What made Dougy Gilmour such a great player?

[Gerulaitis]

I hate the Leafs,(And the Flames for that matter) but I loved Gilmour. Great all around player. That was just 1993.

A proper early 90s techno soundtrack.

Wasn't Gilmour ranked the best player in the NHL by Hockey News going into the 1994/95 season?

 

[Slats432]

A proper early 90s techno soundtrack.

Wasn't Gilmour ranked the best player in the NHL by Hockey News going into the 1994/95 season?

The Top 40 players had Mario 1st, Dougie 2nd.

 

[Gerulaitis]

The Top 40 players had Mario 1st, Dougie 2nd.

Thanks for the correction

 

[Slats432]

Thanks for the correction

Oh no problem. I was shocked to see Gretzky ranked 7th...in anything.

 

[Gerulaitis]

Oh no problem. I was shocked to see Gretzky ranked 7th...in anything.

I think there were Roy and Fedorov in top 5. Who else? Leetch?

 

[Slats432]

I think there were Roy and Fedorov in top 5. Who else? Leetch?

Federov, Roy, Leetch, Lindros, Gretzky.

 

[The Panther]

I also didn't overlook the Dan Quinn story that sort of conveniently disappeared.

What's this...?

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

What's this...?

Dan Quinn, hotel in Minnesota (search November 10th 1992). Lemieux was supposedly there at the time, and others.

I was going off of memory, but my timeline was off. Lemieux got cancer while the investigations were going on (though articles aren't consistent with how long he knew that he had cancer). He announced that he was diagnosed with cancer on January 12th, 1993. The "R" case (Dan Quinn) was dropped, or it was announced that it was dropped, on November 25th, 1992.

The case did go to the Supreme Court of Minnesota (1994).

To add, my feeling then was that Lemieux announcing that he was diagnosed with cancer, sort of killed the Dan Quinn thing, as far as gaining momentum with public opinion. Over the years, it's just a story that came and went.

 

[authentic]

The Top 40 players had Mario 1st, Dougie 2nd.

I seem to remember getting into an argument with a kid on my hockey team during this time claiming Lemieux was the best and he claimed it was Gilmour. He said how can you be the best player if you hardly even play, which was actually a fair point lol

 

[Slats432]

What's this...?

Jury Won't Indict Gilmour on Sex Charge

A grand jury has decided not to indict former St.

www.latimes.com

 

[sr edler]

Same thing that made Doogie Howser a great doctor, namely swagger.

 

[Stephen]

I can't see his peak being better than Jagr's or McDavid's or Kucherov's or MacKinnon's. Then, there's Messier, Yzerman...

Gilmour certainly had an outstanding 1992-93 and a very good 1993-94... but these get a little overblown because Toronto. (His scoring finish in 1987 was higher than in 1993.) His ES production in 1992-1994 was about the same as with 1987 St. Louis or c.1989-1991 Calgary, with the difference being overall ice-time and PP time. In Calgary, he'd been effectively used as a second-liner and had to share PP time with Nieuwendyk, etc.

I mean, what is Gilmour's peak anyway? Is it just 1992-93? In 1993-94, he scored 98 points in the final 78 games, which, considering ice-time increase and PP increase, probably puts his production (per-60 or whatever) below 1990-91 Calgary and maybe 1986-87 St. Louis.

1992-93 was a "peak of peaks", I guess, but I'd say his peak is basically spring 1986 to spring 1994. And it would be a hard sell to say that peak is better than the six guys I listed above (not to mention Lindros, Fedorov, Kane, etc., etc...).


Note: I should add that one thing I like about Gilmour is that he really brought it in the playoffs. Good playoff performer, consistently! (We'll overlook his game four vs. L.A. in 1990 and his brutal gaffe in the first period of game 7 vs. the same team in 1993...)

Doug Gilmour's 1993 playoff run to the conference finals produced 35 points in 21 games which currently ranks 11th highest of all time. When he retired, the only players to hit more than 35 points in a single run were Gretzky, Lemieux and Coffey.

He was pretty much overclocking in 1993 and 1994, but 301 regular season and playoff points in 2 seasons is remarkably special.

I just did a few cursory checks with some of the non Gretzky/Lemieux names like McDavid, Coffey, Bossy, Yzerman, Jagr, Lindros, Trottier, Mackinnon, Kucherov. Looks like only McDavid, Coffey and Bossy hit those levels.

