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What is the solution to balancing the salary cap with no tax states?

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It’s about making things fair. If you’re going to start changing the cap to adjust for taxes, then how are you also going to adjust for weather, location, entertainment, etc… why is this hard?

I see you have once again ignored the OG question I asked.

1. Why could the no tax teams also sign these front loaded contracts for even more of a gain then? Why was this only an advantage to tax teams in your mind?

2. Only Chicago actually benefited from this in the list of teams from 2006-2014, and they beat other high taxed states to get there … please address…

But 'fairness' is more complicated than equal spending limits. The hard cap will always keep some teams who are in less desirable locations from being able to offset those less desirable qualities with added incentives.

Winnipeg for example, will never be on equal footing with warmer weather locals when it comes to free agent attraction (and keeping RFAs happy).
 
1) will the nhl allow a “tax allowance” to make everyone have the same net effective ceiling?
They should, but they won’t.
2) is it politically palatable for states and cities like ny/nyc to exempt athletes from state and city income tax? IMO it’d be deeply popular from constituents to do so.
No, and the mere suggestion of such a notion is ludicrous. You want to give multi-millionaires who play a game for a living tax breaks? Why? Anyone who thinks this would be a good idea is [mod], unless you’re one of the players themselves, or someone else with a direct vested interest (agents, owners) - then it’s just the usual greed and entitlement.
 
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But 'fairness' is more complicated than equal spending limits. The hard cap will always keep some teams who are in less desirable locations from being able to offset those less desirable qualities with added incentives.

Winnipeg for example, will never be on equal footing with warmer weather locals when it comes to free agent attraction (and keeping RFAs happy).
Sure. And teams like Nashville were operating at like a $90m difference than teams like NYR, Toronto, Wings, etc prior to the cap.
 
14% is a total BS number. Would love to know how you think that is anywhere close to the real differential.
Totally legit number. Cap is approaching $100mm. Floridas top players have around 90% of their salary paid out in bonus which is NOT subject to a state or city tax.

If they had the identical contract in NY around 14% total of that would go to state/city tax. Its a big deal. $14mm is an auston matthews or two elite 2nd liners. Huge deal
 
The 14% only applies to Panarin's games played in NYC. It should be noted that Barkov and Tkachuk pay the same exact taxes when on the road (for their non signing bonus portion of their salary) vs. the Rangers. Just like Panarin plays no state taxes when playing the Panthers or Lightining.

The tax system is ridiculously complex, and if you want to be accurate there is no way to boil it down to just the tax rate difference to do a high level calculation.
You do realize barkov and tkachuk only have $1mm salaries each right? So the other 90% of their contract has ZEROOOOOO state or city tax as its paid in florida in a lump sum
 
1.)What do you mean the money spent is the same?

Are you suggesting that paying all up front is the same as paying over 15 years?

Do you have a mortgage? Poile said the Weber offer sheet almost bankrupt the team.

2.) 21 contracts is a heck of a lot when it’s 5 or 6 teams.
especially when the names are

Hossa. Keith
Luongo
Carter. Quick.
Weber
Datysuk/zetterberg etc.

I would have to see the list. Again but regardless. Even IF we ignored the obvious correlation. Sure. Its still an advantage.


Teams exploiting a loop hole that wasn’t used in the past doesn’t mean that it isn’t a problem now.
21 contracts over like 700 NHL players is in no way shape or form “a lot” :laugh:

Datsyuk does not apply to this btw, no idea what you’re talking about there

Once again, the only team who benefitted with this with actual Cup wins was Chicago. Who once again, beat other state taxed teams. You have zero leg to stand on by completely ignoring the results of the playoffs pre 2016.

The single only reason you’re doing so is it completely nullifies your entire argument.

Very simple question is why would the rich teams ever agree to this cap if the problem was as big as you’re suggesting. It’s such a minuscule detail that no one other than fans of teams who suck are complaining about.
 
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100% agree with Carter. Toronto can't win bc they are top heavy. Whose fault is that? Their own.

Biz is such a little whiner. Totally happy when Toronto lost and he cried and cried and cried.

I laughed and laughed. I'm still laughing. Again, get better players and GMs. And stop crying.

Youre hockey fans for God's sake...act like it.
 
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I still don’t understand why people think this is something the league would address, when there’s absolutely zero precedent for doing something like this. The desire of the NHL (and any other sports league) to have a salary cap does not mean they want to get into the business of correcting for external economic and/or policy factors beyond their control. Let’s put taxes aside and pretend they were zero everywhere. Housing, insurance, food/groceries etc all cost less in St Louis than they do in New York.A player could take less money to play for the Blues and still have a higher standard of living than they could with the Rangers. How come the NHL has never addressed that apparent advantage? Why does the NFL have the same cap for the Packers as they do for the NY Giants when the same $500k house in Green Bay costs multiple millions in New York? This is something no sports league has ever been in the business of doing, so why start now?
Adjusting for cost of living...same as taxes...it all balances out.

