Speculation: What if Alex Galchenyuk didn't create that brutal giveaway?

[TimeZone]

We find another way to lose.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Ok, but with all due respect the Galychenuck turnover was beyond belief. Which Dermott, Marner, Sandin, Thornton giveaway resulted in a 2 on 0 overtime winner?

I understand that not all giveaways are treated equally. That said, the game doesn't even go to OT if Sandin makes 2 very rudimentary plays. The margin of victory in the playoffs is very slim. Those are 2 avoidable mistakes that cost us the game IMO.

Mistakes are part of the game. Sandin is not immune from them, neither is Gally. To me, all 3 of those goals were massively avoidable and should be treated equally. Regardless of the in game circumstances.

Just because it was OT does not mean that the mistake free hockey began then. It should be that mistake free mindset from the opening puck drop in playoffs IMO. The playoffs are won and lost by these little mistakes.

Gally's giveaway was truly inexcusable. But I really feel the same way about the 2 mistakes Sandin made as well.

 

[Sypher04]

I understand that not all giveaways are treated equally. That said, the game doesn't even go to OT if Sandin makes 2 very rudimentary plays. The margin of victory in the playoffs is very slim. Those are 2 avoidable mistakes that cost us the game IMO.

Mistakes are part of the game. Sandin is not immune from them, neither is Gally. To me, all 3 of those goals were massively avoidable and should be treated equally. Regardless of the in game circumstances.

Just because it was OT does not mean that the mistake free hockey began then. It should be that mistake free mindset from the opening puck drop in playoffs IMO. The playoffs are won and lost by these little mistakes.

Gally's giveaway was truly inexcusable. But I really feel the same way about the 2 mistakes Sandin made as well.

they should have played sandin more during the regular season so he’d be more prepared for playoffs.

 

[Twine Tickler]

they should have played sandin more during the regular season so he’d be more prepared for playoffs.

Injury was the reason he was not playing the majority of the year. Not coaches decision. He was out for 2 months with a broken foot.

But ya maybe there was a handful of HS's in there where he could have potentially checked in. But it would not have been many. And to be honest, I am not sure it would have been a huge difference maker getting an extra game or 2 in the regular season if in fact he was HS'd. He was largely outstanding in his 14 GP this year. Unfortunately for him that game 5 was an awful representation of his abilities. It's going to happen with a young player who plays the way he does. He will learn, and he will be better for it. But the only way to avoid those Sandin errors from a coaching perspective was to either not dress him (which they did in game 6), or bench him after his giveaway's (which they also did).

Everyone deserves some of the blame for this collapse, including the coaching staff. But at the end of the day, Sandin knows his mistakes cost his team a chance at winning in regulation, and Gally knows he cost his team the chance to win in OT. We can blame all the surrounding parts all we want, but the players themselves would never do that. They know they need to be better.

 

[Sypher04]

Injury was the reason he was not playing the majority of the year. Not coaches decision. He was out for 2 months with a broken foot.

View attachment 463972

But ya maybe there was a handful of HS's in there where he could have potentially checked in. But it would not have been many. And to be honest, I am not sure it would have been a huge difference maker getting an extra game or 2 in the regular season if in fact he was HS'd. He was largely outstanding in his 14 GP this year. Unfortunately for him that game 5 was an awful representation of his abilities. It's going to happen with a young player who plays the way he does. He will learn, and he will be better for it. But the only way to avoid those Sandin errors from a coaching perspective was to either not dress him (which they did in game 6), or bench him after his giveaway's (which they also did).

Everyone deserves some of the blame for this collapse, including the coaching staff. But at the end of the day, Sandin knows his mistakes cost his team a chance at winning in regulation, and Gally knows he cost his team the chance to win in OT. We can blame all the surrounding parts all we want, but the players themselves would never do that. They know they need to be better.

I agree. I definitely wasn’t absolving sandin of his mistakes. I’m just saying it somewhat comes with the territory when you lack experience. I still think sandin has a lot of growing to do defensively.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Poor Gally just forgot what team he was playing for. He played good for us consistently is my take on him. He might be pricing himself out of a contract because it wasn’t his play that’s the problem.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I agree. I definitely wasn’t absolving sandin of his mistakes. I’m just saying it somewhat comes with the territory when you lack experience. I still think sandin has a lot of growing to do defensively.

