What is the solution to balancing the salary cap with no tax states?

[Legion34]

It's not an advantage. It's simply how the states operate and is completely unrelated to hockey until some angry people not living in those states started crying.

An advantage implies these teams are allowed something that makes them different as set up by the league. That's just not the case.

And it's not incorrect. I don't give a damn that there are some salty players saying that, and I"d venture to guess they are all from Canada. Don't whine about places where taxes are better, focus on changing where you live if it's such a problem.

Yes it is. The league set up a cap system. Which arbitrarily makes bigger teams be unable to spend more so tax advantages are massive.

The real answer would be. If your team can’t compete with big market teams. Move it to somewhere it can.

The small Market teams cried foul because they couldn’t compete. Now they do. And they don’t want to even out the advantages. It’s silly.

 

[Fatass]

Respect in the handshake line time.

 

[Fatass]

The BOD needs to calm down behind the bench. He’s not helping his club be behind like he’s crazy. He’s not playing anymore and is no longer in the battle. Relax Rod and accept you’re the coach.

 

[ClydeLee]

Umm yes they did.
They signed for 11-12%

High tax markets sign for 14 on average.

Seriously. Take 10 minutes. To through the cap wages page or whatever people use now.

You are wrong.

No state tax market stars sign for generally. About 10.5-12.25%

High state tax ufas sign for 13.5-14.5.

It’s clear. Just go look. All the contracts are there.

Barkov signed for 10 after Panarin signed for 11.6. Tavares signed for 11. Kane and Toews got 10.5.

Josi signed for 9. He got paid less than karlson and doughty who got 11.

Frig he is paid less than Darnell nurse.

You are wrong. The math doesn’t lie

Josi had won what when he signed his extension to start the 2019 year? Why should he have earned what Doughty or Karrlson got? In what reasonable argument? They got to a final but didnt win, he didnt have any Norris finishes, he wasn't commanding that price.

Take the time to apply other lines of thought. Players who have won, typically use that and earn more. And Nurse signed a couple years layer... also a move I know nobody said, this is a good signing. Terrible management doing something terrible isn't a tax issue.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Umm yes they did.
They signed for 11-12%

High tax markets sign for 14 on average.

Seriously. Take 10 minutes. To through the cap wages page or whatever people use now.

You are wrong.

No state tax market stars sign for generally. About 10.5-12.25%

High state tax ufas sign for 13.5-14.5.

It’s clear. Just go look. All the contracts are there.

Barkov signed for 10 after Panarin signed for 11.6. Tavares signed for 11. Kane and Toews got 10.5.

Josi signed for 9. He got paid less than karlson and doughty who got 11.

Frig he is paid less than Darnell nurse.

You are wrong. The math doesn’t lie

Doughty and Karlsson got more because they were better players. Funny you bring up Nurse but fail to mention he’s paid MORE than Makar… I wonder why?

Bobrovsky was literally the highest paid active NHL goalie

Tyler Seguin makes 9.850M

More than Aho at 9.5M

There are so many flaws to what you’re saying.

 

[crowi]

Trash34 is always one of these points. Sadly he doesn't get enough points to even get to ECF. Shades of Danault for $13.25M. f***ing bum.

 

[BB79]

People who live in states with no personal income tax get taxed in other ways. I live in a state with a very low state income tax but our overall tax burden is greater than that of Massachusetts, which is regarded as a state with high taxes.

Regarded? As a resident I can confirm, there's a reason we're called Taxachusetts. The place sucks.

 

[Legion34]

Doughty and Karlsson got more because they were better players. Funny you bring up Nurse but fail to mention he’s paid MORE than Makar… I wonder why?

Bobrovsky was literally the highest paid active NHL goalie

Tyler Seguin makes 9.850M

More than Aho at 9.5M

There are so many flaws to what you’re saying.

Sweet Jesus. Are they better than Hedman? Kucherov? Nurse signed for 8. Makar signed for 6. Not the same. This has been established for years.

Look at the contracts and the AAV % of players who signed in no state tax markets.

