What is the solution to balancing the salary cap with no tax states?

[joestevens29]

I highly doubt property taxes are going to play into anything. These guys will go out and blow more money in a weekend than what property taxes are.

Now having a nice custom home like say McDavid does in Edmonton compared to what he'd get in other markets would be the big difference.

 

[LilLeeroy]

Actually that’s wrong, it’s quite high.

Everywhere in Florida is below the national average as far as I'm aware? Vermont is quite high.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Everywhere in Florida is below the national average as far as I'm aware? Vermont is quite high.

Not according to people I know that live there, or Floridians in this thread.

 

[Legion34]

There is no clear tax advantage. Signing bonuses eliminate “nearly” all of it and potential for getting well paying commercial endorsements actually makes LA, NY, Tor, Mon, more financially beneficial.
You keep pretending the tax situation is a be all end all. Do you know what doesn’t change … the weather in Florida, California, Texas, Tennessee and Carolina vs the north.
You also ignore superior scouting. Home grown teams vs teams constantly over paying UFA’s or like the idiot Leafs adding an over payed UFA to destroy their entire salary structure.

1.) signing bonuses do NOT eliminate bonuses. They make it worse. You get to pay no state tax on you sb in Florida. You pay state tax in California. You don’t get taxed per day in the territorial jurisdiction like base salary.

2.) even IF sb were beneficial. All teams have equal right to sign them if their owners fake poor that’s a choice. Toronto doesn’t get to pay players taxes.

3.) weather media endorsements aren’t artificially capped by the league.

4.) I’m not ignoring anything. They aren’t the topic of conversation.

That’s like saying welll sure bonds took steroids but you are ignoring how much he practiced

 

[Beerz]

I'd rather they restrict the amount of NTC/NMC to something like 3 per team at any given time. I think that would help the game more than any of this.

Yes.. I'm extremely bias.

 

[Summer Rose]

Not according to people I know that live there, or Floridians in this thread.

According to an article I found, as of 2022, the state-local tax burden in Florida is 9.1%, which is ranked 11th lowest in the country. The same website also states that 20% of tax revenue collected in Florida comes from nonresidents. For reference, the highest is New York at 15.9% (the article is inconsistent; the map says 15.9% and then a table later in the article says 14.2%) and the lowest is Alaska at 5.6%. Alaska also collects 60% of its tax revenue from nonresidents.

As for property taxes, the same website gives a property tax rate in Florida of 0.71%, and I couldn't find anything about how this rate ranks compared to the other 49 states and DC, but I did find a table on the website that shows Florida as 28th for state and local property tax collections per capita ($1,686) as of 2024.

To drag it back to the topic of the thread, I'm not really sure how this affects high earners such as professional athletes. Also, here's a link to the website (specifically the state tax data of 2024, but you can poke around on that website for more information like I was doing):

Facts & Figures 2024: How Does Your State Compare?

Facts & Figures serves as a one-stop state tax data resource that compares all 50 states on over 40 measures of tax rates, collections, burdens, and more.

taxfoundation.org

 

[thestonedkoala]

I mean the loophole in the LTIR is a bigger problem than the tax issue or the fact that the NHL doesn't take discipline seriously ...

 

[Space umpire]

1.) signing bonuses do NOT eliminate bonuses. They make it worse. You get to pay no state tax on you sb in Florida. You pay state tax in California. You don’t get taxed per day in the territorial jurisdiction like base salary.

2.) even IF sb were beneficial. All teams have equal right to sign them if their owners fake poor that’s a choice. Toronto doesn’t get to pay players taxes.

3.) weather media endorsements aren’t artificially capped by the league.

4.) I’m not ignoring anything. They aren’t the topic of conversation.

