What is Mario Lemieux's best season

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Sometimes nothing in the NHL makes sense. The great super Mario was correct when he spoke those immortal words

 

[Thenameless]

Its the biggest robbery in the history of the Hart. Nothing else comes even close.

The Penguins first made the playoffs in 88-89 entirely on the back of Mario... The Kings had made the playoffs two prior years to Gretz arriving, and it had Robataille and a like a half dozen crazy mofos from Sudbury like Dave Taylor and Ron Dugay. They were solid AF.

Total joke and slap in Mario the magnificents face.

I like "half a dozen mofos from Sudbury". Makes the post more authentic.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Lemieux fans love to bitch about him getting "robbed" of the hart in 1989, but what about the absolute joke of a pearson/lindsay he won in 1986? Gretzky tore him a new hole in pts (215-141, a 74pt gap) but I never see any Lemieux fan complaining about that. It's always this fantasy world where only he was injured, only he was robbed, etc.

Pearson is a weird one that they get wrong all the time. Gretzky absolutely should have won in 86, but Lemieux should have won in 89. Not even Gretzky won it in 89, it was Yzerman. I think players get bored or something giving it to the obvious guy.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Pearson is a weird one that they get wrong all the time. Gretzky absolutely should have won in 86, but Lemieux should have won in 89. Not even Gretzky won it in 89, it was Yzerman. I think players get bored or something giving it to the obvious guy.

I'm pretty sure the Pearson prior to 87-88 had a different definition than the current one. Something like "most dedication to hockey" or along those lines. I could be wrong though.

 

[Voight]

92-93 is the most impressive season in all of pro sports considering the circumstances surrounding it.

Its up there but not sure I'd rank it as the most impressive.

Lou Gehrig for example put up an all star season while suffering from the early stages of ALS

 

[WalterLundy]

88-89 not close at all. Plays nearly the full season and puts up the best non Gretzky season in history. The best season after 82, 84, 85 and 86 Gretzky. He had more points through 60 games and 40 games in 1989 than he did in 1993 (the respective points when Lemieux’s 93 stopped and ended). After beating 1993 at each respective games played mark he tallies an extra 39 more points overall. His Ross competition was also clearly weaker in 1993. Gretzky wasn’t in his peak anymore but was still in the back end of his prime and still excellent. Yzerman also had an incredible year. He also didn’t have that great of a supporting cast that year as compared to 93 and (especially for point compiling) 96. Although for a 23 year old Lemieux on a team that needed him to eat up all the production it was actually a good setup for him to go all out. He also looked more dominant this year by far to my eye than any other version.

93 is great as well obviously and I get the narrative with it making it special as well but this isn’t even a question in my mind. 96 is also such a distant third that I don’t think it should even be an option.

 

[norrisnick]

Its the biggest robbery in the history of the Hart. Nothing else comes even close.

The Penguins first made the playoffs in 88-89 entirely on the back of Mario... The Kings had made the playoffs two prior years to Gretz arriving, and it had Robataille and a like a half dozen crazy mofos from Sudbury like Dave Taylor and Ron Dugay. They were solid AF.

Total joke and slap in Mario the magnificents face.

The 1954 Hart was given to the worst starting goalie in the league.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I think 88-89 just because it was a more full season.

92-93 was crazy when he came back though.. but both 92-93 and 95-96 are seasons that need the old * for TV timeouts and league crackdowns/PPOs. So yeah, 88-89 even though Pittsburgh had about 1 million PPO that season as well.

Your wrong. Lemieux has 3 of the highest 4 adjusted ppg seasons in nhl history.

NHL era adjusted stats

This analysis uses Hockey Reference's adjusted Statistics, which allows us to more fairly compare players from different scoring eras. We're also going to limit our analysis to post WW2 (actually I included Maurice Richard too, who started in 1943). Why exclude season's prior to 1945? Because...

observablehq.com

its the second graph as you scroll down

You're wrong. Hockey reference adjusted stats are garbage.

 

[centipede2233]

I think 88-89 just because it was a more full season.

