What is the solution to balancing the salary cap with no tax states?

[Legion34]

The solution is other states and countries should lower their taxes lol

No thr NHL imposed arbitrary rules on free market companies operating internationally. They made the imposition. They have to make it fair.

 

[Voight]

No it’s not. It’s not a cycle. The rules tangibly changed in 2013-2014 when the back diving contracts were outlawed. Almost immediately after no state tax teams had a massive advantage and all of them
At the exact same time started to get players to sign for less. That’s not a cycle.

Again, nobody was signing with these teams when they weren't very good/not making deep playoff runs. Even after 2014.

 

[Reality Czech]

No thr NHL imposed arbitrary rules on free market companies operating internationally. They made the imposition. They have to make it fair.

No they don't. How are the rules "arbitrary?" If liberals states and Canada want to tax their citizens more then they have to deal with the consequences. Plenty of non-athletes prefer to live in low/no-tax states for similar reasons.

 

[Legion34]

Again, nobody was signing with these teams when they weren't very good/not making deep playoff runs. Even after 2014.

? Define very good and deep runs? What deep run had Florida been on when bob signed


Half the league literally just signed in Nashville and Seattle last year. Were they very good/making deep runs?

Tampa was out in the first round the last 2 years. Guentzel left a “better team”.

 

[Legion34]

No they don't. How are the rules "arbitrary?" If liberals states and Canada want to tax their citizens more then they have to deal with the consequences. Plenty of non-athletes prefer to live in low/no-tax states for similar reasons.

No. The NHL is making the salary cap restrictions and forcing parity.

Not the tax system.

The NHL is limiting the leafs/rangers to spend like Columbus

 

[Reality Czech]

? Define very good and deep runs? What deep run had Florida been on when bob signed


Half the league literally just signed in Nashville and Seattle last year. Were they very good/making deep runs?

Tampa was out in the first round the last 2 years. Guentzel left a “better team”.

Is it really so surprising to you that many players prefer to play and live in Southern US states rather than Canadian or other markets? I bet taxes are only one of many reasons they prefer to be there, and as others have pointed out the difference is likely canceled out by higher property/sales/etc. taxes.

Such a silly debate lol

 

[Fatass]

No. The NHL is making the salary cap restrictions and forcing parity.

Not the tax system.

The NHL is limiting the leafs/rangers to spend like Columbus

Imo we will see this whole “no tax” argument go away as the cap rises to 110+
Clubs with lots of income (Leafs/Rangers) will spend to the max. Clubs with less will be at the cap floor.

 

[Legion34]

Is it really so surprising to you that many players prefer to play and live in Southern US states rather than Canadian or other markets? I bet taxes are only one of many reasons they prefer to be there, and as others have pointed out the difference is likely canceled out by higher property/sales/etc. taxes.

Such a silly debate lol

Then why do they consistently take less?

You understand it is clear and demonstrated that NHL players take less aav in no state tax markets and they openly and repeatedly admit that that is the reason?

What are you possibly arguing. That NHl players don’t take less In low state tax markets? The math doesn’t lie.

Are you arguing that they lie? That Seattle lifestyle and weather is similar to Florida? Not Vancouver?

This makes no sense.

 

[Legion34]

Imo we will see this whole “no tax” argument go away as the cap rises to 110+
Clubs with lots of income (Leafs/Rangers) will spend to the max. Clubs with less will be at the cap floor.

It might…. Sure. But that doesn’t change the unfair system

 

[Fatass]

Is it really so surprising to you that many players prefer to play and live in Southern US states rather than Canadian or other markets? I bet taxes are only one of many reasons they prefer to be there, and as others have pointed out the difference is likely canceled out by higher property/sales/etc. taxes.

Such a silly debate lol

Matt Tkatchuk said after the Leafs lost, that it’s the pressure of a Canadian market that is a big issue. Imo he’s talking about the anonymity players have in the southern us markets. They leave their job at the rink. It seems, from his comments, that’s why some players don’t want to be up here.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I put this idea out there in 2005 about trading cap space and I think this still holds some merit as a mechanism for softening up the cap to introduce more flexibility.