That’s like saying welll sure bonds took steroids but you are ignoring how much he practiced

I have to stop. I feel like I’m having a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
If the player chooses to make his legal residence in California then sure. But please, tell me you have more than that, I’ve read your posts on other threads, you’re not as stupid as you sound right now.
You should have all on your own realized that nobody getting 90+ % of their salary paid by signing bonus is going to reside full time in places like California or New York.
Or maybe you did realize it and realized it hurts your (already nonexistent) case so you ignore it just as you ignored signing amount data that makes your claims silly.

I’m done with you. You’re either acting stupid, … or not acting. Either way I’m out.

 

[tucker3434]

If the league really wanted high-tax, big market teams to spend more money, they’d just do a luxury tax. It would be a SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper and easier Way to accomplish that goal.

 

[Legion34]

I have to stop. I feel like I’m having a battle of wits with an unarmed man.
If the player chooses to make his legal residence in California then sure. But please, tell me you have more than that, I’ve read your posts on other threads, you’re not as stupid as you sound right now.
You should have all on your own realized that nobody getting 90+ % of their salary paid by signing bonus is going to reside full time in places like California or New York.
Or maybe you did realize it and realized it hurts your (already nonexistent) case so you ignore it just as you ignored signing amount data that makes your claims silly.

I’m done with you. You’re either acting stupid, … or not acting. Either way I’m out.

1.) 7 of the league teams are Canadian. They can’t do that. Tavares just tried and got sure for 15 million.

2.) it’s much more complicated than you make it seem. There is literally an article where Mike Grier. Brisebois and guentzel all admit is an advantage like 3 posts up. They say no state tax team platers take home more money. Not “accountants can fix it”.

3.) even if we didn’t just have direct statements from GMs and players. Why would no state tax players take less consistently? If it’s all the same. Why isn’t it the same?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Basketball is a different sport and can’t be used as a direct one to one comparison for a multitude of factors (team composition and size, star vs role player impact, luxury tax, etc). The advantage could be bigger in one sport when compared to another. Even then your list still has multiple finals appearances over the last few years.

Look at the NHL recent cup finalists,
Florida-EDM or Dallas
Florida-EDM
Florida-Vegas
Tampa-Avs
Tampa-MTL
Tampa-Dallas
BOS-STL
WSH-Vegas
Pitt-NSH

Bolded are tax free teams, there’s only 6 of them and one of them is Seattle and is new. I don’t get how anyone can say that it is not a massive factor for these teams.

Tax free teams are 19% of the league but have been to 53% of the last 9 finals, and every single one of them made at least one finals except for Seattle who haven’t been around.

Keep going:
Pitt - SJ
Chicago- Tampa
LA- NYR
CHI- BOS
LA- NJ
BOS- VAN
DET- PITT
DET- PITT
ANA- OTT
CAR- EDM

One single tax free team. We’re simply in a cycle right now where the tax free teams are being well run. It’s as simple as that.

 

[Space umpire]

1.) 7 of the league teams are Canadian. They can’t do that. Tavares just tried and got sure for 15 million.

2.) it’s much more complicated than you make it seem. There is literally an article where Mike Grier. Brisebois and guentzel all admit is an advantage like 3 posts up. They say no state tax team platers take home more money. Not “accountants can fix it”.

3.) even if we didn’t just have direct statements from GMs and players. Why would no state tax players take less consistently? If it’s all the same. Why isn’t it the same?

It’s not all the same and most of what you compare is either blatant lying or extremely mislead by use of partial facts.

 

[Legion34]

It’s not all the same and most of what you compare is either blatant lying or extremely mislead by use of partial facts.

Nope. I have shown this plenty of times. Go through the top 5 contracts on each no state tax team. Show me one 14% aav

Now go through the star players on any high tax team. You will see a whole lot of them in Toronto. Van. NYR. LA. Chicago (Kane/toews) etc.

Show me one piece of evidence where a player or GM says that they have made the same take home in California as Florida. Just one.

There is literally an article with 2 GMs and a player Directly quoted right above this.


Show one.

