Olympics: What does your nations roster look like if NHLers don't go?

[wetcoast]

The NHL season was not at risk due to olympics so I don't know why the players would think that way. There was a break scheduled already, and those postponed games that are going to be played over the olympic break. The players representing their countries could have been replaced by taxi squad guys for those few games and keep the season running exactly the same as it is going to run now. Nothing about the olympics was standing in the way of completing it. They just would have needed to endure some prospects for a few games instead of the few stars each team would lose for a month.

COVID and Covid protocol?

Also the whole issue of uncertainty of the rules of quarantine in China for positive tests with an extremely contagious variant made committing to the Olympics at the time of the announcement unavoidable.

Seriously some peoples lack of understanding on this issue is truly astonishing to be charitable.

The NHLPA agreed with NHlers not going as well so this wasn't some Betttman only decision either and I despise Bettman.

 

[wetcoast]

Canada - 38 WHC Gold (inc. 11 womens)
Finland - 3 WHC Gold

Canada - 9 Best on Best Wins
Finland - 0 Best on Best wins

Canada - 13 Olympic gold (inc. 4 womens)
Finland - 0 Olympic gold

Thats 57-3 in Major Senior international wins.

We jump where we want.

I think the Finnish metal scene might be better than here in Canada but I'm not an expert on such matters which of course is showing how ill prepared I was when I joined in on a discussion of "What does your nations roster look like if NHLers don't go"

What in the world was I thinking?

 

[vorky]

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Thanks. About what I expected for the U.S. Have never heard of that goalie before. Lol. There's some talent here relative to the field but am not expecting much.

 

[Marioesque]

COVID and Covid protocol?

That is why NHL came up with taxi squad and that would apply just as well to people being out for virus or for olympics.

Also the whole issue of uncertainty of the rules of quarantine in China for positive tests with an extremely contagious variant made committing to the Olympics at the time of the announcement unavoidable.

More like NHL misrepresented the Chinese rules to the PA and created some doubt, all the while knowing that what they were saying was not accurate. Uncertainty was created and repeated well after it had been debunked.

Seriously some peoples lack of understanding on this issue is truly astonishing to be charitable.

I agree

 

[wetcoast]

That is why NHL came up with taxi squad and that would apply just as well to people being out for virus or for olympics.

The difference here is that the NHL has zero control over the virus and the players getting it, they have 100% control over the decision for the Oolympics and the timeline of the enw variant and disruption to the league was already great enough that they didn't have to create a bigger problem than the one that already existed.

You also don't seem to understand how the NHL or any business works.

The NHL has an obligation to it's fans and those paying the bills to play NHL games, not Olympic ones.

More like NHL misrepresented the Chinese rules to the PA and created some doubt, all the while knowing that what they were saying was not accurate. Uncertainty was created and repeated well after it had been debunked.

Do you have an actual quote or facts for this or just your subjective opinion on the matter?

Once again the NHLPA agreed to not sending NHL players to the Olympics and this isn't an Alan Eagleson type of players union these days.

 

[Marioesque]

You also don't seem to understand how the NHL or any business works.

I understand just fine. I am just exposing those who think that understanding businesses point of view requires accepting it as gospel.

I understand just fine what NHL wants. I don't understand why YOU want what NHL wants, which is no best on best Olympics. Why do you side with them? I don't get the perspective, for you guys who are defending NHL on this.

What do you personally stand to gain from not having best on best Olympics? How does it benefit you that those games are not played?

Why should fans of hockey come at it from the perspective of a business?

 

[wetcoast]

I understand just fine. I am just exposing those who think that understanding businesses point of view requires accepting it as gospel.

I understand just fine what NHL wants. I don't understand why YOU want what NHL wants, which is no best on best Olympics. Why do you side with them? I don't get the perspective, for you guys who are defending NHL on this.

What do you personally stand to gain from not having best on best Olympics? How does it benefit you that those games are not played?

Why should fans of hockey come at it from the perspective of a business?

Simply put I'd rather have a best on best in the off season and have zero problem with what the NHL decided along with the NHLPA at the time that they did with the information they had at hand.

I also, and would confidently, say that most NHL fans don't particularly want to do china any favors this Olympics for multiple reasons.