Any team that doesn't spend to the cap should be able to sell or trade its unused cap space as a form of currency and revenue sharing mechanism. Maybe it's a dollar for dollar buy or maybe it's picks and prospects.

It basically keeps the HRR within the approved parameters and any team that feels hard done by some other economic factor can spend a little bit more. Maybe you cap the luxury spending, maybe you don't.

That just raises escrow.

 

[Legion34]

Matt Tkatchuk said after the Leafs lost, that it’s the pressure of a Canadian market that is a big issue. Imo he’s talking about the anonymity players have in the southern us markets. They leave their job at the rink. It seems, from his comments, that’s why some players don’t want to be up here.

That has nothing to do with why he took less aav in Florida.

These are completely different things that have nothing to do with each other.

There are many reasons why players might not want to live/work/play in Canada.

That doesn’t explain why they sign for less in Florida then they do in SJ/LA

 

[Fatass]

Then why do they consistently take less?

You understand it is clear and demonstrated that NHL players take less aav in no state tax markets and they openly and repeatedly admit that that is the reason?

What are you possibly arguing. That NHl players don’t take less In low state tax markets? The math doesn’t lie.

Are you arguing that they lie? That Seattle lifestyle and weather is similar to Florida? Not Vancouver?

This makes no sense.

What did soon to be three time Vézina winner sign for in Winnipeg when he could have gone south? What’s goalie Bob getting in no state tax Florida? Imo taxes do play a role in players choices of location as UFAs and how much they sign for when getting their next contracts. But is only one of many reasons.

 

[Legion34]

That just raise escrow.

Not necessarily. The NHl can decide owner payments can be outside of hrr just like expansion fees

 

[Legion34]

What did soon to be three time Vézina winner sign for in Winnipeg when he could have gone south? What’s goalie Bob getting in no state tax Florida? Imo taxes do play a role in players choices of location as UFAs and how much they sign for when getting their next contracts. But is only one of many reasons.

Comparing pandemic contracts to non pandemic contracts isn’t really fair.

It’s probably better to look at why Igor got 14% aav with one Vézina and bob got 12% with 2

 

[a mangy Meowth]

One solution would be for you to educate yourself so that you don't believe such silly things, OP

Your understanding of the tax system in the US seems extremely lacking if you think it's a 15% difference

 

[RiverbottomChuck]

That has nothing to do with why he took less aav in Florida.

These are completely different things that have nothing to do with each other.

There are many reasons why players might not want to live/work/play in Canada.

That doesn’t explain why they sign for less in Florida then they do in SJ/LA

The only similarities between Cali and Florida are the sun and celebrities. I could list about 50 reasons someone would prefer Broward over the bay area.

 

[Reality Czech]

Then why do they consistently take less?

You understand it is clear and demonstrated that NHL players take less aav in no state tax markets and they openly and repeatedly admit that that is the reason?

What are you possibly arguing. That NHl players don’t take less In low state tax markets? The math doesn’t lie.

Are you arguing that they lie? That Seattle lifestyle and weather is similar to Florida? Not Vancouver?

This makes no sense.

Is it one of the reasons? Perhaps, but is it the ONLY reason? Doubtful. If the tax rates were exactly the same, I bet Florida, Vegas and Texas would still be high on the list of desirable markets. And the fact that these teams are contenders makes them even more desirable as others have pointed out.

But regardless, I don't see why the NHL needs to change its rules to accommodate political decisions that each state and country makes on their own. But taxes aren't the only reason Canadian markets are less desirable, the obsessed fans and media are partly to blame too along with the cold, dark winters and lack of anonymity.

 

[Fatass]

Comparing pandemic contracts to non pandemic contracts isn’t really fair.

It’s probably better to look at why Igor got 14% aav with one Vézina and bob got 12% with 2

What’s Helley’s % of cap? Again no state tax is only part of a players choice. Many other factors come into play.

 

[StrangeVision]

? Define very good and deep runs? What deep run had Florida been on when bob signed


Half the league literally just signed in Nashville and Seattle last year. Were they very good/making deep runs?