Look at stamkos. Kucherov. Hedman. Barkov. Tkachuk. Reinhart. Josi. Saros Forsling. Bobrovsky.

Just off the top of my head. There are more.

Then look at High tax markets. Tavares. Price. Doughty. Panarin. Kopitar. Karlson. Petterson. Kane. Toews.

Find one no state tax markets contract that was 14% aav as a star ufa.

NHL agents/gms/accoutants/players all admit it.

You are just deciding that they are wrong ? That they don’t actually take less. Even though they do? And that this isn’t the reason. Even though they say it is?

Bold take

 

[Kaners PPGs]

You're obviously looking for excuses, and clearly I'm able to use my head because I'm not complaining about something so absurd.

Your insult is noted, though quite baseless. Your lack of critical thinking skills is hardly my problem and your need to utilize insults just reinforces you lack said skills.

I'm OBVIOUSLY not looking for anything. If you cannot look at contracts signed in tax-free states versus contracts signed in highly taxed states/provinces and notice the difference then you're ignoring the facts. Yes, other factors play a role but it's inherently unfair that certain teams play in a location that allow their players to receive a higher percentage of their contract when the league has a hard salary cap.

 

[Space umpire]

Incorrect. Arizona has state income tax. You must not be from here.

My apologies, the tax is 2.5% (lowest in the US of states with a tax.).
How does it compare to the tax rate in Toronto, Ontario?

 

[oconnor9sean]

In the 14 seasons between 06-07 and 18-19, teams from states WITH income taxes won, quite literally, 100% of the Stanley Cups, and 10/14 of the runners-up were also from those states. Where was the unfair game-breaking advantage then?

Additionally, in that stretch, Dallas, Florida, Nashville and Tampa all had (varying in length) periods of being absolute tire fire organizations. In Dallas' case, Tom Gaglardi bought the team, hired Jim Nill and they slowly rebuilt the franchise in all aspects into what they are today.

Fire your GM or protest your ownership/management group. They're why your organization sucks - not a tax break in another state.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sweet Jesus. Are they better than Hedman? Kucherov? Nurse signed for 8. Makar signed for 6. Not the same. This has been established for years.

Look at the contracts and the AAV % of players who signed in no state tax markets.

Look at stamkos. Kucherov. Hedman. Barkov. Tkachuk. Reinhart. Josi. Saros Forsling. Bobrovsky.

Just off the top of my head. There are more.

Then look at High tax markets. Tavares. Price. Doughty. Panarin. Kopitar. Karlson. Petterson. Kane. Toews.

Find one no state tax markets contract that was 14% aav as a star ufa.

NHL agents/gms/accoutants/players all admit it.

You are just deciding that they are wrong ? That they don’t actually take less. Even though they do? And that this isn’t the reason. Even though they say it is?

Bold take

Give it up, how many 14%+ salaries are there a handful or so out of 750 players.

All your doing is ignoring all the other posters replies, and coming back with, ya buts.

It’s only about give the leafs more money to spend,

 

[Legion34]

Give it up, how many 14%+ salaries are there a handful or so out of 750 players.

All your doing is ignoring all the other posters replies, and coming back with, ya buts.

It’s only about give the leafs more money to spend,

No. I am responding with the clear and undeniable fact that no state tax teams have a clear advantage in being able to sign star players for less. And that agents, GMs, coaches, players all freely admit that they sign for less.

People are trying to deny math and the actual statements of professionals in the field. It’s madness.

This also has led to disproportionate representation of 6 teams in the finals and winning cups.

This is undeniable. It is an advantage. Other people are making irrelevant claims that there are other reasons why people sign for less. And there are other reasons for success.

Ok. NYR and Toronto had 1 cup in 50 years. Tampa had 1 too. So I guess the lack of salary cap wasn’t an advantage.


If it’s not an advantage. Then why wouldn’t you change it. What would it matter.

 

[ScaredStreit]

The problem is only looking at the income tax in a vacuum. Once we factor that in, why not home insurance? Sure Florida has no state income tax however home insurance is more than 3 times the national average and (iirc) is the highest in the nation as well.