92-93 was crazy when he came back though.. but both 92-93 and 95-96 are seasons that need the old * for TV timeouts and league crackdowns/PPOs. So yeah, 88-89 even though Pittsburgh had about 1 million PPO that season as well.



You're wrong. Hockey reference adjusted stats are garbage.

No, your wrong

No, your wrong

Your posts are garbage

 

[Staniowski]

I think about the best of Lemieux as kind of a comparison, or a mixture, of the healthy, agile, physical peak of '87-'88 and '88-'89 (and the '87 Canada Cup), and his more savvy years in the early '90s, where he had a back back. He became a smarter player, but couldn't, for the most part, do quite as much physically. He did have his moments, though, including those playoff years ('91 and '92), and other times here and there.

But we didn't see the best of Lemieux, most likely. He was still ascending when his back became a major issue in the '90 season.

 

[Video Nasty]

No, your wrong


Your posts are garbage

Oof, quoted himself and wrote that.

 

[centipede2233]

Oof, quoted himself and wrote that.

Oh look everyone it’s the quote police!

 

[Sotty]

Of the listed seasons 92-93 is the "best". But I think his most impressive season is not even listed.
His 00-01 season is just crazy. Coming back after over 3 years, age 34 and scoring at an insane rate in the dead puck era. He would have won the scoring title by 20+ points over a full season and also the Rocket with a comfortable lead.

 

[Video Nasty]

Oh look everyone it’s the quote police!

Sorry, I got distracted watching McDavid highlights again. What was that about the quote police?

 

[Voight]

Oof, quoted himself and wrote that.

 

[WalterLundy]

Of the listed seasons 92-93 is the "best". But I think his most impressive season is not even listed.
His 00-01 season is just crazy. Coming back after over 3 years, age 34 and scoring at an insane rate in the dead puck era. He would have won the scoring title by 20+ points over a full season and also the Rocket with a comfortable lead.

I’d understand an argument 92-93 being more impressive given the adversity and storyline but not best. 88-89 was better at each relative stopping point for 92-93 with less help and against better competition. I can at least understand selecting it though.

00-01 was impressive for the age and the era to be sure but you can’t extrapolate for a season he returned halfway through in. From his return on December 27th 2000 onward here are the league leaders:

Jagr: 45 GP: 33 G, 51 A, 84 P (1.87)
Lemieux: 43 GP: 35 G, 41 A, 76 P (1.77)
Sakic: 46 GP: 34 G, 36 A, 70 P (1.52)
Bure: 47 GP: 40 G, 22 A, 62 P (1.32)

He doesn’t win any awards that year or lead in any per game stat. He was great in spurts from 01-03 but that’s about it.

 

[bobbyking]

1992-93 was pretty amazing. I believe if he was able to play the whole season he would have broken the goal and point record that year.

what about gretzky missing games ?

 

[BraveCanadian]

what about gretzky missing games ?

Gretzky never missed games, was never injured, and always played on dynasty teams.

/s

 

[Wings4Life]

Lemiuex sat out a few games in 1996 despite being healthy (notably, when a back-to-back situation arose) to save his ailing back, I think that this was his least impressive season of the three.

 

[BenchBrawl]

1993 and 1989 are close, I don't know.

1996 Jagr was probably a better player already. More dynamic, better at even-strength, etc.

I would pick Mario's 1988 season before 1996.

1996 was just more memorable because Mario, Jagr and Francis were dominating the scoring lead along with Sakic and Forsberg. So the newspaper stats section was fun to follow that year.

 

[SEALBound]

I'd say 89 because the team wasn't stacked yet.

This is why I said 89.

199pts (218 pace) with Rob Brown and Bob Errey as your linemates? Single greatest performance ever. No Kurri, no Jagr, no Draisaitl...Rob Brown and Bob Errey.

 

[Albatros]

There was Paul Coffey in '89. Also the league as a whole was a bit weaker than in '93.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

1993 and 1989 are close, I don't know.

1996 Jagr was probably a better player already. More dynamic, better at even-strength, etc.

I would pick Mario's 1988 season before 1996.

