What if the Leafs never traded Wendel Clark?

[Rapsfan]

What if he wasn't traded for Sundin? How different would this franchise be? And would they win the cup by now?

EDIT: Sorry it's Wendel Clark not Clarkson. I went to bed after I typed it.

Click to read more...

 

[Gabriel426]

They should have traded Clark and Potvin for Lindros.

 

[The Iceman]

There is 2 minutes I will never get back

 

[VanW27]

Wendel was a heck of player when healthy, unfortunately for him and fans he was never healthy.

Clark post trade:
330GP, 122G, 88A, 210Pts
best season
65GP, 30G, 19A, 49Pts (this was during his second of 3 Leafs stints btw)

Sundin as a Leaf:
981GP, 420G, 567A, 987Pts
best season
82GP, 41G, 53A, 94Pts

Interestingly enough both of their "best seasons" as far as goals/points go came as teamates with the Leafs in 96/97

 

[egd27]

Wendel was a heck of player when healthy, unfortunately for him and fans he was never healthy.

Clark post trade:
330GP, 122G, 88A, 210Pts
best season
65GP, 30G, 19A, 49Pts (this was during his second of 3 Leafs stints btw)

Sundin as a Leaf:
981GP, 420G, 567A, 987Pts
best season
82GP, 41G, 53A, 94Pts

Interestingly enough both of their "best seasons" as far as goals/points go came as teamates with the Leafs in 96/97

First ballot HOF'er vs a lunch bucket guy with a lot of heart

 

[TakeTheBody]

What if it wasn't a slow news day would we have a better topic?

 

[Rapsfan]

Wendel was a heck of player when healthy, unfortunately for him and fans he was never healthy.

Clark post trade:
330GP, 122G, 88A, 210Pts
best season
65GP, 30G, 19A, 49Pts (this was during his second of 3 Leafs stints btw)

Sundin as a Leaf:
981GP, 420G, 567A, 987Pts
best season
82GP, 41G, 53A, 94Pts

Interestingly enough both of their "best seasons" as far as goals/points go came as teamates with the Leafs in 96/97

Damn. It's sad how he broke down early.

 

[ottomaddox]

It does make you wonder about TOR's alternate time line would have been once Nonis decided to walk away from The Clarkson deal.

 

[justashadowof]

The Leafs probably would have drafted top 5 in the vicinity of 1997/1998/1999/2000. Probably couldn't have attracted Cujo to sign here. Totally different franchise history IMO.

 

[Cams]

Clark was a great player. Super tough for a smaller guy, rocket of a shot (esp wrist shot), hit like freight train, could/would fight anyone, even those way bigger than he was. Don't think he could play today's game though - guys like him, Neely, Stevens would be in the penalty box or suspended all the time.

The sad part is, Wendel's game resulted in him being hurt way too often. Off the top of my head, I can't remember for sure, but wasn't there a couple guys who took his knees out with dirty hits (Marchment maybe?), plus I think he re-injured his back after having to fight Probert twice in Probert's first game back in Toronto. Probert was much bigger. I just think playing that go through a brick wall style, plus having to fight heavyweights in the Chuck Norris division over the years really shortened his career.

 

[justashadowof]

Clark was a great player. Super tough for a smaller guy, rocket of a shot (esp wrist shot), hit like freight train, could/would fight anyone, even those way bigger than he was. Don't think he could play today's game though - guys like him, Neely, Stevens would be in the penalty box or suspended all the time.

The sad part is, Wendel's game resulted in him being hurt way too often. Off the top of my head, I can't remember for sure, but wasn't there a couple guys who took his knees out with dirty hits (Marchment maybe?), plus I think he re-injured his back after having to fight Probert twice in Probert's first game back in Toronto. Probert was much bigger. I just think playing that go through a brick wall style, plus having to fight heavyweights in the Chuck Norris division over the years really shortened his career.

It's rich when I read the usual types pretend to admire Wendel Clark then go in another thread and rip players like Nazem Kadri whose career body of offences pale in comparison to stuff that happened in Wendel Clark's rookie season alone.

