What is McDavid's Peak (so far)

[slapKing]

during the last number of seasons, McDavid's level of play has been crazy. but, which stretch of hockey would you consider McDavid to be at his very best?

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[tabness]

most impressed I was with his play was in the 2022 playoffs especially the last three games against LA and the first three games against Calgary which were deserving of all the hype he gets as one of the absolutely best ever, that playoffs his stats looked less than his play, in all the other examples I feel the stats flatter his play

everything else I feel has been pretty overhyped

2023 was a powerplay merchant year and despite his vast lead over everyone that year in stats he couldn't muster even a slim lead in the 5v5 category and the Kucherov and MacKinnon both hit 140 the next year (with less powerplay reliance) although this year he really showed he could score goals a bunch in different ways than the usual chip shot so that was impressive

2024 playoffs was up and down it took him until the Dallas series to be the clear best player on his team and then the Florida series was again up and down

2021 is definitely last, covid asterix north division short year where like he tore up a couple teams playing them so often (so for example Toronto didn't have too much trouble against him) and he sucked in the playoffs vs the Jets

 

[Arthur Morgan]

its too hard to say, his totals have been rising almost every year. he will prob have a down year compared to like last year but next year he very well could break it. look at JT Miller guy broke out in a big way around like age 30. there's no reason to think we have seen the best of McDavid but I would assume the 150+ point season is the one

 

[Coffee]

Peak is yet to come

 

[Romang67]

most impressed I was with his play was in the 2022 playoffs especially the last three games against LA and the first three games against Calgary which were deserving of all the hype he gets as one of the absolutely best ever, that playoffs his stats looked less than his play, in all the other examples I feel the stats flatter his play

everything else I feel has been pretty overhyped

2023 was a powerplay merchant year and despite his vast lead over everyone that year in stats he couldn't muster even a slim lead in the 5v5 category and the Kucherov and MacKinnon both hit 140 the next year (with less powerplay reliance) although this year he really showed he could score goals a bunch in different ways than the usual chip shot so that was impressive

2024 playoffs was up and down it took him until the Dallas series to be the clear best player on his team and then the Florida series was again up and down

2021 is definitely last, covid asterix north division short year where like he tore up a couple teams playing them so often (so for example Toronto didn't have too much trouble against him) and he sucked in the playoffs vs the Jets

This idea that McDavid's 2022/23 season was less impressive because he scored a lot on the PP while having less PP ice time than either MacKinnon or Kucherov did in the 2023/24 is one of the more inconsistent ones I've seen on here. And yet I've seen it twice now.

If MacKinnon or Kucherov were as capable to score on the PP as McDavid was in his 153 point season, they could have cleared 160 points. It wasn't a matter of opportunity. They just couldn't do it.

 

[elmaco]

It's the 2024 playoffs. There's a reason why no losing teams player has won the Smythe in so long.

You can call that a generational achievement, literally.

 

[PuckG]

If scoring on the power play is a bad thing to you or something that makes you diminish a player, then you need to reevaluate your understanding of hockey.

 

[Video Nasty]

If scoring on the power play is a bad thing to you or something that makes you diminish a player, then you need to reevaluate your understanding of hockey.

Meanwhile, the same people still pine for Mario Lemieux.

 

[authentic]

2022 playoffs was the best he ever looked to me, it was him vs. the LA Kings and he won decisively.

 

[PB37]

If scoring on the power play is a bad thing to you or something that makes you diminish a player, then you need to reevaluate your understanding of hockey.

It's one of the strangest hive mind takes to come out of HFboards.

 

[ViD]

Peak is yet to come

Nah, we’ve seen the best of him

 

[Coffee]

Nah, we’ve seen the best of him

@Coffey

Bro must be a prophet

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Last years playoffs pretty easily

 

[tabness]

This idea that McDavid's 2022/23 season was less impressive because he scored a lot on the PP while having less PP ice time than either MacKinnon or Kucherov did in the 2023/24 is one of the more inconsistent ones I've seen on here. And yet I've seen it twice now.

If MacKinnon or Kucherov were as capable to score on the PP as McDavid was in his 153 point season, they could have cleared 160 points. It wasn't a matter of opportunity. They just couldn't do it.

I don't deny that McDavid's roaming itself is a key reason why the Oilers powerplay is the best recorded powerplay in history but the other personnel play a huge part (see previous powerplays with Barrie instead of Bouchard and without Hyman net front).

He's obviously a better powerplay player than MacKinnon (who isn't as smart as McDavid) or Kucherov (who isn't as great a finesse talent) and that counts for something.