Honestly I think his game is not that far off where it needs to be to be a consistent NHL defensemen. I don't know if he will ever become a premier defender when the puck is not on his tape. I think he will grow to a point where he can hold his own in his own end, similar to Mo, but he likely will get burnt from time to time. Which is fairly common for most offensive defensemen. He makes enough plays with the puck on his blade that actually limits the amount of time he actually defends. His ability to go back on pucks and make high end plays to mitigate the oncoming forecheck is exceptional IMO. It clearly was not on display in game 5, but usually his zone exits are very clean and appear effortless. To me, that stuff will only get better as he figures out the stuff he can and can't get away with at the NHL level. But I really don't know how you can play the way he does without giving up a little in return. I think for him, it will be about recognizing when you have it and when you don't. Game 5 being a perfect example. The time and space was not there. It was in prior games, but not in game 5. He needed to adjust the way he played. He didn't. By him not adjusting, it took his biggest strength (puck carrying) and made it his biggest weakness.

I have a ton of confidence in Rasmus. He is going to be a star IMO. It sucks that his learning experience cost us that game and eventually helped lose us the series, but this is the exposure he needs. Only one way to learn

 

[AvroArrow]

We would have won, we were absolutely dominating them the entire game. Matthews hit one off the post just earlier too I believe. Habs players were dead tired that OT. But you can blame Sandin/Thornton more than anyone. Gally was great except for that one costly play. Sandin/Thornton cost us 3 games.

 

[Crosscrease14]

I understand that not all giveaways are treated equally. That said, the game doesn't even go to OT if Sandin makes 2 very rudimentary plays. The margin of victory in the playoffs is very slim. Those are 2 avoidable mistakes that cost us the game IMO.

Mistakes are part of the game. Sandin is not immune from them, neither is Gally. To me, all 3 of those goals were massively avoidable and should be treated equally. Regardless of the in game circumstances.

Just because it was OT does not mean that the mistake free hockey began then. It should be that mistake free mindset from the opening puck drop in playoffs IMO. The playoffs are won and lost by these little mistakes.

Gally's giveaway was truly inexcusable. But I really feel the same way about the 2 mistakes Sandin made as well.

Keefe deserves equal blame for the Sandin debacle. It was supposed to be a gotcha with Sandin on PP1 and it blew up in his face. Rookie mistakes.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Keefe deserves equal blame for the Sandin debacle. It was supposed to be a gotcha with Sandin on PP1 and it blew up in his face. Rookie mistakes.

It is tough. It's not a black and white thing when it comes to coaching young players. Sandin was great in the prior 4 playoff games that he played. He helped win game 2 which was massive, and he really did make our PP look a lot better IMO. The puck just didn't go in for us, what else is new.

I think it is easy in retrospect to say Keefe should have stapled him to the bench after his first giveaway in game 5. But in reality that's a scumbag move to make as a coach to do that to a kid who had been playing well up till then, in a series where you have a commanding lead. At that time, Keefe is likely thinking long term, and how benching him could affect his confidence going forward for the remainder of the playoffs. Sandin then turns the puck over again, and Keefe has to bench him at this point. Which he did. The hindsiter's of the world will say he was too late, but the logic behind the original call was very valid IMO.

Sandin will be a massive part of our future team, and he was already performing very well last year. Hard to have him on a short leash when he had proven he could play at that level. He needs the room to make mistakes, within reason of course. I wish for his sake that game 5 didn't end the way it did, because it would have been a beautiful oopsie had they managed to win. Unfortunately they lost the game, and the series, and here we are still disectting each mistake with a coulda shoulda woulda analysis. Like we always do lol

add: to the same extent this applies to Gally. He had done everything right for the most part since coming to TOR. Who knows how much that mistake is costing him from getting a good deal in FA. If he doesn't throw that pizza in OT, Leafs advance, and he continues to have a strong playoffs he is almost certainly signed on July 1.

