What has changed with GV/TK

[emptyNedder]

I was reviewing some data in Hockey-Reference. Players who have more takeaways than giveaways each season of their career (Hischier, Barkov, Cirelli, ) are significantly negative this season.

Any ideas why?

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[Bear of Bad News]

I was reviewing some data in Hockey-Reference. Players who have more takeaways than giveaways each season of their career (Hischier, Barkov, Cirelli, ) are significantly negative this season.

Any ideas why?

Seems like the most likely culprit is that they are now committing more giveaways and fewer takeaways.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Cale Makar is also flipped:

Cale Makar Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Cale Makar. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Given my history with using HR, it's always possible that the feed changed and they've incorporated it oddly.

Looks like the NHL stats page matches HR's for a few that I hand-inspected. Hmm.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Is there gambling that involves giveaways and takeaways? There's so much subjectivity in the stat to me it seems crazy they would, but also it allows more gambling so it wouldn't surprise me.

Point being is they've been paying more attention to things like shots on goal now that there's betting involved. I wondered if GV/TK is the same.

 

[izlez]

I noticed this on Zach Benson earlier today. Now looking at a handful of random players, I haven't found one yet that doesn't suddenly have way more giveaways. I think you're right that something is up

 

[Wasted Talent]

They must have changed the definition of a giveaway this season.

If you look at this list of worst teams in terms of giveaways per 60 since 2000, all 32 teams from 2024-25 are in the top 40.

Meanwhile none are in top 50 for takeaways per 60.

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Neil Racki]

I was reviewing some data in Hockey-Reference. Players who have more takeaways than giveaways each season of their career (Hischier, Barkov, Cirelli, ) are significantly negative this season.

Any ideas why?

Can you post some of the data?

Put some meat to that bone?

Could be interesting discussion

 

[tarheelhockey]

They must have changed the definition of a giveaway this season.

My guess is that the subject comes down to efforts to standardize the counting.

Historically these numbers have been incredibly unreliable, with enormous gaps between the teams with the most and least turnovers (like, to the tune of 20+ more per game). It’s so subjective that two scorekeepers can look at the same play and come to completely different conclusions. So if they’ve clarified a definition, or made any effort at adding an element of objectivity, it would throw this year’s numbers way off the norm as the correction happens all at once.

Just a stray thought, but it does seem correct to me that the giveaway numbers should be significantly larger than the takeaway numbers. Giveaways are defined as an “unforced error that results in giving the puck up to the opposition” while takeaways are defined as when “pressure from the defending team results in a defending player gaining possession of the puck”, where pressure means some sort of active act like stripping the puck away. I think it’s pretty easy to observe that any given game of hockey is way more full of giveaways than takeaways.