lot of really close playoff games for the Chiefs. Really they should have lost a few of them. They haven't and I think Mahomes is a big part of that.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Reid was always a winning coach though, even with B to C level quarterbacks (5 conference championships appearances, one SB appearance), he's alot like Shanahan in that regard. This isn't the same situation as Bill Bellichik who's only bouts of success coincide with him having Tom Brady as his QB.

But winning SB's with B to C level QB's is hard, you need an historically great defense to pull it off.

Donovan McNabb was better than a "B or C level QB". He's pretty much Russell Wilson minus the ring.

 

[Crosby2010]

lol having Mahomes at 10 is insane.

He's top 3 at worst, arguably 2. He has the best start to a career in NFL history, better than Brady. Brady obviously did it for another 15 years so Mahomes still has a long way to go but it is inarguable that he has had a better start.

And yet the GOAT did it for two decades. Even when he wasn't winning Super Bowls he was on the most dominant regular season team in history in 2007 which was only thwarted by a helmet catch no one ever saw before.

That Mahomes stat is freaky, nay, grotesque. I don't want to discount the support Mahomes gets from Reid, his weapons (although he wasn't blessed there this year), his defence (although isn't this the first year they've been a blessing?) but I think that stat is part of it too. I can't remember the last time I saw a team athlete who felt so clutch or inevitable. There's been a lot of really close playoff games for the Chiefs. Really they should have lost a few of them. They haven't and I think Mahomes is a big part of that.

I think we tend to forget that the Patriots had those close Super Bowls as well. Driving down the field to set up Vinatieri's field goal was clutch as well. Brady had a ton of these clutch moments. You don't win 35 playoff games and not have those moments. How do you explain how Mahomes couldn't beat him in two playoff games? One of them being in KC. What I notice from the Patriots and the Chiefs are that the Chiefs are always chasing teams. The Patriots and Brady did have their comebacks, don't get me wrong, but they were far better at sealing a victory and adding the insurance points. All three times Mahomes has won the Super Bowl his team was down 10 points. Each time the opposition really just needed a 1st down - as the Niners did the other day - to end it. Do we lavish praise on him if he is 1-3 in Super Bowls right now?

there is zero argument to be made to have guys like marino, elway, favre, brees, rodgers, and unitas ahead of him

the only guy you can put ahead of him for longevity purposes is manning and that's because manning was an absolute force for almost two decades

Why is there zero argument? He has to have the staying power like the other all-time greats did. 6 seasons does not put you at that level unless you did something that Gretzky did from 1979-'85 in his first 6 years. Those guys won either multiple championships in their career or they were great for a very long time. Why don't we give Mahomes time first and see what he can do for longer? He's been great, but he hasn't been at the level where he just needs 6 NFL seasons to be the #2 QB.

44 years old in 2021 and he finishes 2nd in MVP voting to Rodgers. Leads the NHL in touchdowns and passing yards. When a QB can have that sort of 20 year spread then it is time to start comparing.

 

[Karterthadon]

Donovan McNabb was better than a "B or C level QB". He's pretty much Russell Wilson minus the ring.

Russell has a ring thanks to an historically great defense. What else has he done in this league really? He was a good undersized mobile quarterback but without the Legend of Boom, what was he?

But the comp is good, McNabb was a great athlete but a mediocre inaccurate passer.

 

[Terry Yake]

Why is there zero argument? He has to have the staying power like the other all-time greats did. 6 seasons does not put you at that level unless you did something that Gretzky did from 1979-'85 in his first 6 years. Those guys won either multiple championships in their career or they were great for a very long time. Why don't we give Mahomes time first and see what he can do for longer? He's been great, but he hasn't been at the level where he just needs 6 NFL seasons to be the #2 QB.

44 years old in 2021 and he finishes 2nd in MVP voting to Rodgers. Leads the NHL in touchdowns and passing yards. When a QB can have that sort of 20 year spread then it is time to start comparing.

huh? mahomes's first 6 seasons are the greatest stretch by any QB in NFL history. not even brady had a stretch that great in regards to numbers and hardware

never said he's better than brady. and he won't be in my eyes until he eclipses 7 titles, but the only guys i'm putting ahead of him right now are brady, montana, and manning

 

[Crosby2010]

huh? mahomes's first 6 seasons are the greatest stretch by any QB in NFL history. not even brady had a stretch that great in regards to numbers and hardware

never said he's better than brady. and he won't be in my eyes until he eclipses 7 titles, but the only guys i'm putting ahead of him right now are brady, montana, and manning

He's a great QB, I am not taking that away from him. I do think the media needs something to talk about and they've been doing this with Mahomes since his 2nd-3rd year where it just seems like it is assumed he will take the mantle. I agree with the three QBs you mentioned, I'd add at least a couple more. 6 years is just not a lot in my mind yet.

 

[Donnie740]

But after that you still have Montana, Manning, Unitas, Marino, Elway ahead of him. Favre, Brees, Rodgers in my mind are still ahead of him.

Dan Marino never won a big game in his life.