My personal opinion on Wendel Clark the player, not Wendel Clark the legend, is that he was a very flawed player. He was one of the worst defensive Leafs star forwards I can recall. It's counter intuitive because he had been a defenseman and all that. He wasn't even remotely competent when asked to man the point of the power play, it was usually a guarantee of breakaways against. He would often just ignore the point man in the defensive zone and wasn't great on breakout plays. Plus he could get goaded into taking bad penalties although the opponent would pay a price for goading him. But man he hit like a freight train, had a super heavy wrist shot and his puck skills improved appreciably during his early years of his career. And he was a fearsome fighter. And from all accounts a good teammate.

 

[4thline]

The Leafs probably would have drafted top 5 in the vicinity of 1997/1998/1999/2000. Probably couldn't have attracted Cujo to sign here. Totally different franchise history IMO.

Right up there with JFJ getting the greenlight to rebuild and Cliff's ham handed victory lap not pissing off the muskoka five and getting torched on every aspect of the tear down

Edit- Burke's summer of 09 is probably tops in terms of cap era turning points

Step 1- put on you big boy pants when you and Chiarelli realize you've miscommunicated on whose 1st is in the deal, make it Kessel + 25 for Kaberle +7

Step 2- don't pick Kenny Ryan, Jesse Blacker, and Jamie Devane over some combination of Dumoulin/Panik/Orlov + Tatar/Barrie/McNabb + Rielly Smith

Step 3- don't give Kubina away for nothing

Step 4- don't sign Mike Komisarek

Step 5- don't give up on Stralman too early

Step 6- you already have Kessel so you can't give up 1st+1st+2nd

 

[freshwind]

My personal opinion on Wendel Clark the player, not Wendel Clark the legend, is that he was a very flawed player. He was one of the worst defensive Leafs star forwards I can recall. It's counter intuitive because he had been a defenseman and all that. He wasn't even remotely competent when asked to man the point of the power play, it was usually a guarantee of breakaways against. He would often just ignore the point man in the defensive zone and wasn't great on breakout plays. Plus he could get goaded into taking bad penalties although the opponent would pay a price for goading him. But man he hit like a freight train, had a super heavy wrist shot and his puck skills improved appreciably during his early years of his career. And he was a fearsome fighter. And from all accounts a good teammate.

I often wonder what wendel may have been if he actually had a quality coach when he broke in to the nhl? if he had been a rookie with either burns or quinn? playing for watt, brophy and maloney certainly did not help his career in my view ...
i agree, outside of fighting and his shot he really showed very little hockey sense ... but regardless, no one can ever question his heart and effort - he gave everything he had and deserves to be a fan fave

 

[Canadian Finn]

OP made a post without talking about basketball.

Sure, it contained a big mistake, but at least it was about hockey.

Well done OP.

 

[Cams]

It's rich when I read the usual types pretend to admire Wendel Clark then go in another thread and rip players like Nazem Kadri whose career body of offences pale in comparison to stuff that happened in Wendel Clark's rookie season alone.

My personal opinion on Wendel Clark the player, not Wendel Clark the legend, is that he was a very flawed player. He was one of the worst defensive Leafs star forwards I can recall. It's counter intuitive because he had been a defenseman and all that. He wasn't even remotely competent when asked to man the point of the power play, it was usually a guarantee of breakaways against. He would often just ignore the point man in the defensive zone and wasn't great on breakout plays. Plus he could get goaded into taking bad penalties although the opponent would pay a price for goading him. But man he hit like a freight train, had a super heavy wrist shot and his puck skills improved appreciably during his early years of his career. And he was a fearsome fighter. And from all accounts a good teammate.

Different game when Clark played compared to Kadri. Kadri played himself out of town, it's his own fault. Does it really matter when comparing? Kadri wouldn't have been suspended as often and got the rep he got playing in the late 80s. If Clark played now, as I said, would be suspended more than Tom Wilson.

 

[nsleaf]

Different game when Clark played compared to Kadri. Kadri played himself out of town, it's his own fault. Does it really matter when comparing? Kadri wouldn't have been suspended as often and got the rep he got playing in the late 80s. If Clark played now, as I said, would be suspended more than Tom Wilson.