Compared to the other options though, he wrecked it in the 2022 playoffs at 5v5 and it was just visibly more impressive then his regular season play the next year.

I don't get this naive "all points count the same", it's not true for Kucherov's empty net feasting and it's not true for McDavid, since 5v5 is when most of the game is played.

Bringing up Mario Lemieux isn't worth a full detailed response since Lemieux is a far better player than McDavid anyway and I don't really dignify a comparison with the player of the nineties to the player of today's powderpuff era (plus it's my man @Video Nasty who is just defending McDavid's legacy so it's sort of understood lol), but even Lemieux this is why I roll my eyes at any suggestion that Lemieux in 1995-1996 was anywhere close to the player he was earlier despite whatever with league scoring, adjusted stats, or whatnot.

 

[Romang67]

I don't deny that McDavid's roaming itself is a key reason why the Oilers powerplay is the best recorded powerplay in history but the other personnel play a huge part (see previous powerplays with Barrie instead of Bouchard and without Hyman net front).

He's obviously a better powerplay player than MacKinnon (who isn't as smart as McDavid) or Kucherov (who isn't as great a finesse talent) and that counts for something.

Compared to the other options though, he wrecked it in the 2022 playoffs at 5v5 and it was just visibly more impressive then his regular season play the next year.

I don't get this naive "all points count the same", it's not true for Kucherov's empty net feasting and it's not true for McDavid, since 5v5 is when most of the game is played.

Bringing up Mario Lemieux isn't worth a full detailed response since Lemieux is a far better player than McDavid anyway and I don't really dignify a comparison with the player of the nineties to the player of today's powderpuff era (plus it's my man @Video Nasty who is just defending McDavid's legacy so it's sort of understood lol), but even Lemieux this is why I roll my eyes at any suggestion that Lemieux in 1995-1996 was anywhere close to the player he was earlier despite whatever with league scoring, adjusted stats, or whatnot.

You don't get why points on the PP is completely different than points against the empty net? An effective PP affects the game in a multitude of ways. Being good at scoring on an empty net doesn't.

Who cares if 5v5 is when most of the game is played? How does that in any way reduce the impact McDavid's PP scoring had in 22/23? McDavid didn't score those 70+ PP points any less because he did it during non-5v5 play.

It's a baffling take.

 

[Connor McConnor]

I don't deny that McDavid's roaming itself is a key reason why the Oilers powerplay is the best recorded powerplay in history but the other personnel play a huge part (see previous powerplays with Barrie instead of Bouchard and without Hyman net front).

He's obviously a better powerplay player than MacKinnon (who isn't as smart as McDavid) or Kucherov (who isn't as great a finesse talent) and that counts for something.

Compared to the other options though, he wrecked it in the 2022 playoffs at 5v5 and it was just visibly more impressive then his regular season play the next year.

I don't get this naive "all points count the same", it's not true for Kucherov's empty net feasting and it's not true for McDavid, since 5v5 is when most of the game is played.

Bringing up Mario Lemieux isn't worth a full detailed response since Lemieux is a far better player than McDavid anyway and I don't really dignify a comparison with the player of the nineties to the player of today's powderpuff era (plus it's my man @Video Nasty who is just defending McDavid's legacy so it's sort of understood lol), but even Lemieux this is why I roll my eyes at any suggestion that Lemieux in 1995-1996 was anywhere close to the player he was earlier despite whatever with league scoring, adjusted stats, or whatnot.

Ovi's 08 = 42%
Sid's 06 = 51%

I guess they are just PP merchants

 

[tabness]

Ovi's 08 = 42%
Sid's 06 = 51%

I guess they are just PP merchants

yes?

I mean OV is stereotyped to hell for his powerplay reliance to a degree even greater than deserved, and this is why most would say Crosby's 2006-2007 isn't his best year despite the higher numbers

 

[Connor McConnor]

yes?

I mean OV is stereotyped to hell for his powerplay reliance to a degree even greater than deserved, and this is why most would say Crosby's 2006-2007 isn't his best year despite the higher numbers

Not even remotely true. Ovi in 08 was still an absolute beast 5v5 and proved it in 09. Sid in 06 was the clear cut best player in the World and nobody was talking about his PP numbers.

 

[Romang67]

I'm like 90% sure that this idea that PP points have less value than 5v5 points stems from a complete misunderstanding of why shot metrics are isolated to 5v5 play.

 

[tabness]

You don't get why points on the PP is completely different than points against the empty net? An effective PP affects the game in a multitude of ways. Being good at scoring on an empty net doesn't.

