What happened to the 2003 Red Wings?

[Sanderson]

A bit of digression but did NJ do things differently or did Giguere just not keep up his ridiculous play because he's human?

I think it was largely the big break until the finals that did it.

Giguere was so lights out in the Conference finals that they swept Minnesota letting in exactly one goal in the entire series. Anaheim thus had its last game May 16th. New Jersey, on the other hand, needed all seven games, so their last game came a week later on May 23rd. Game one of the finals was May 27th, so Anaheim had been off for ten days, completely breaking their rhythm.

Now, a bit of a rest can be an advantage, especially when the opponent has to go through a long series, but not when the break is that long. It completely undermines the wave you are riding on. Here the long rest did much more to hurt Anaheim than the lack of rest hurt New Jersey.

You never know how series would play out under different circumstances, but I'm pretty sure Anaheim would have started a whole lot better into the series if they didn't have to sit out for so long. A series that starts soon after game 4 of the conference finals would probably see Giguere stay on top of his game.

 

[Brodeur]

A bit of digression but did NJ do things differently or did Giguere just not keep up his ridiculous play because he's human?

Offensively it didn't seem like the Devils did anything drastically different than what Anaheim's previous opponents would have done. If anything the Devils were trying to figure out their lines after Joe Nieuwendyk's injury kept him out of G7 against Ottawa. Sergei Brylin shifted to center for a few games and then Mike Rupp got a chance and made the most of it.

Oleg Tverdovsky had been a healthy scratch in six of the seven games against Ottawa, but he was inserted against Anaheim since Pat Burns thought he was better speed matchup against Anaheim's forwards. Although in Game 7, Ken Daneyko was put back in for Tverdovsky. Maybe Burns was just playing a hunch that Tverdovsky could dial it up against his former club?

One oddity to that SCF that we wouldn't see today was that all of Anaheim's D were lefty (and 6/7 of NJD's were too). Probably hard to track down footage from the earlier series, but I recall in 2010 that the Devils D was all LH and the Flyers targeted the D playing on the right side. And then the Devils turned the tables against the Flyers in 2012 and did the same.

Just going through the goals from 2003:

Game 1: Friesen (centering pass from LW corner), Marshall (Giguere thought he had smothered the shot, cycle started in LW side)

Game 2: Elias (PP, somewhat fortunate bounce from point shot left Giguere out of position), Gomez (deflection of point shot, cycle started in LW corner) Friesen (scooped loose puck from LW corner)

Game 3: Elias (partial breakaway, bad 2nd period line change by Anaheim), Gomez (deflection by net)

Game 4: shutout -- naturally I had tickets for this game

Game 5: Rheaume (backdoor by net, nice puck protection + pass by Stevenson), Elias (PP fantastic play between Elias and Rafalski), Gionta (intended to be a pass, Ducks player accidentally deflected it past Giguere), Pandolfo (directed in by skate but wasn't a kicking motion), Langenbrunner (Rupp missed shot and the puck hit the back board and rebounded right to Langenbrunner in the slot), Langenbrunner (broken play)

Game 6: Pandolfo (cycle play from LW boards), Marshall (PP tip in front of net)

Game 7: Rupp (deflection of point shot), Friesen (loose rebound from point shot, cycle started in LW corner), Friesen (goal off rush, cut in from RW)

Just off the goals, there seemed to be a little concerted effort to attack the right side D. Other goals were taking shots from the point and going for tips/rebounds. I can't imagine Detroit/Dallas/Minnesota weren't trying to do that.

 

[Crosby2010]

The very good Dallas stars did non, the very good Devils did not.

I am not sure those team should be seen inferior to the Red Wings by 2003, both arguably as good regular season and were loaded.

If there is 3 really great team in a row having a lot of trouble with the same team, they can start to have some credit as hard to beat. And the only team they faced a team that was not one of the best team of all time in the Wild (still a solid very well coached opponent), they won in 4, allowing a single goal.... 9GF-1GA

There is a bit of goaltender not fully part of the team mentality we can have or a goaltender hot streak not being the same as a Joe Sakic-Malkin hot streak, but for the team that try to win it is not different.

I know it was a typo, but the Devils did beat them of course. I get it, it's true they did give some pretty good teams fits. Dallas was 2nd in points, Detroit was 3rd in points and New Jersey was 4th in points. But this version of the Ducks had Sykora and Oates as their top scorers with 13 points. Kariya of all people had 12 measley points that spring. If there was a time for him to lead the team it was now and for whatever reason he never took that plunge. It was all Giguere. No doubt all three teams were heavy favourites and I would say especially Detroit and Jersey. Age or not, and yes the Wings were old, but they just had all the numbers to beat this team. They were the oldest team in history to win the Cup in 2002, even older than the 1967 Leafs. But man, when you compare the rosters, age or not, the Ducks themselves had a 40 year old as their #1 centre.