Tampa was out in the first round the last 2 years. Guentzel left a “better team”.

Bob signed for $10M, the second most expensive goalie contract in the league behind Carey Price.

 

[Voight]

? Define very good and deep runs? What deep run had Florida been on when bob signed


Half the league literally just signed in Nashville and Seattle last year. Were they very good/making deep runs?

Tampa was out in the first round the last 2 years. Guentzel left a “better team”.

Had Tampa not recently won two cups and made a third finals, I really dont think Guentzel would've signed there.

Florida offered Bob the most money, thats why he signed there. At the time, Carey Price was the only goalie making over ten million dollars. & FWIW, by 2019 (when Bob signed with them) the Panthers core had matured and everyone knew they were going to be playoff contenders going forward. They hadn't made any deep runs but they certainly had an enviable core with Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad etc.

RE Bolded... Nashville and Seattle offered said players more money than the other teams, and honestly all five of those contracts were widely panned at the time.

Does Brad Marchand tell Boston he will only waive his NTC for Florida had the Panthers been first round losers the last two years? Probably not. However, they were coming off a championship and back to back finals so understandably he wanted to play there.

In 2010 Brad Richards left the Stars for the Rangers, going from a no income tax state to one of the highest taxing states. Why? because the Stars weren't very good and the Rangers were the better team at the time.

 

[Stephen]

That just raises escrow.

Sometimes, who cares about Bettman and his system?

 

[Legion34]

Had Tampa not recently won two cups and made a third finals, I really dont think Guentzel would've signed there.

Florida offered Bob the most money, thats why he signed there. At the time, Carey Price was the only goalie making over ten million dollars. & FWIW, by 2019 (when Bob signed with them) the Panthers core had matured and everyone knew they were going to be playoff contenders going forward. They hadn't made any deep runs but they certainly had an enviable core with Barkov, Huberdeau, Ekblad etc.

RE Bolded... Nashville and Seattle offered said players more money than the other teams, and honestly all five of those contracts were widely panned at the time.

Does Brad Marchand tell Boston he will only waive his NTC for Florida had the Panthers been first round losers the last two years? Probably not. However, they were coming off a championship and back to back finals so understandably he wanted to play there.

In 2010 Brad Richards left the Stars for the Rangers, going from a no income tax state to one of the highest taxing states. Why? because the Stars weren't very good and the Rangers were the better team at the time.

1.) The rangers gave Richard’s the biggest contract in NHL history by AAV right?
It’s not that they don’t sign players. 20% of the league can sign in no state tax markets they signed for less if NYR is so popular why do they not get discounts? If NYR is so popular why why do Panarin and Igor sign for 14%. If there are so many other factors. Why does it always end up that high tax teams sign star (not superstars like mcdavid) for 13.5-14.5% of the cap. And stars in no state tax markets always sign for 11-12?

Why is it so consistent?

2.) guentzel signed for 9 million. 10% of the salary cap. He could have signed other places. Literally all of the top ufas last year signed in no state tax markets that’s probably not going to be the case this year. There are only so many spots but it’s a heck of a trend

3.) you saying those contracts were “widely panned” does not make it true.

4.) of course plenty of players want to play on winning teams. They did in 2014 too. Kane/toews/kopitar/doughty/karlson/price/tavares etc. all wanted to as well. Why did they all take 14% aav?

Find a single star player at any time who signed in their prime for 14% aav in a no state tax market. Just one.
There aren’t any.

find a star ufa who signed in a high tax market for 11% in their ufa years.

There aren’t any.

Why?

 

[Legion34]

The only similarities between Cali and Florida are the sun and celebrities. I could list about 50 reasons someone would prefer Broward over the bay area.

Sure. But people are citing weather. There is no reason listed that would make people sign for less in la vs Florida.

LA was a cup winner too. They didn’t get discounts.

 

[Legion34]

Bob signed for $10M, the second most expensive goalie contract in the league behind Carey Price.

His aav was not 14% it was 12.27. . Which is what price got.

Even with the goalie market changing. Igor just set the goalie record in NYR. It’s a popular place. Why didn’t he get less?