Who cares if 5v5 is when most of the game is played? How does that in any way reduce the impact McDavid's PP scoring had in 22/23? McDavid didn't score those 70+ PP points any less because he did it during non-5v5 play.

It's a baffling take.

Yes obviously powerplay and empty net are different scenarios, just like powerplay and 5v5 or 5v5 vs 4 on 4/3 on 3. That was sort of my point lol

Powerplay scoring in 2022-2023, the Oilers general powerplay performance is going to far less easy to replicate. Opportunities, other team's catching up to the tactics, and just general sustainability.

Yes games are won on the powerplays, but sometimes you don't get the calls (as I saw so many Oilers fans complain about in the 2023 playoffs lol) and you can't win on relying on them if you don't get enough opportunities.

I'm really not sure why this is even so controversial lol, all teams and players always pay lip service to winning on 5v5 because well, that's the default state and by far the most common scenario.

 

[Romang67]

Yes obviously powerplay and empty net are different scenarios, just like powerplay and 5v5 or 5v5 vs 4 on 4/3 on 3. That was sort of my point lol

Powerplay scoring in 2022-2023, the Oilers general powerplay performance is going to far less easy to replicate. Opportunities, other team's catching up to the tactics, and just general sustainability.

Yes games are won on the powerplays, but sometimes you don't get the calls (as I saw so many Oilers fans complain about in the 2023 playoffs lol) and you can't win on relying on them if you don't get enough opportunities.

I'm really not sure why this is even so controversial lol, all teams and players always pay lip service to winning on 5v5 because well, that's the default state and by far the most common scenario.

It doesn't matter if 5v5 play is the most common scenario if you're good enough on the PP to nullify the difference in ice time spent on 5v5 vs PP. McDavid was.

Who cares if McDavid's 22/23 performance is replicable? If a player puts up 200 points in a season on a shooting percentage of 100% and entirely on the PP, is that a less impressive achievement because he did so in a way he won't be able to do again?

Again, I swear people have stared themselves blind at shot metrics, misunderstood why they're isolated to 5v5 hockey, and come to the conclusion that other areas of hockey don't matter.

 

[Romang67]

The year Mario Lemieux scored 199 points, 79 of his points, or roughly 40%, came on the PP.

I have never in my entire life heard anyone claim that Lemieux's season wasn't one of the most impressive seasons in NHL history because he scored a bunch of his points on the PP. Probably because, as it turns out, it's actually a good thing to score points on the PP. It helps your team win games.

 

[tabness]

Dunno about others focusing on 5 on 5, but for me, I'm not super in to fancy stats though, I'm just also don't take hockey card stats at face value. The emphasis on 5 on 5 is just like hockey common sense though.

In the options listed above, it isn't just about the 150!!! and whatever, stats are merely a reflection of play and not a direct reflection either, there are other factors.

If someone wanted to argue for McDavid's 2022-2023 on the basis of his goal scoring which was much more variegated than before (or after) then sure go for it, that's at least understandable to me more than he hit 150!!! (because of an enormous amount of powerplay points on a record setting powerplay that is now coming back down to earth). Though even in that case I'd just point out that McDavid was showing that ability to score in all ways during the 2022 playoffs as well

 

[crowfish]

I rank the best versions of Connor McDavid like this:

1) 2021-22 Playoffs

33 pts in 16 games, created a ridiculous number of chances every time he was on the ice. Small sample but I have never seen him look better. We will not see another player lead the playoffs in scoring while not even reaching the finals.

2) 2022-23 Regular Season

153 points in 82 games, led the league in all 3 primary stats. There has not been a season that dominant since Mario.

3) 2020-21 Canadian Division Year

His stats were technically more impressive this year than in 2022-23, but I rank it a bit lower to take into account the smaller sample size and the unique divisions playing the same teams over and over. His stats were pretty outrageous though, he had more assists than anyone else had points (besides his teammate Draisaitl)

4) 2023-24 Playoffs

Won the Conn Smythe on a losing team, broke a Gretzky assist record (something that will never happen again), became the only 40+ point scorer in the playoffs besides the 2 GOATs Gretzky/Lemieux. Despite all of this, he did not look as good to my eye test as other versions of himself, which is understandable since he was playing with a few injuries.

5) 2023-24 Regular Season

Hit the 100 assist mark, was 2nd in pts/game but for that to happen he needed to get injured twice & have Kucherov break the all-time empty net points record. But despite still being the best player in the league, he didn't look as good as other versions of himself. He played a more safe finesse-style game, rather than the aggressive attacking style that we saw in 2022. Didn't appear to have his lethal shot (injury?) He passed in spots where he had a Grade A shooting opportunity a laughable amount of times during that season.