 

[Space umpire]

you comparing Makar - Nurse salaries while at 2 completely different levels of their career but you ignore the factual comparison but it makes your claim not only wrong but it looks foolish.

 

[Space umpire]

For a more accurate totaling let’s try

Nurse years 1 - 3 = ELC
Makar years 1 - 3 = ELC

Nurse years 4 - 8 = $17,600,000.
Makar years 4 - 8 = $45,000,000

Nurse years 9 - 10 = 18,500,000
Makar years 9 - 10 = 18,000,000

 

[Space umpire]

1.) 7 of the league teams are Canadian. They can’t do that. Tavares just tried and got sure for 15 million.

2.) it’s much more complicated than you make it seem. There is literally an article where Mike Grier. Brisebois and guentzel all admit is an advantage like 3 posts up. They say no state tax team platers take home more money. Not “accountants can fix it”.

3.) even if we didn’t just have direct statements from GMs and players. Why would no state tax players take less consistently? If it’s all the same. Why isn’t it the same?

Actually what happened to Tavares was a correct ruling. He f***ed up. He already had a place in Toronto and he and the family spent a month or 2 every year on vacation (holiday if you prefer) will when he came back as a resident in mid July it changed the length of time in each place and Toronto his primary residence.

 

[Golden_Jet]

1.) 7 of the league teams are Canadian. They can’t do that. Tavares just tried and got sure for 15 million.

2.) it’s much more complicated than you make it seem. There is literally an article where Mike Grier. Brisebois and guentzel all admit is an advantage like 3 posts up. They say no state tax team platers take home more money. Not “accountants can fix it”.

3.) even if we didn’t just have direct statements from GMs and players. Why would no state tax players take less consistently? If it’s all the same. Why isn’t it the same?

Matthews does it every year, he’s top 3 in the league , in net take home pay because of SB and living in AZ.

It’s obvious you don’t understand the taxes, or you wouldn’t have mentioned JT’s screw up on residence and time in country.

 

[Legion34]

Matthews does it every year, he’s top 3 in the league , in net take home pay because of SB and living in AZ.

It’s obvious you don’t understand the taxes, or you wouldn’t have mentioned JT’s screw up on residence and time in country.

1.) you have no evidence that Matthews “does this every year”. You believe it.
But we don’t know that for sure. You have to prove you have greater financial ties to the us then Canada. The 6 months plus a day rule is only one part of it. Heck the 2 weeks he spent in Canada playing round one against a Canadian team might affect it. NHL accountants have said that it’s incredibly difficult to do long term and most players don’t get to claim residency

Show one article or piece of proof that Matthews does this. An example from a Mike Grier and JB was posted indicating the tax situation affects the money you pay ufas.

Show an article that quotes Matthews doing this. I will wait.

2.) no. This is not true. It is an example of how wrong amateur tax experts here are. As I have said for years. The Canadian government wants its money. They can argue for it. It is NOT just about the days in a country. It is about proving greater financial ties ties.

You think you know more than Brissons agency? Ok. Also. The CRA has gone after multiple athletes over the “solutions”
Everyone is sure are so easy. Like the “Allan Walsh special” RCAs. Talk to the blue jays about that.

Corson. Bautista just to name a few. All of them just screwed up residency?

It’s not a Tavares issue.

 

[T REX]

Man, this horse is so dead. Dead. I didn't see this thread and I am totally glad I didn't.

I'm sure there are so many new, fresh takes in here. Did not read, will not read.

Why? Let me guess...it's not FAIR! It's not fair!

Get better GM's and players. THAT is the solution. Suck it up, buttercup.

 

[Legion34]

Actually what happened to Tavares was a correct ruling. He f***ed up. He already had a place in Toronto and he and the family spent a month or 2 every year on vacation (holiday if you prefer) will when he came back as a resident in mid July it changed the length of time in each place and Toronto his primary residence.