Why should the NHL take that risk, I know that I wouldn't and we already have best on best in the NHL, national best on bests would be great but look at hat happened to the WJHC, that's why the NHL made the decision they did and I have zero problems with that.

Also is there a reason why you haven't found quotes for this POV?

More like NHL misrepresented the Chinese rules to the PA and created some doubt, all the while knowing that what they were saying was not accurate. Uncertainty was created and repeated well after it had been debunked.

 

[Marioesque]

Simply put I'd rather have a best on best in the off season and have zero problem with what the NHL decided along with the NHLPA at the time that they did with the information they had at hand.

I also, and would confidently, say that most NHL fans don't particularly want to do china any favors this Olympics for multiple reasons.

Why should the NHL take that risk, I know that I wouldn't and we already have best on best in the NHL, national best on bests would be great but look at hat happened to the WJHC, that's why the NHL made the decision they did and I have zero problems with that.

Also is there a reason why you haven't found quotes for this POV?

I still don't see the explanation to what you as a hockey fan gain from not having best on best Olympics. You don't need to repeat why NHL wants to avoid it.

You're not NHL so don't answer as what NHL gains from it. Why do you not want best on best Olympics? From your personal perspective.

The reason why I haven't found you any such quotes is that I haven't bothered to look and don't have access to behind the scenes to confirm who started the rumors about Chinese quarantine.

 

[wetcoast]

I still don't see the explanation to what you as a hockey fan gain from not having best on best Olympics. You don't need to repeat why NHL wants to avoid it.

What do I lose in the Olympic off years, it hasn't changed my life.

You're not NHL so don't answer as what NHL gains from it. Why do you not want best on best Olympics? From your personal perspective.

I seem to get along without best on best, sure having a best on best every 2 years would be ideal but if you haven't noticed we aren't living in ideal conditions.

More on that down below as you didn't bother to back up your assertion because it simply wasn't true.

The reason why I haven't found you any such quotes is that I haven't bothered to look and don't have access to behind the scenes to confirm who started the rumors about Chinese quarantine.

So you made the following assertion and have zero to back it up?

One can say anything and and then pass it off as factual..
It's speculation, the NHL is running a business without a clear set of rules it would be stupid to send NHL players without a guarantee from the Chinese government on Covid protocol.

You are saying that it wasn't accurate so do you have the actual quarantine policy that the Chinese government and Olympic committee have agreed upon?

More like NHL misrepresented the Chinese rules to the PA and created some doubt, all the while knowing that what they were saying was not accurate. Uncertainty was created and repeated well after it had been debunked.

I took 2 seconds to goggle it

NHL players weigh risks, look for information as Olympic decision looms | Globalnews.ca

NHLers started to learn over the last number of days what a positive COVID-19 test could mean while they’re away chasing gold in China.
And it isn’t pretty.
The International Olympic Committee’s playbook states an athlete that tests positive for COVID-19 in China will need to produce two negative results 24 hours apart. If they’re unable to do so, players have been told the quarantine period could last between 21 days and five weeks, which would be governed by Chinese law.
That would mean potentially missing most or all of March’s NHL schedule — while isolating on the other side of the world — when the majority of teams are ramping up for a playoff push.

Why would NHL teams and the league risk that for something that doesn't really benefit them and add additional strain to the season which has had Covid problems already??

 

[Marioesque]

What do I lose in the Olympic off years, it hasn't changed my life.



I seem to get along without best on best, sure having a best on best every 2 years would be ideal but if you haven't noticed we aren't living in ideal conditions.

More on that down below as you didn't bother to back up your assertion because it simply wasn't true.



So you made the following assertion and have zero to back it up?

One can say anything and and then pass it off as factual..
It's speculation, the NHL is running a business without a clear set of rules it would be stupid to send NHL players without a guarantee from the Chinese government on Covid protocol.

You are saying that it wasn't accurate so do you have the actual quarantine policy that the Chinese government and Olympic committee have agreed upon?




I took 2 seconds to goggle it

NHL players weigh risks, look for information as Olympic decision looms | Globalnews.ca



Why would NHL teams and the league risk that for something that doesn't really benefit them and add additional strain to the season which has had Covid problems already??