People needs to stop crying and start banging on their GMs for sucking.

Kuch was a 2nd rounder for crying out loud. That's great drafting. Some of you look pretty freaking sad.
 
The did not need to do that. They definitely did not need to make it exactly equal. As long as the players got 50% there was nothing to say all teams have the same.

All that did was make teams fake the cap with ltir contracts.

Why would it be ok for some teams to have unfair financial advantages over other?
Just IMO, but the "unfair financial advantage" isn't hugely material. My estimate is the tax free states have somewhere around 2% advantage on normal cost municipalities (IL, PA, OH, NC, etc) and 7% on high tax municipalities (NY, CAL, TOR, etc). To me, that's not overly significant in relation to where people want to play.

EDIT: It has been mentioned, but the ability of a team to front load a contract can have at least large an impact to a player total contract value than the tax difference.
 
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That doesn’t mean an unfair advantage didn’t exist.

That’s like saying “it doesn’t matter if Mike Tyson used steroids, he was going to win anyway”
It is not an "unfair advantage" because -- as has been written about at least a million times here on HF boards -- the purpose of the cap is for financial budgeting purposes and not to ensure competitive equality.
 
Players say they strongly consider it, and take it into consideration

but posters on here say it is a nothing burger


hmmmmmmmm who to trust?
Whether it's a consideration for some players or not isn't the point, and very few (maybe none) of the posters pointing out how stupid this whole thing is are saying that no player ever takes this into consideration. But keep talking past people and building strawmen
 
One single tax free team. We’re simply in a cycle right now where the tax free teams are being well run. It’s as simple as that.
If that’s the case, then GMs of those well run teams should go to Northern teams and try to win where their efforts would be appreciated by 10x the population. Winning in Canadian cities would make them well known in the city. Something tells me that they know how good they have it with the advantages southern markets have and won’t consider this.
 
If that’s the case, then GMs of those well run teams should go to Northern teams and try to win where their efforts would be appreciated by 10x the population. Winning in Canadian cities would make them well known in the city. Something tells me that they know how good they have it with the advantages southern markets have and won’t consider this.
So like Yzerman? Except he did not think in that way, that's an insane train of thought, why would anyone EVER think that way. BUT like all contract job opportunities involved, there are other factors involved. There are more than 1 singular factor to a decision being made. Yzerman choose to go back to Michigan for family & yeah legacy of likely taking over Detroit soon was probably a factor. Yzerman certainly didn't make that choice because he wants to be more appreciated for his work or well known. Silliness.

I get what you guys are saying with there being an advantage. It's just no this dramatic as a lot of BAD correlation, bad small sample size arguments, and bad justifications are saying. Location and city impacts decisions to sign for multiple people in multiple ways. Some players only want to sign in the north east or NYC specifically. You can't rearrange things to change that.
 
21 contracts over like 700 NHL players is in no way shape or form “a lot” :laugh:

Datsyuk does not apply to this btw, no idea what you’re talking about there

Once again, the only team who benefitted with this with actual Cup wins was Chicago. Who once again, beat other state taxed teams. You have zero leg to stand on by completely ignoring the results of the playoffs pre 2016.

The single only reason you’re doing so is it completely nullifies your entire argument.

Very simple question is why would the rich teams ever agree to this cap if the problem was as big as you’re suggesting. It’s such a minuscule detail that no one other than fans of teams who suck are complaining about.

I don’t know what “21 contracts” that poster is referring to. He didn’t put up a list.

Unlike how I Actually quoted specific GMs.

You just take 21 contracts as gospel. Interesting.

Articles have put zetterberg, franzen, Weber, subban, hossa. Keith. Carter, luongo, quick as the contracts.

And yes. Having multiple players on the same team with cheater contracts is an advantage. There are lots of cups/finalists.

Also. Rich teams don’t have to agree to the specific equal cap. They only get one vote.


Here is Grier talking about how he would support tax equalization

Here is trotz admitting he has a “much easier time retaining and signing players” due to taxes.

Kevyn Adam’s said he had high taxes and no palm trees.

So it’s clearly being considered. You are just wrong again.

Show me one gm that says it’s not an issue?

It is not an "unfair advantage" because -- as has been written about at least a million times here on HF boards -- the purpose of the cap is for financial budgeting purposes and not to ensure competitive equality.

No. Forcing teams to all have the same cap is for competitive equality. Or parity as they call it.
 