How could he possibly be ranked ahead of Mahomes?

 

[tacogeoff]

Rodgers is overrated by a rabid fan base. simple as that.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Dan Marino never won a big game in his life.

How could he possibly be ranked ahead of Mahomes?

Best thrower of the football and the best release.

 

[Bourque]

Rodgers is overrated by a rabid fan base. simple as that.

Agreed. He's won as many conference titles as Rex Grossman, 1. He's not a first ballot HoFer.

 

[Karterthadon]

There's two lines of debate here, talent and career accomplishments. Talent wise, Tom Brady was nothing special but he's had the greatest career in the history of the sport.

But as far as pure natural talent is concerned, Marino and Rogers have to be the two most talented players this sport has ever seen (At the QB position at least)

Elway is not too far off from these two.

 

[GKJ]

That has aged well in his favour. At the time everyone even the normally swashbuckling Terry Bradshaw were waving their Karen fingers at him. Now, no one is about that, they quieted down in a hurry. But either way, he'd have to run over Roger Goodell with his car to not be let into Canton with his career. This isn't even an argument that he gets in right away. He does.

He was never going to be left out entirely because of it, but going on Pat McAfee’s show yelling about conspiracy theories happened just last month and given he was back on the next day (after they made it a point to tell everyone he wasn’t coming back ‘this season’) to talk more about his expertise given his actual unique qualifications, seems to be an indication that he at least felt obliged when someone told him that he needs to cut that shit out, so I wouldn’t say it ‘aged well in his favor.’

 

[Donnie740]

That’s why you can’t just rely on looking at a stat sheet to evaluate players.

Phil Rivers threw for more passing yards and more touchdowns that Marino. And just like Marino, Rivers never won a big game in his life either.

Not sure what significance a second Super Bowl appearance would have been for Marino - - is a two time loser superior to a one time loser? What about a four time loser like Jim Kelly?

The truly elite players have the numbers AND the championship rings. Padding your stats in September and October against bottom feeders is about as hollow as it gets.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

There's two lines of debate here, talent and career accomplishments. Talent wise, Tom Brady was nothing special but he's had the greatest career in the history of the sport.

But as far as pure natural talent is concerned, Marino and Rogers have to be the two most talented players this sport has ever seen (At the QB position at least)

Elway is not too far off from these two.

Agreed. He's won as many conference titles as Rex Grossman, 1. He's not a first ballot HoFer.

Some "wild" takes in here.....

 

[Crosby2010]

He was never going to be left out entirely because of it, but going on Pat McAfee’s show yelling about conspiracy theories happened just last month and given he was back on the next day (after they made it a point to tell everyone he wasn’t coming back ‘this season’) to talk more about his expertise given his actual unique qualifications, seems to be an indication that he at least felt obliged when someone told him that he needs to cut that shit out, so I wouldn’t say it ‘aged well in his favor.’

At the very least you can say Rodgers exposed some idiocy in the NFL rules in 2021. And then backed it up with an MVP season. When you think about Mahomes and style-wise you think about Rodgers or Young or someone like that. Rodgers isn't everyone's cup of tea, but no one should be denying his all-time great status. Despite the NFC championship games he lost can you really hang the guy out to dry when his team flubbed an onside kick in 2014? That was a Brady/Rodgers Super Bowl that year otherwise (not that we didn't get a classic game either way). Or even in 2020 against the Bucs, why did they not let him have the ball in his hand and try for the touchdown and 2pt. convert on 4th down? Instead they kick the field goal in the hopes of getting the ball back and they never did. Or the 51-45 game vs. Arizona vs. Warner. How do you possibly play better than that as a QB? Or the hail marys against Arizona years after that. I know that Rodgers probably should have figured out a way to close out one of those but he is far from a Marino in that aspect because he has some snake bit moments that were not caused by him. And it isn't as if he couldn't win either as he did.

 

[GKJ]

At the very least you can say Rodgers exposed some idiocy in the NFL rules in 2021. And then backed it up with an MVP season. When you think about Mahomes and style-wise you think about Rodgers or Young or someone like that. Rodgers isn't everyone's cup of tea, but no one should be denying his all-time great status. Despite the NFC championship games he lost can you really hang the guy out to dry when his team flubbed an onside kick in 2014? That was a Brady/Rodgers Super Bowl that year otherwise (not that we didn't get a classic game either way). Or even in 2020 against the Bucs, why did they not let him have the ball in his hand and try for the touchdown and 2pt. convert on 4th down? Instead they kick the field goal in the hopes of getting the ball back and they never did. Or the 51-45 game vs. Arizona vs. Warner. How do you possibly play better than that as a QB? Or the hail marys against Arizona years after that. I know that Rodgers probably should have figured out a way to close out one of those but he is far from a Marino in that aspect because he has some snake bit moments that were not caused by him. And it isn't as if he couldn't win either as he did.

I don’t really hold him much responsible for most of those losses really other than really the last one to the 49ers, which only turned on a blocked punt, and the run game was a culprit.