Why can't you answer what do you get out of it? What is your personal benefit, if the players and the international fans do not get the tournament and NHL executives get their way and make more money?

Why is it so hard to answer? "I can live without " does not answer the question.

You are defending the side that is against the wishes of players and international hockey community. You need to have some sort of reasoning why you would side with a few shortsighted rich execs, against the stars of the show and the hockey fans around the world.

What is it?

I watch NHL, I have two games going as I write this, and I'm not their spokesperson and apologist. I understand they are intentional plugs between audiences (me) and best on best Olympics.

Why exactly as a fan of hockey should I defend the side that is actively blocking my ability to enjoy the games and the players dreams of playing in those games?

You're not helping to understand why we should defend the side that's hurting us. Do you have Stockholm syndrome?

 

[wetcoast]

Why can't you answer what do you get out of it? What is your personal benefit, if the players and the international fans do not get the tournament and NHL executives get their way and make more money?

I did answer, you just seem to have a problem with it or didn't like the answer.

The thing is, if you ask a question you don't get to control the answer.

I don't get anything out of the NHL not going to the Olympics, it also doesn't really bother me given the circumstances.

Canada will have a team there and it won't be best on best which is more the norm for the Olympics.

Why is it so hard to answer? "I can live without " does not answer the question.

It's not hard to answer as I did answer.

You are defending the side that is against the wishes of players and international hockey community. You need to have some sort of reasoning why you would side with a few shortsighted rich execs, against the stars of the show and the hockey fans around the world.

What is it?

No I'm explaining reality, I don't have anything invested in the Olympics really.

Also you have a distorted view here as the NHLPA (which represents the actual NHL players) agree with the decision and were involved.

I watch NHL, I have two games going as I write this, and I'm not their spokesperson and apologist. I understand they are intentional plugs between audiences (me) and best on best Olympics.

Not not really Covid is the thing not allowing you to watch NHLers at the Olympics that and a really strong quarantine guideline that China, not the Olympics or NHL controls.

Why exactly as a fan of hockey should I defend the side that is actively blocking my ability to enjoy the games and the players dreams of playing in those games?

I don't care what you do or think about it, neither does the NHL, Olympics or IIHF.

You're not helping to understand why we should defend the side that's hurting us.

Well for starters it's not my role in life to help you understand anything here.

Also how exactly is the NHL hurting us or even you?

Perhaps if you are really being hurt you should report them to the appropriate authorities?

Do you have Stockholm syndrome?

No I don't and I think it's a strange question to ask or perhaps you don't understand the emaning of the phrase?

Stock·holm syn·drome
/ˈstäkˌhō(l)m,ˈstäkōm ˈsinˌdrōm/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. feelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim toward a captor.

The NHL hasn't kidnapped me and they aren't my captor so how could this phrase even apply?

Look I know that Covid has been hard on everyone and if you are feeling mental fatigue please seek out the appropriate help, it's okay really.

 

[Marioesque]

They most certainly are your captor. Here you are, a hockey fan supposedly, who does not want best on best Olympics because some company executives have so decided.

You don't get to see those games, but you're defending the entity that prevents you from getting it. Prevents everyone and the players from having it.

I can't understand you because I am not in an abusive relationship with NHL. You care about some execs money over your own hockey enjoyment, over the world's hockey enjoyment. Over the players dreams. So what is the motivation to defend the one entity that is intentionally hurting everyone, for some perceived financial gain?

There has to be a reason why you would prioritize the good of the few over good of the many. I would hate to see what you would choose to do in the trolley problem.

Are you part of the few who somehow benefit from this, or can you otherwise explain your motive of rooting for not getting something nice?

Maybe you don't need to help me understand but it seems you don't even understand your own motives. At least you haven't even attempted to describe them.

 

[wetcoast]

They most certainly are your captor. Here you are, a hockey fan supposedly, who does not want best on best Olympics because some company executives have so decided.

I'm not sure what is more egregious?

Your assumption based on zero knowledge about me that I'm captive to the NHL or that I'm not a hockey fan?

You don't get to see those games, but you're defending the entity that prevents you from getting it. Prevents everyone and the players from having it.