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If that’s the case, then GMs of those well run teams should go to Northern teams and try to win where their efforts would be appreciated by 10x the population. Winning in Canadian cities would make them well known in the city. Something tells me that they know how good they have it with the advantages southern markets have and won’t consider this.
Why weren’t any of these southern teams winning anything from 2006-2020?
 
I don’t know what “21 contracts” that poster is referring to. He didn’t put up a list.

Unlike how I Actually quoted specific GMs.

You just take 21 contracts as gospel. Interesting.

Articles have put zetterberg, franzen, Weber, subban, hossa. Keith. Carter, luongo, quick as the contracts.

And yes. Having multiple players on the same team with cheater contracts is an advantage. There are lots of cups/finalists.

Also. Rich teams don’t have to agree to the specific equal cap. They only get one vote.


Here is Grier talking about how he would support tax equalization

Here is trotz admitting he has a “much easier time retaining and signing players” due to taxes.

Kevyn Adam’s said he had high taxes and no palm trees.

So it’s clearly being considered. You are just wrong again.

Show me one gm that says it’s not an issue?



No. Forcing teams to all have the same cap is for competitive equality. Or parity as they call it.
So how do you adjust the cap for players signing below market value in Toronto because they’re from Toronto ?

Or because they get way higher sponsorship opportunities?
 
So how do you adjust the cap for players signing below market value in Toronto because they’re from Toronto ?

Or because they get way higher sponsorship opportunities?

Sweet Jesus. That’s irrelevant to this specific issue. The NHL is under no obligation to cap or “equalize” anything. Salaries. Housing costs. Endorsements. Media. Those are all outside of the players cba. Salaries aren’t.

They chose to cap salaries. And they chose to enforce parity by making the cap equal despite unequal revenues and desire. Arizona was taking in dead cap to meet the floor. It’s madness

Once you choose to make parity in a situation you have to make it fair.

Whether or not they choose to make other things fair is irrelevant to this issue.

your argument is for no salary cap at all. If they can’t cap endorsements or taxes or cost of living. Then I guess they can’t cap salaries either right?

One issue does not have to make up for another issue. Vancouver players don’t get to take steroids to make up for the fact they don’t have a practice rink or worse gym equipment.

If you impose parity in one issue Make it fair

Also in that article. Marty Walsh openly acknowledged the “tax issue”. And the difficulty in solving it. He does NOT say it’s not an issue. He acknowledged it. The head of the players union knows it’s an issue.

One day you can tell them better. .
 
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You do realize barkov and tkachuk only have $1mm salaries each right? So the other 90% of their contract has ZEROOOOOO state or city tax as its paid in florida in a lump sum
But not every player gets 90% of their payroll paid via signing bonus. The examples I use are for the vast majority of NHL players.

But you make my point for me. Every players tax situation is unique, which makes any "tax equalization" plan either incredibly complex or likely to not accurately reflect the situation.
 
Sweet Jesus. That’s irrelevant to this specific issue. The NHL is under no obligation to cap or “equalize” anything. Salaries. Housing costs. Endorsements. Media. Those are all outside of the players cba. Salaries aren’t.

They chose to cap salaries. And they chose to enforce parity by making the cap equal despite unequal revenues and desire. Arizona was taking in dead cap to meet the floor. It’s madness

Once you choose to make parity in a situation you have to make it fair.

Whether or not they choose to make other things fair is irrelevant to this issue.

your argument is for no salary cap at all. If they can’t cap endorsements or taxes or cost of living. Then I guess they can’t cap salaries either right?

One issue does not have to make up for another issue. Vancouver players don’t get to take steroids to make up for the fact they don’t have a practice rink or worse gym equipment.

If you impose parity in one issue Make it fair

Also in that article. Marty Walsh openly acknowledged the “tax issue”. And the difficulty in solving it. He does NOT say it’s not an issue. He acknowledged it. The head of the players union knows it’s an issue.

One day you can tell them better. .
If you want fair, then coaching, scouting and front office costs should also be included in the salary cap. Also, every team should spend to the midpoint and not 20% over.

Also, teams should be forced to fly extra miles to match the worst teams miles traveled schedule for "fairness".
 
If you want fair, then coaching, scouting and front office costs should also be included in the salary cap. Also, every team should spend to the midpoint and not 20% over.
Those have nothing to do with the current issue. I don’t “want fair”
The NHL chose to impose parity. They have to make that fair.

Make you thread about them. I would personally be fine with that but i don’t know what agents gms players and accountants think of office staff in salary caps

But if they did that. Then they would have to make that rule fair
 
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So how do you adjust the cap for players signing below market value in Toronto because they’re from Toronto ?

Or because they get way higher sponsorship opportunities?
Any advantages that Toronto has are earned and deserved. Any advantages Florida or any other warmer/nicer place has are illegitimate and need to be taken away from them.
 
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