 

[MadLuke]

I know it was a typo, but the Devils did beat them of course.

No it was meant that way, they took 7 games to beat them, while a clear win overall I would not say they did beat them blindfolded. The Ducks, end of the days, won 7 games after beating the Red Wings against arguably the 2 best teams in the nhl, arguably better than that first round Wings team by that point. They too (specially the Stars) should explain themselve and should have won easily if Detroit should have and they did not.

It was all Giguere.

Yes would it not be of all time first 3 round performance, the Wings or the Stars should beat them, but he was there, having that run.

EV strenght for the most ice time that playoff run for the ducks were Niedermayer-Rucchin then Oates, Pahlsson on the 4th line.

It was maybe underrated at little bit at the time, nothing special, yet Niedermayer-Pahlsson were good playoff piece.

And it could be me projecting here, because it is something I will often do, the X teams was better than Y teams that won with Hasek in net, as if Hasek was not a full part of the team, in fact a bigger part as he play all the minutes. In a way I would not do if McDavid has a great run beating a better team than the Oilers outside their respective number 1, integrating a great forward or a great D has part of the team more.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

So I see the old comments but the team did add Zetterberg (rookie year)and Schneider at the tdl. Zetterberg was younger than Devereaux the year before and Schneider was younger than Olaussonn. Obviously Hasek was better than Cujo and to this day I wonder why they didn't go for Belfour instead. I'll always remember they thought they had game 1 in the bag but the ot winner was called back as the puck never went in. I've always said that was Anaheim's catalyst along with a comeback in game 2 when Detroit had a lead. If the Wings take 1 of those 2 I think we're talking something different here.

 

[Hobnobs]

I know they got stonewalled by Giguere but from what I remember they returned most of their juggernaut super team from the year before other than Hasek. But they had Cujo who is probably better than Vernon and Osgood. That sweep was probably every bit as shocking as the Lightning in 2019.

CuJo might be the most overrated goalie of all-time.

And the answer is, Jiggy was a monster that year.

My memory is fuzzy now, but maybe Wings fans can answer about how Jiri Fischer was used in the 2002-03 season before he got hurt. HockeyReference had him at 21:24 a game which was a bump from the previous season. It seemed like he was starting to break out before the knee injury.

2001-02 playoffs:
Lidstrom: 31:10
Chelios: 26:22
Olausson: 19:58
Fischer: 19:41
Duchesne: 13:36
Dandenault: 13:29

Fischer played a lot with Lidström at ES. He was definitely breaking out and were terrific before the injury.

 

[connellc]

I was a red wing fan at the time. Keep in mind, Dave Lewis was (and proven to be) an awful coach and was seen as the "good cop" during the Bowman regime. Difficult position for Lewie when he had to replace one of the best coaches in sports. I thought it would have been better to give Barry Smith a chance who was a better tactician for the veteran leadership.

The answer in this series (and 2003 team) was Giguere. I don't think I've ever seen a goalie performance in 2003 in the 1st 3 rounds of the playoffs. As stated, bad puck-luck with hitting the post in game 1 in OT really turned the series around. This series was probably a major contributor in Mike Babcock taking Dave Lewis's job, as they withdrew their contract from Lewis and gave it to Babcock.

For anyone that watched the 2014 Latvia Canada Olympic game, it was at that level but four games instead of one. Outshot, but and outplayed but just couldn't beat the goalie

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I just finishes Bryan Trottier's book. He notes that it was only well the team stopped focusing on regular season awards/success that they had the energy to become a dynasty.

also coinciding with the trading away of a longtime isles dman, at the time their all time leader in games played on d… dave lewis

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Offensively it didn't seem like the Devils did anything drastically different than what Anaheim's previous opponents would have done. If anything the Devils were trying to figure out their lines after Joe Nieuwendyk's injury kept him out of G7 against Ottawa. Sergei Brylin shifted to center for a few games and then Mike Rupp got a chance and made the most of it.

Oleg Tverdovsky had been a healthy scratch in six of the seven games against Ottawa, but he was inserted against Anaheim since Pat Burns thought he was better speed matchup against Anaheim's forwards. Although in Game 7, Ken Daneyko was put back in for Tverdovsky. Maybe Burns was just playing a hunch that Tverdovsky could dial it up against his former club?