 

[FerrisRox]

For those who saw him in his prime in Calgary and eventually gets traded to Toronto. What was it about him that made him so good?

Very few players, that I have seen, have the exact same level of effort, determination and energy with or without the puck, but Gilmour did.

His tenacity and effort was identical if there was a loose puck that he could corral and head off on a 2 on 1 as he did if there was a chance to get into a passing lane in the defensive zone. He worked just as hard when he had the puck as he did when he didn't have. He wanted to win more than any player I've ever seen.

I would argue, though, that his peak began before he was a Flame. He was absolutely dominant for the St. Louis Blues in the 1986 playoffs and in my mind, he peak began there.

It's funny how many fans, at the time, seemed unaware of how good Gilmour really was. Many in Toronto, and in the Toronto media, wanted to pretend that he "became a superstar" in Toronto. While he posted his best personal point totals as a Maple Leaf, there's no doubt in my mind that was more a product of the extremely high scoring era of the early 1990's. Gilmour at the end of his time in St. Louis and the beginning of his time as a Flame, when he was outstanding in their Cup run, was at his very peak. In Toronto, with way less of a supporting cast and so much more media attention, went to another level of notoriety - and he played great - but he wasn't quite as dominant as he had been a couple of years before.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Very few players, that I have seen, have the exact same level of effort, determination and energy with or without the puck, but Gilmour did.

His tenacity and effort was identical if there was a loose puck that he could corral and head off on a 2 on 1 as he did if there was a chance to get into a passing lane in the defensive zone. He worked just as hard when he had the puck as he did when he didn't have. He wanted to win more than any player I've ever seen.

I would argue, though, that his peak began before he was a Flame. He was absolutely dominant for the St. Louis Blues in the 1986 playoffs and in my mind, he peak began there.

It's funny how many fans, at the time, seemed unaware of how good Gilmour really was. Many in Toronto, and in the Toronto media, wanted to pretend that he "became a superstar" in Toronto. While he posted his best personal point totals as a Maple Leaf, there's no doubt in my mind that was more a product of the extremely high scoring era of the early 1990's. Gilmour at the end of his time in St. Louis and the beginning of his time as a Flame, when he was outstanding in their Cup run, was at his very peak. In Toronto, with way less of a supporting cast and so much more media attention, went to another level of notoriety - and he played great - but he wasn't quite as dominant as he had been a couple of years before.

I kind of agree. He was Calgary's best all around forward when they won the Cup. Like I said above, Gilmour was pushing 30 when he got to the Leafs and maybe already past his physical prime.

The reason he became a "superstar" in Toronto is that he was relied upon so heavily there and like you said that brought along the accompanying increase in point totals. The attention you get in a Toronto market certainly didn't hurt either. Toronto loves players that work hard out there and Gilmour didn't take any shifts off.

But yeah, he was also great in St. Louis and on the Flames but the Flames in particular had a ton of depth and could spread the minutes around more.

 

[The Panther]

Pointless trivia note: Gilmour was named first star of the first NHL game I was in attendance at (March 1989).

 

[VanIslander]

I saw him live in Calgary and Vancouver against my team, and... he just.never.stops.

This guy's motor is relentless. He has the grace of patience with the puck but you know he wants to release it at every microsecond. And when he doesn't have the puck he is the most eager player on the ice to chase the pck carrier.

He played playoff hockey in November and January. "Pace yourself" was not in his vocabulary. He would be breathless on the bench in the first period next to laughing lackidaisical teammates. The contrast was stark.

One reason i love Yzerman and Hasek is they always, always are dialed in, hard wired to perform, giving it their all. Gilmour did too, but i f'n never cheer for Calgary or Toronto so i rarely mention my respect for Gilly.(Though i repeatedly have in his epic productive St.Louis conference finals run with Federko).

 

[DRW895]

I saw him live in Calgary and Vancouver against my team, and... he just.never.stops.

This guy's motor is relentless. He has the grace of patience with the puck but you know he wants to release it at every microsecond. And when he doesn't have the puck he is the most eager player on the ice to chase the pck carrier.

He played playoff hockey in November and January. "Pace yourself" was not in his vocabulary. He would be breathless on the bench in the first period next to laughing lackidaisical teammates. The contrast was stark.

One reason i love Yzerman and Hasek is they always, always are dialed in, hard wired to perform, giving it their all. Gilmour did too, but i f'n never cheer for Calgary or Toronto so i rarely mention my respect for Gilly.(Though i repeatedly have in his epic productive St.Louis conference finals run with Federko).