Actually what happened to Tavares was a correct ruling. He f***ed up. He already had a place in Toronto and he and the family spent a month or 2 every year on vacation (holiday if you prefer) will when he came back as a resident in mid July it changed the length of time in each place and Toronto his primary residence.

It’s not just about length of time in each place. It is about greater financial ties.

You have to prove it. The other fun example people use it the RCAs and how that saves money.

Except the CRA is saying that Bautista and Donaldson didn’t do that correctly either.

I guess they should hire you.

 

[MK9]

It’s becoming a big problem that the NHL has to be worried about. The NHL’s smallest TV markets are able to spend in some cases 15%+ more than large market teams.

Take Panthers vs Rangers for example.

Between NY state tax and NY city tax, the rangers roster for the same exact salary takes home about 15% less than floridas roster.

1) will the nhl allow a “tax allowance” to make everyone have the same net effective ceiling?

2) is it politically palatable for states and cities like ny/nyc to exempt athletes from state and city income tax? IMO it’d be deeply popular from constituents to do so.

Nothing has changed since those teams came into their respective markets. Suddenly 'it's a big problem'. That's some serious sub-level, flawed logic right there. Copium to the nth degree and out of touch beyond tolerance.

 

[Golden_Jet]

1.) you have no evidence that Matthews “does this every year”. You believe it.
But we don’t know that for sure. You have to prove you have greater financial ties to the us then Canada. The 6 months plus a day rule is only one part of it. Heck the 2 weeks he spent in Canada playing round one against a Canadian team might affect it. NHL accountants have said that it’s incredibly difficult to do long term and most players don’t get to claim residency

Show one article or piece of proof that Matthews does this. An example from a Mike Grier and JB was posted indicating the tax situation affects the money you pay ufas.

Show an article that quotes Matthews doing this. I will wait.

2.) no. This is not true. It is an example of how wrong amateur tax experts here are. As I have said for years. The Canadian government wants its money. They can argue for it. It is NOT just about the days in a country. It is about proving greater financial ties ties.

You think you know more than Brissons agency? Ok. Also. The CRA has gone after multiple athletes over the “solutions”
Everyone is sure are so easy. Like the “Allan Walsh special” RCAs. Talk to the blue jays about that.

Corson. Bautista just to name a few. All of them just screwed up residency?

It’s not a Tavares issue.

It’s crazy [mod], on this topic, that numerous posters keep mentioning where you get things wrong.

The cherry picking is even funnier.

 

[Legion34]

Nothing has changed since those teams came into their respective markets. Suddenly 'it's a big problem'.

View attachment 1044432

No. This is wrong.

The NHL did change. It outlawed back diving contracts (correctly) which allowed bigger market teams to cheat.
Once those aged out this was the only advantage left.

 

[Legion34]

It’s crazy how wrong you can be, all the time.

NHL agents. GMs players. Accountants have all said that the no state teams have an advantage and get to sign players for less. This is undisputed. One agent Allan Walsh said you can use RCAs to make up the difference. He had his accountant on his podcast and he basically skirted the issue.

Since that time multiple athletes have been brought to court by the CRA. Which doesn’t even affect the American markets.

2.) it is undisputable that no state tax teams consistently sign their players for less than high state tax team

3.) since the outlawing and aging out of back diving contracts. No state tax teams have been over represented in presidents trophy. Cup finalists and winners. This is undisputed

You have not provided a single quote. Or peice of evidence.

The only arguments are baseless assertions about players, hypothetical arguments about taxes with NO quotes or articles to back your claims.

 

[LaffyTaffy13]

Nothing has changed since those teams came into their respective markets. Suddenly 'it's a big problem'. That's some serious sub-level, flawed logic right there. Copium to the nth degree and out of touch beyond tolerance.

View attachment 1044432

Contract structure has changed big time because there is a lot of talk of this leading to players like floridas top guys having around 90% of their contract in signing bonus’s which again are not subject to state or city taxes like they would be in NY