 

[ScaredStreit]

No. I am responding with the clear and undeniable fact that no state tax teams have a clear advantage in being able to sign star players for less. And that agents, GMs, coaches, players all freely admit that they sign for less.

People are trying to deny math and the actual statements of professionals in the field. It’s madness.

This also has led to disproportionate representation of 6 teams in the finals and winning cups.

This is undeniable. It is an advantage. Other people are making irrelevant claims that there are other reasons why people sign for less. And there are other reasons for success.

Ok. NYR and Toronto had 1 cup in 50 years. Tampa had 1 too. So I guess the lack of salary cap wasn’t an advantage.


If it’s not an advantage. Then why wouldn’t you change it. What would it matter.

Why only focus specifically on income tax and ignore other considerations such as home insurance which Florida is the highest in the US in?

 

[M88K]

Why only focus specifically on income tax and ignore other considerations such as home insurance which Florida is the highest in the US in?

Because it's the talking point of the month.

Former executives have said "we had to offer 1-2m more than no tax teams..." and other stupid shit.
Nashville has sucked pretty much their entire existence . Dallas, Tampa and Florida all had periods where they were garbage. Never a peep about taxes then. Those teams after years of failures get some success and it must be taxes.

 

[Bonin21]

The problem is only looking at the income tax in a vacuum. Once we factor that in, why not home insurance? Sure Florida has no state income tax however home insurance is more than 3 times the national average and (iirc) is the highest in the nation as well.

Are you serious? How much "extra" are they paying in home insurance on a 5MM home in Florida per year? Then compare that to the hundreds of thousands extra they're getting of their income.

 

[Lieutenant Bookman]

There are a bunch of different advantages and disadvantages when comparing across 32 markets. Are we going to create handicaps to try and correct for each one now?

 

[danktopshelf]

The state of Florida is also trying to reduce/ban property taxes. The constitutional amendment to increase homestead exemption passed in 24 election.

Florida Probably Getting Rid of Property Tax

In terms of states where you can keep more of your money, it doesn't get better than Florida. Tennessee and Texas are also really good. I'd rank no tax states 1. Florida 2. Tennessee 3. Texas. Texas the worst of the best because of high property taxes to support wasteful stadiums for some scrub public high school that the truly affluent wouldn't utilize for their kids.

 

[westc2]

Keep it how it is....it's a business. If your team can't attract free agents because of a minor difference in state income tax, it's the owner's problem. Relocate the team if you have to.

 

[Torontonian]

Love to see a soft cap. Teams/owners pay the price for going above the cap, helps these other teams just pay more money to players to offset the money they would save from playing in tax-free states.

 

[Rebels57]

Considering the last 6 Eastern Conference Champs have been the 2 teams from Florida, there might just be something to the Florida tax advantage.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Are you serious? How much "extra" are they paying in home insurance on a 5MM home in Florida per year? Then compare that to the hundreds of thousands extra they're getting of their income.

They don't earn hundreds of thousands extra in income. They still pay income tax on every away game (that's not a income tax free state). But again why the focus on income tax instead of the various other expenses players have to make? Usually it's fans from markets cherry picking which aspects they want to look at if it benefits their team.

Specifically the Florida teams is not just income tax. There's the weather, low pressure environment, living in relative anonymity, etc.

Las Vegas is more appealing for young players as opposed to say Winnipeg (no offense to people from Winnipeg). Should the NHL step in and attempt to level that playing field?

 

[TrufleShufle]

Why only focus specifically on income tax and ignore other considerations such as home insurance which Florida is the highest in the US in?

Because even if someone's home insurance was 100k a year, which we both know it wouldn't be, that still doesn't add up to the however many % on 8-10million.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Considering the last 6 Eastern Conference Champs have been the 2 teams from Florida, there might just be something to the Florida tax advantage.

From 06 (first year of salary cap) to 2021 the Panthers won exactly 0 playoff series. That's 16 seasons.