What is the solution to balancing the salary cap with no tax states?

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Ah the semi-annual "My team sucks because of taxes" thread.


Just as embarrassing as the last one.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Because even if someone's home insurance was 100k a year, which we both know it wouldn't be, that still doesn't add up to the however many % on 8-10million.

NHL average salary is about $3.5million. Let's say you play in a state/Province where you pay 10%.

That's roughly $175K in taxes per year. While that's certainly something it's become overblown.

I would argue that the weather, anonymity and low pressure (especially for players with young families) is more important than that $175K is to people who're literally mutli-millionaires.

 

[BCNate]

There are a bunch of different advantages and disadvantages when comparing across 32 markets. Are we going to create handicaps to try and correct for each one now?

100% this. People need to stop whining about something that makes up such a little piece of the equation.

 

[TrufleShufle]

NHL average salary is about $3.5million. Let's say you play in a state/Province where you pay 10%.

That's roughly $175K in taxes per year. While that's certainly something it's become overblown.

Yea, but that's on the low side, and I'll take overblown but it's the people who pretend it's non existent are the ones who get to me.

Is it a problem that needs fixing? Ehh, if there is an easy solution that doesn't cause other problems, sure. If not, no it's fine.

Just like having the best player in the league on your team doesn't guarantee you the cup, but can not be denied an "advantage," low tax is also an advantage. You still have to do the work with that advantage, there are other place that have other advantages that you don't.

It's fine to recognize something and not think it's a massive problem. People are oddly afraid to admit something exists if they don't see a solution or don't think its an automatic cause of another thing.

 

[Drytoast]

It’s becoming a big problem that the NHL has to be worried about. The NHL’s smallest TV markets are able to spend in some cases 15%+ more than large market teams.

Take Panthers vs Rangers for example.

Between NY state tax and NY city tax, the rangers roster for the same exact salary takes home about 15% less than floridas roster.

1) will the nhl allow a “tax allowance” to make everyone have the same net effective ceiling?

2) is it politically palatable for states and cities like ny/nyc to exempt athletes from state and city income tax? IMO it’d be deeply popular from constituents to do so.

If you calculate the cap hit based off of TAKE HOME after taxes...not before taxes. This would allow more salary cap for high taxed regions and less cap for no tax regions.

This could be calculated and set per season based off of any government policy change.

Easy peezy, lemon squeezy.

 

[Bonin21]

Because even if someone's home insurance was 100k a year, which we both know it wouldn't be, that still doesn't add up to the however many % on 8-10million.

Facts don't appear to be a part of the argument.

 

[oconnor9sean]

There are a bunch of different advantages and disadvantages when comparing across 32 markets. Are we going to create handicaps to try and correct for each one now?

Not to mention the obvious major flaw in writing an unmodifiable CBA for a sports league to react to real-world fiscal policy lmao

 

[Troy McClure]

 

[avocadosmoothie]

In the 14 seasons between 06-07 and 18-19, teams from states WITH income taxes won, quite literally, 100% of the Stanley Cups, and 10/14 of the runners-up were also from those states. Where was the unfair game-breaking advantage then?

Additionally, in that stretch, Dallas, Florida, Nashville and Tampa all had (varying in length) periods of being absolute tire fire organizations. In Dallas' case, Tom Gaglardi bought the team, hired Jim Nill and they slowly rebuilt the franchise in all aspects into what they are today.

Fire your GM or protest your ownership/management group. They're why your organization sucks - not a tax break in another state.

lets say that two teams need a roster strength of 10 to win the cup.

the first team has none of the advantages and are able to build a 9.5 on their own merit.

the second team has all the advantages and are able to build a 9.5 on their own merit. but due to their advantages, the strength of their roster is pushed to a 10.

it's not as if having those advantages gifts you a 9.5. it's simply an unfair advantage that pushes you over the top. florida sucked for 20 years, because they sucked. they were a 5 or below. advantages do nothing for you in this scenario

 

[Legion34]

There are a bunch of different advantages and disadvantages when comparing across 32 markets. Are we going to create handicaps to try and correct for each one now?

No. This is a misunderstanding. The NHL chose to correct for the salary advantage in big market teams. They further instituted parity.

They chose to make a cap and make all teams spend equally. Now they have to make it fair.

If they chose to make a media cap. Make it fair. That’s it.

 

[Golden_Jet]

No. This is a misunderstanding. The NHL chose to correct for the salary advantage in big market teams. They further instituted parity.

They chose to make a cap and make all teams spend equally. Now they have to make it fair.

If they chose to make a media cap. Make it fair. That’s it.

The only salary disadvantage is CDN teams pay 35-40% more in salaries due to the dollar. That’s way more than any tax disadvantage, but that life.

Teams are cyclical, bad become good and vica versa.

 

[JaegerDice]

I’ve had a rough day, so I’m going to put the niceties aside.

If you are an NHL fan complaining about taxes, you are a loser fan of a loser team.

Don’t let your loser team turn you into a loser too.

 

[Legion34]

The only salary disadvantage is CDN teams pay 35-40% more in salaries due to the dollar. That’s way more than any tax disadvantage, but that life.

Teams are cyclical, bad become good and vica versa.

Except there is no way at any point ever the Canadian players are spending all of or even most of their large salaries in Canada.

How much to do think they are spending on groceries?
Cars are cheaper In the states. You also pay 13% tax on everything. It’s silly

They are investing and saving for the next 50 years. They don’t live paycheck to paycheck. .

Again. Why do you ignore what nhl players agents gms and accountants say?

 

[Voight]

FYI Washington State does not have a state level income tax yet the Kraken haven't really been a destination for free agents.

Yes, they did sign Montour and Stephenson but thats because they overpaid, not because they dont have a state income tax.