1996 was just more memorable because Mario, Jagr and Francis were dominating the scoring lead along with Sakic and Forsberg. So the newspaper stats section was fun to follow that year.

The guy with 12 less points in 12 more games was a better player? Interesting. I guess thats why lemieux again won the ross in convincing fashion the following season. Very very interesting.

 

[WalterLundy]

The guy with 12 less points in 12 more games was a better player? Interesting. I guess thats why lemieux again won the ross in convincing fashion the following season. Very very interesting.

Jagr was better at even strength both seasons and goal scoring was very similar. Once the league powerplay extravaganza ended in late January, the gap between Lemieux and the field was shrunken down to the level it was in 1996-97 overnight. In 97 there were Jagr and Lindros who were quite close in points per game and it was that way as well at the end of 95-96 after the league stopped the crazy powerplay fest. The penguins went from scoring 5 goals a game to under 4 and it never returned to an 80s level scoring environment for the pens like we saw. This all ended around January 27th 1996. If you look it up from that point on until his first retirement Lemieux was only marginally better than Jagr and Lindros per game and worse at even strength than either. Goals per game there is no gap either. The only reason there was a statistical gap is because the penguins ran their powerplay through Lemieux exclusively and he was on for every powerplay goal that year when he was in the lineup. The first half of 95-96 was 80s level and the gap was purely predicated on the man advantage tailored to Lemieux.

1995-96 second half when penalties stopped being called at insane rates

Lemieux: 29 GP: 52 PTS (147 pace)
Jagr: 41 GP: 65 PTS (130 pace)
Francis: 36 GP: 44 PTS (100 pace)


1996-97 first half which is roughly the same environment as the second half of 95-96

Lemieux: 41 GP: 74 PTS (148 pace)
Jagr: 41 GP: 65 PTS (130 pace)
Francis: 41 GP: 48 PTS (96 pace)

1996-97 second half as things progressively get lower scoring league wide

Lemieux: 35 GP: 48 PTS (112 pace)
Jagr: 22 GP: 30 PTS (112 pace)
Francis: 40 GP: 42 PTS (86 pace)

I’m not saying that Jagr was flat out better than Lemieux was those years but I would say he was VERY close to as good as Lemieux then when you consider everything.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Jagr was better at even strength both seasons and goal scoring was very similar. Once the league powerplay extravaganza ended in late January, the gap between Lemieux and the field was shrunken down to the level it was in 1996-97 overnight. In 97 there were Jagr and Lindros who were quite close in points per game and it was that way as well at the end of 95-96 after the league stopped the crazy powerplay fest. The penguins went from scoring 5 goals a game to under 4 and it never returned to an 80s level scoring environment for the pens like we saw. This all ended around January 27th 1996. If you look it up from that point on until his first retirement Lemieux was only marginally better than Jagr and Lindros per game and worse at even strength than either. Goals per game there is no gap either. The only reason there was a statistical gap is because the penguins ran their powerplay through Lemieux exclusively and he was on for every powerplay goal that year when he was in the lineup. The first half of 95-96 was 80s level and the gap was purely predicated on the man advantage tailored to Lemieux.

1995-96 second half when penalties stopped being called at insane rates

Lemieux: 29 GP: 52 PTS (147 pace)
Jagr: 41 GP: 65 PTS (130 pace)
Francis: 36 GP: 44 PTS (100 pace)


1996-97 first half which is roughly the same environment as the second half of 95-96

Lemieux: 41 GP: 74 PTS (148 pace)
Jagr: 41 GP: 65 PTS (130 pace)
Francis: 41 GP: 48 PTS (96 pace)

1996-97 second half as things progressively get lower scoring league wide

Lemieux: 35 GP: 48 PTS (112 pace)
Jagr: 22 GP: 30 PTS (112 pace)
Francis: 40 GP: 42 PTS (86 pace)

I’m not saying that Jagr was flat out better than Lemieux was those years but I would say he was VERY close to as good as Lemieux then when you consider everything.

So mack is the best player in the league by this measure