This reply may be too rich for the usual types to comprehend.

 

[ShaneFalco]

This reply may be too rich for the usual types to comprehend.

That's why we depend on your vast knowledge and thought-provoking comments and analysis

 

[al secord]

Different game when Clark played compared to Kadri. Kadri played himself out of town, it's his own fault. Does it really matter when comparing? Kadri wouldn't have been suspended as often and got the rep he got playing in the late 80s. If Clark played now, as I said, would be suspended more than Tom Wilson.

He'd be in jail.

 

[Havoc]

Different game when Clark played compared to Kadri. Kadri played himself out of town, it's his own fault. Does it really matter when comparing? Kadri wouldn't have been suspended as often and got the rep he got playing in the late 80s. If Clark played now, as I said, would be suspended more than Tom Wilson.

True. I couldn't sleep one night so was watching some Gary Roberts playoff highlights.

Some of his hits would have sent him to the sidelines for half the series today too.

That one on Kenny Johnsson against the Islanders is an easy 5-7 games today. If our Bruins series occurred in 2001, Kadri would probably be a playoff hero.

 

[justashadowof]

Different game when Clark played compared to Kadri. Kadri played himself out of town, it's his own fault. Does it really matter when comparing? Kadri wouldn't have been suspended as often and got the rep he got playing in the late 80s. If Clark played now, as I said, would be suspended more than Tom Wilson.

A different game? Gee, never thought about that.

OT: Been watching old 60's and 70's playoff games on Youtube recently. You know what? It's really entertaining hockey, better than the modern game in many ways. It's not the fighting (there's almost none of that stuff in playoff games) and there's much less hitting too. The games have fantastic flow, the goalies have to actually move to stop shots and there aren't defensive systems stifling the quality of the game.
Highly recommended!

Edit: You also get new insight into players who are mostly pure legend. Bobby Orr wasn't an amazing defensive player like I assumed he would be. Of course he was facing high quality competition in playoff matches. Dick Duff looked like the best player on the Leafs in a few games I saw. You never really hear his name much. George Armstrong was a force on the ice (his stats never looked terribly impressive). Ed Giacomin was quite a goalie. No one ever mentions his name much.

 

[Lauro]

No hope of winning during the not-Sundin years too.

 

[Stephen]

Wendel was a heck of player when healthy, unfortunately for him and fans he was never healthy.

Clark post trade:
330GP, 122G, 88A, 210Pts
best season
65GP, 30G, 19A, 49Pts (this was during his second of 3 Leafs stints btw)

Sundin as a Leaf:
981GP, 420G, 567A, 987Pts
best season
82GP, 41G, 53A, 94Pts

Interestingly enough both of their "best seasons" as far as goals/points go came as teamates with the Leafs in 96/97

Not sure that's true for Wendel. His best season was in 1994 when he scored 46 in 64, which would have put him on a 60 goal, (and a 100 point pace in 84 games). Aka the basis for how the Leafs could get value like Sundin in the first place...

 

[Lightsol]

Trading Clark was the right thing to do at the time; Sundin was much younger and was clearly going to be a piece for the future, whereas Wendel was starting to break down. The stupid move wasn't trading him, it was trading back for him a few years later. THAT deal hurt the Leafs much worse than trading him ever did...

 

[Lightsol]

OT: Been watching old 60's and 70's playoff games on Youtube recently. You know what? It's really entertaining hockey, better than the modern game in many ways. It's not the fighting (there's almost none of that stuff in playoff games) and there's much less hitting too. The games have fantastic flow, the goalies have to actually move to stop shots and there aren't defensive systems stifling the quality of the game.
Highly recommended!

I watched a bit of the 89 and 90 Cup Finals a few weeks ago, and the first thing you always notice with the old games is how much smaller the goalie equipment is. There's a reason goalies moved a lot more back then; because now a fully decked out goalie covers about 70% of the net without moving, and that can go up with size (a 6'5" goalies covers way more of the net than a 6' one). Not to mention the leather equipment vs the synthetic stuff they use now; wet leather gets INSANELY heavy...

 

[Buds17]

The NHL entry draft might never have turned into "must see TV" for me!