Marchessault left another no income tax state to sign with a team based in one (meaning their new team is located in a state with no income tax), because they offered him more money, same with Stamkos.

 

[Voight]

Seems a common argument on here is NHL teams like Florida benefit from no state income tax, so if this is true why aren't the Heat, Magic, Grizzlies mopping up the NBA? Marlins and Rays in MLB? Dolphins, Bucs, Titans, Raiders, in NFL?

It's like when people complain about the Dodgers singing all kinds of free agents. California has the highest taxes in the nation which hasn't stopped the Dodgers from signing top free agents... why? Because the Dodgers are the best run franchise in Major League Baseball. Marlins have the benefit of being in a no income tax state and being located in a "destination city" yet they can't sign anybody... why? Because they suck and have been mismanaged for most of their history.

 

[Space umpire]

Doughty and Karlsson got more because they were better players. Funny you bring up Nurse but fail to mention he’s paid MORE than Makar… I wonder why?

Bobrovsky was literally the highest paid active NHL goalie

Tyler Seguin makes 9.850M

More than Aho at 9.5M

There are so many flaws to what you’re saying.

Nurse was thought to be a Developing top pair D.
AND was on the brink of UFA status.

In mostly a flat cap era Makar’s 1st 4 years of his current (career years 4-5-6-7)about 16 million more than Nurse did in his (4-5-6-7).
Makar has become a #1 D. I’m sure when this deal (already paying pretty good) is done Cale is gonna get PAID.

 

[Lieutenant Bookman]

No. This is a misunderstanding. The NHL chose to correct for the salary advantage in big market teams. They further instituted parity.

They chose to make a cap and make all teams spend equally. Now they have to make it fair.

If they chose to make a media cap. Make it fair. That’s it.

Ya I understand the basis of what people are proposing, it’s just ridiculous because it’s only a fraction of the story. I’m a Kraken fan. We play in one of these “no tax” states. But, unlike the other “no tax” locations, the weather during hockey season sucks. So, we are at a major disadvantage relative to Florida, Las Vegas, Texas, etc in being attractive to players because of it. How does the NHL correct for this disadvantage we have in weather to make it more fair for us?

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Call your congressmen to lower your state taxes.

 

[cowboy82nd]

No. This is a misunderstanding. The NHL chose to correct for the salary advantage in big market teams. They further instituted parity.

They chose to make a cap and make all teams spend equally. Now they have to make it fair.

If they chose to make a media cap. Make it fair. That’s it.

The NHL choose a cap for cost control, not for all teams to spend equally. Toronto, for example, can spend more money on coaches, trainers, scouts, you name it, then say Florida.

And what is a media cap?

 

[Ignatius]

"2) is it politically palatable for states and cities like ny/nyc to exempt athletes from state and city income tax? IMO it’d be deeply popular from constituents to do so."

f*** no. If I have to pay my taxes, making a hell of a lot less money, the poor little millionaires can pay theirs too.

The solution is to lower or eliminate taxes for everyone not make it higher for one group versus another. The notion of "paying your fair share" is nonsense that was sold to generations like the boomers as feel good slop.

 

[danktopshelf]

FYI Washington State does not have a state level income tax yet the Kraken haven't really been a destination for free agents.

Yes, they did sign Montour and Stephenson but thats because they overpaid, not because they dont have a state income tax.

Marchessault left another no income tax state to sign with a team based in one, because they offered him more money, same with Stamkos.

Marchessault and Stamkos both signed with a team without state income tax, Nashville. Tennessee has no state income tax.

 

[PistolPete]

It's like when people complain about the Dodgers singing all kinds of free agents. California has the highest taxes in the nation which hasn't stopped the Dodgers from signing top free agents... why? Because the Dodgers are the best run franchise in Major League Baseball. Marlins have the benefit of being in a no income tax state and being located in a "destination city" yet they can't sign anybody... why? Because they suck and have been mismanaged for most of their history.

Same with the Yankees.

Just ridiculous to me to hold up just one single thing as the entire explanation for a team's success.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Except there is no way at any point ever the Canadian players are spending all of or even most of their large salaries in Canada.

How much to do think they are spending on groceries?
Cars are cheaper In the states. You also pay 13% tax on everything. It’s silly

They are investing and saving for the next 50 years. They don’t live paycheck to paycheck. .

Again. Why do you ignore what nhl players agents gms and accountants say?

I didn’t mention players, said teams.
But why do fans care where players spend their money lol. They paid their taxes.

The only salary disadvantage is CDN teams pay 35-40% more in salaries due to the dollar.

 

[Voight]

Marchessault and Stamkos both signed with a team without state income tax, Nashville. Tennessee has no state income tax.

Marchessault left another no income tax state to sign with a team based in one

Thats exactly what I said (admittedly I worded it weirdly)

 

[Mattilaus]

Ya I understand the basis of what people are proposing, it’s just ridiculous because it’s only a fraction of the story. I’m a Kraken fan. We play in one of these “no tax” states. But, unlike the other “no tax” locations, the weather during hockey season sucks. So, we are at a major disadvantage relative to Florida, Las Vegas, Texas, etc in being attractive to players because of it. How does the NHL correct for this disadvantage we have in weather to make it more fair for us?

No, the league won't try to balance on the basis of weather because they never have. The league has taken the stance they won't try to balance that. The league HAS taken a stance that they will try to balance each teams spending advantages or disadvantages by implementing the cap.

The problem is the league took an advantage away from markets like Toronto by implementing the cap and gave advantages to tax free locations. It can be seen as putting their finger on the scale as opposed to just not touching a problem all together like climate.

This isn't my stance, just my understanding of the argument.