Unfortunate all the way around

 

[steam whistle]

It won't matter tbh, leafs won't go Far.
They could never beat Vegas.

 

[AcerComputer]

What if the puck hit off Mikheyev in game 5 in the 2-1 break away in OT?

 

[Maple Leaf]

would have beat tampa* too

 

[Confucius]

Gally had 1. Sandin had like 4.

Marner had 1 that cost us the game as well.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Keefe deserves equal blame for the Sandin debacle. It was supposed to be a gotcha with Sandin on PP1 and it blew up in his face. Rookie mistakes.

Yep a rook coach put in a rook defender who he knew lacked NHL foot speed .. hired by a rook GM who was hired by a rook president .. bottom line too many ROOKS involved with Leafs .. da result was rook results on ice when it matters .. only bright side is lots of learning and development in Leafland .. on da job learning though at expense of season ticket holders and sponsors

 

[Dayjobdave]

Yep a rook coach put in a rook defender who he knew lacked NHL foot speed .. hired by a rook GM who was hired by a rook president .. bottom line too many ROOKS involved with Leafs .. da result was rook results on ice when it matters .. only bright side is lots of learning and development in Leafland .. on da job learning though at expense of season ticket holders and sponsors

I like Sandin, our coach and the GM but I completely agree that they should have come back with the game 4 lineup

 

[TMLAM34]

Dermott played the entire season and played well, it was pretty stupid to put Sandin in for him to begin with. When you have Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Rielly on the PP and you’re relying on Sandin who’s barely played any hockey in the past year and a half plus barely any NHL games to step into the playoffs and fix the awful PP, there’s a lot of issues…

 

[Metroid]

Ever hear of the butterfly effect?

Ya, that's what would happen if galchenyuck didn't turn the puck away. Anything and everything could or would have happened.

 

[ottomaddox]

Certain people on this board used Analytics to explain why Sandin was an elite defenseman.

What gives?

 

[Morbo]

Galchenyuk is a low IQ poor defensive winger.

if he didn't make that brutal pass, it would have been some other mistake.

 

[ULF_55]

Anyone have a video of the goal.

I'd like to see if Jason Allison has got back into the defensive zone yet!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I like Sandin, our coach and the GM but I completely agree that they should have come back with the game 4 lineup

They will all learn over time for sure but it is cumulative results of ROOKs ..

 

[mydnyte]

The Dermott giveaway in game 6 was arguably worse. If I recall correctly, we were dominanting that OT period and outshooting them by a large margin.

any giveaway that results in an OT goal is bad ...one thing you can control is blind giveaways, especially when you are the last man back; just dont do it!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Certain people on this board used Analytics to explain why Sandin was an elite defenseman.

What gives?

He may have great analytics .. but what he lacks is NHL straight away foot speed .. this has been an issue which is very well known to Marlies and Leaf skating coaches and coaches .. it is due to short stride length not power .. Sandin is very strong on his skates with tremendous core strength

 

[mydnyte]

Leafs still would have found a way to choke somehow. That's just how the team culture is going to remain until they are no longer paying players 11M per season to flip more pucks over the glass the in playoffs than goals scored.

Championship caliber teams find a way to win, while this one finds ways to lose.

Avalanche the past 4 seasons, lost in 1st, lost in 2nd, lost in 2nd, lost in 2nd ...and they were favorites in many of those series (all under Bednar)
Bruins the past 5 seasons, lost in 1st, lost in 2nd, lost in Finals!, lost in 2nd, lost in 2nd ...and they were favorites in all of those series (all under Cassidy)

We havent made it past the 1st round, but, we were the underdogs the first 3 of those playoffs and took much better teams to the brink of elimination.
VS Columbus, people like to say we were the favorite, but, we had the EXACT same records, and they were our worst possible matchup, and lost to a goalie that stood on his head.
VS Montreal, that was the first time we were a true favorite, and lost our Captain in Game 1, BUT should still have Won!! that was a BAD series Loss!!

This is a make it or break it season though, there is no more room for excuses, we will more than likely be the favorite vs any team we meet in the playoffs this season in round one again.
though it will likely be vs Florida or Boston