One oddity to that SCF that we wouldn't see today was that all of Anaheim's D were lefty (and 6/7 of NJD's were too). Probably hard to track down footage from the earlier series, but I recall in 2010 that the Devils D was all LH and the Flyers targeted the D playing on the right side. And then the Devils turned the tables against the Flyers in 2012 and did the same.

Just going through the goals from 2003:

Game 1: Friesen (centering pass from LW corner), Marshall (Giguere thought he had smothered the shot, cycle started in LW side)

Game 2: Elias (PP, somewhat fortunate bounce from point shot left Giguere out of position), Gomez (deflection of point shot, cycle started in LW corner) Friesen (scooped loose puck from LW corner)

Game 3: Elias (partial breakaway, bad 2nd period line change by Anaheim), Gomez (deflection by net)

Game 4: shutout -- naturally I had tickets for this game

Game 5: Rheaume (backdoor by net, nice puck protection + pass by Stevenson), Elias (PP fantastic play between Elias and Rafalski), Gionta (intended to be a pass, Ducks player accidentally deflected it past Giguere), Pandolfo (directed in by skate but wasn't a kicking motion), Langenbrunner (Rupp missed shot and the puck hit the back board and rebounded right to Langenbrunner in the slot), Langenbrunner (broken play)

Game 6: Pandolfo (cycle play from LW boards), Marshall (PP tip in front of net)

Game 7: Rupp (deflection of point shot), Friesen (loose rebound from point shot, cycle started in LW corner), Friesen (goal off rush, cut in from RW)

Just off the goals, there seemed to be a little concerted effort to attack the right side D. Other goals were taking shots from the point and going for tips/rebounds. I can't imagine Detroit/Dallas/Minnesota weren't trying to do that.

OT but that devils team has always been interesting to me, because i didn’t really get to see them until the finals.

it looks to me like elias was struggling all playoffs but against the ducks he looked good to me, and led the finals in scoring. i wonder how the presence and then loss of nieuwendyk affected his production. can you shed some light?

and then to your pt about exploiting anaheim’s RD, langenbrunner (RHS on the RW) went into the finals leading the playoffs in goals and co-leading the devils in scoring (with madden) and was a legit conn smythe candidate in the claude lemieux/justin williams vein. and then in the finals, the scoring was carried by elias and friesen from the LW, and even langenbrunner’s two goals (his only ones in the series, representing 2/3 of his pts) to put game five away were from him coming in on his off wing.

 

[Brodeur]

OT but that devils team has always been interesting to me, because i didn’t really get to see them until the finals.

it looks to me like elias was struggling all playoffs but against the ducks he looked good to me, and led the finals in scoring. i wonder how the presence and then loss of nieuwendyk affected his production. can you shed some light?

Elias was in a funk for most of 2002-03. That was the first year I could afford Center Ice, but I think it started in the 2001-02 season when the coaching staff broke up the Elias-Arnott-Sykora line to try to spread out the offense. Lou alluded in the championship DVD that all three sulked when it happened. So not only was the line broken up in 2002 but Arnott and Sykora were both traded.

Pat Burns tried Elias and Gomez together a few times during the season since the Friesen-Nieuwendyk-Langenbrunner line was the only consistent one we had. At times Gomez was the center, other times Elias would be the center. It just took awhile for them to develop chemistry before hitting their stride in 2003-04 when Brian Gionta got elevated to their line.

I looked up some old articles for the 20th anniversary and there was a rumor floating around about an Elias/Tanguay trade. And then the persistent rumor was that there was a deadline deal involving Gomez/Tverdovsky being shipped out to San Jose for Selanne/Sturm/Ricci but Teemu blocked any trades with his NTC since he apparently had no interest in being a rental.

It was rough since the Devils had the #1 PP in 2000-01 and then were dead last #30 in 2002-03.

Grant Marshall was one of the few forward additions at the deadline and I remember being very skeptical that he was going to help out the offense. But he played reasonably well with Elias-Gomez for that playoff before reverting back to his usual self.

The Niewendyk injury did throw the lines into a blender. Just by minutes, John Madden was the #1 center for the finals. I think these were the Game 1 forward lines against Anaheim.

Elias-Gomez-Marshall
Pandolfo-Madden-Langenbrunner
Friesen-Brylin-Gionta
Bicek-Rheaume-McKenzie

Eventually Turner Stevenson got cleared and played RW4. And then after the games in Anaheim, Burns thought were missing size down the middle so he put Brylin at LW4 and Mike Rupp at 3C. Langenbrunner/Gionta would swap between those two lines.

That run was a little weird and if only reinforced the stereotype that the Devils had just enough offense to eek out wins. Almost like the Elias and Friesen lines took turns with who got hot or who went cold.