It`s sad, that due to some issued he was suitcase during all his long NHL career. But he is still best that happened in Toronto after 1967

 

[JianYang]

Sam Bennett on roids basically

I like this one. A rich man's Bennett.

Undersized, but he had a particular snarl to his game right to the end to go along with his offensive instincts.

I remember when varada caught Jose Theodore with his knee and knocked him out. Then Gilmour came back at him and took his knee out from behind. He would have been about 38 years old at the time.

His compeititve nature was on par with his offensive talents.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I'm not a Toronto fan, but his performance in the 1992-93 playoffs was peak Gilmour and some of the best hockey I have ever seen a player play. I'd argue that he gave so much that post-season that he was never quite the same again.
I remember, during that playoff run, him appearing on Coach's Corner and just looking like a living dead man... pale, thin, two black eyes, 100 year stare... all he had left was determination.
What made him great? Skill, tenacity and a literal never say die attitude... at his best, that was what he brought to the table in spades.

 

[67 others]

For those who saw him in his prime in Calgary and eventually gets traded to Toronto. What was it about him that made him so good?

Relentless heart

 

[Stephen]

I like this one. A rich man's Bennett.

Undersized, but he had a particular snarl to his game right to the end to go along with his offensive instincts.

I remember when varada caught Jose Theodore with his knee and knocked him out. Then Gilmour came back at him and took his knee out from behind. He would have been about 38 years old at the time.

His compeititve nature was on par with his offensive talents.

Yeah for modern comparisons I think he was Sam Bennett drive train, Mitch Marner shiftiness and playmaking and Brayden Point drive. But in a slighter frame.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Looked pretty good in Cornwall and St Louis first.

 

[FerrisRox]

Yeah for modern comparisons I think he was Sam Bennett drive train, Mitch Marner shiftiness and playmaking and Brayden Point drive. But in a slighter frame.

Mitch Marner and Doug Gilmour don't belong in the same sentence, ever, regardless of context.

Mitch Marner is the opposite of Doug Gilmour in the post-season. Literally the antithesis. I think Gilmour would be physically ill if he had a teammate like Marner in the playoffs, avoiding contact, coming up short on races to the puck, general cowardice, playing on the outside. Gilmour would never be able to stomach the level of gutlessness that Marner displays.

I know you are just comparing "shiftiness and playmaking" but it's still insulting to Gilmour to draw a comparison of any kind to a guy like Marner.

 

[Stephen]

Mitch Marner and Doug Gilmour don't belong in the same sentence, ever, regardless of context.

Mitch Marner is the opposite of Doug Gilmour in the post-season. Literally the antithesis. I think Gilmour would be physically ill if he had a teammate like Marner in the playoffs, avoiding contact, coming up short on races to the puck, general cowardice, playing on the outside. Gilmour would never be able to stomach the level of gutlessness that Marner displays.

I know you are just comparing "shiftiness and playmaking" but it's still insulting to Gilmour to draw a comparison of any kind to a guy like Marner.

I’m not huge Marner guy whatsoever but get outta here with that hyperbolic overration!

Marner’s shiftiness on his feet, slight frame and passing creativity are one aspect of the puzzle. Bennett’s psychotic drive overlaps with Gilmour’s, and Point’s short stature and death wish style skating into traffic covers the rest of the Gilmour traits.

Point’s pedigree is a little bit atypical here coming from out west but you can see in Bennett and Marner aspects of Gilmour’s legacy that were clearly ideas about how to play the game that influenced kids growing up in the GTA. Or at least what their parent passed on to them. Bennett didn’t have the ability of a Gilmour. Marner doesn’t have the courage of a Gilmour.

 

[Staniowski]

I've said in other threads about Gilmour that he's underrated for his stints in St. Louis and Calgary, and overrated for Toronto.

Gilmour had great hockey sense, was a good puck-carrier and passer. His moment-to-moment play was very engaged, focused, and aggressive (simular to Clarke). Great awareness and smarts.

in Toronto, he carried the puck much more, became the heart of the PP, and just generally was a bigger star within the team. He fit their needs, and they fit his.

He was a bit lacking in skills, though....skating, shooting especially. Overall, he wasn't on a Fedorov level, even at his very best.

Another thing about those two seasons in TO....the NHL wasn't loaded with great teams at the time, which made the Leafs success easier.