Well here you are factually incorrect again, I can choose to watch the Olympic hockey games if I want, in fact I could even tape them and view them at my pleasure.

I really do lie awake at night about all of those losts souls that couldn't view the actual Olympic games pre television broadcasts, what tortured souls they must have, death must have been a relief for them all.

The players agreed to it once again with the NHLPA an agreement, I'm sure this has been pointed out to you but yet you fail to believe it. why...?

Also the Olympic games are going on...well unless something drastically happens with Covid but then again you seem to fail to understand that Covid is an issue at all even after it's been pointed out to you.

I can't understand you because I am not in an abusive relationship with NHL. You care about some execs money over your own hockey enjoyment, over the world's hockey enjoyment. Over the players dreams. So what is the motivation to defend the one entity that is intentionally hurting everyone, for some perceived financial gain?

It matters not what type of relationship you have with the NHL, real or imagined, and also I don't care about executives money, their concerns are of no interest to me and why would they be?

The players are living their dreams as they signed NHL contracts. Once again I'm not defending, just like I don;t defend the sun when I say it rises in the east every morning, I'm pointing out the facts of the matter with the situation in China.

You claimed that the NHLPA got duped by false Covid concerns and I fact checked it for you and those concerns are real.

Just like a child wants Candy for breakfast doesn't mean that giving them a nutritious meal is destroying their dreams is it?

On second thought I don't think we should hear your views on the family dynamic as that no doubt will be another slave/master relationship in your eyes.

As for your last point yes Bettman is sticking it to China and the IOC and IIHF and the players and their unborn children there is no Covid situation hear to see at all, move along don't look at the truth you can't handle it poor captive NHLers and their captive fans.

There has to be a reason why you would prioritize the good of the few over good of the many. I would hate to see what you would choose to do in the trolley problem.

If you want to get into moral and ethical questions the Olympics and the host country might be a better place to start but this isn't the time or place for that.

Are you part of the few who somehow benefit from this, or can you otherwise explain your motive of rooting for not getting something nice?

Why the zero sum game here?

What exactly do you do in Olympic off years?

Maybe you don't need to help me understand but it seems you don't even understand your own motives. At least you haven't even attempted to describe them.

I think that I have been very descriptive and I'm pretty sure that I understand myself more than some random HF boards poster who has never met me and is suing a couple of posts to make some sort of assessment as to my motives, that's just weird.

I'm no expert but it seems like the NHL is living rent free here.

 

[Marioesque]

I don't care about executives money, their concerns are of no interest to me and why would they be?

That's what I have been asking you all this time, good that you are now asking yourself the right question.

Now considering that, can you answer yourself? Why are you choosing to side with the business entity that prevents the games that all the world would enjoy and players want? Why are their interests your interests?

If you say you would enjoy the games then NHL is preventing you from having something you would enjoy.

Why in that situation would you choose to sacrifice your enjoyment and everyone else's enjoyment, for the sake of Bettman? Why is his wish more important than everyone else's? Why does it matter more to you that Bettman gets what he wants, than you and everyone else getting what they want?

You would need to look inward to answer that.

 

[wetcoast]

That's what I have been asking you all this time, good that you are now asking yourself the right question.

No this is what you originally asked.

What do you personally stand to gain from not having best on best Olympics? How does it benefit you that those games are not played?

I don't have anything to gain, nor do I have anything to lose, that must be why I'm allright in non Olympic years.

Why should fans of hockey come at it from the perspective of a business?

Fans of hockey can watch hockey anywhere anytime a game is being played, NHL fans understand that it is a business, I can't just go and watch any game live, it's a transaction.

Just like the Olympics why do they charge a ton of money to go watch an Olympic game, what if it was my dream to watch an Olympic game live and I couldn't afford it, I'm sure those people exist and the Olympics is destroying their dreams aren't they?

Heck I live in Vancouver and I know many people that really wanted tos ee that game live yet they couldn't why isn't the Olympics responsible for the loss of their dreams?

Now considering that, can you answer yourself? Why are you choosing to side with the business entity that prevents the games that all the world would enjoy and players want? Why are their interests your interests?

Once again their interests aren't my interests so instead of projecting what you want upon me stop and listen I'm not affiliated nor do I have a financial concern with any NHL team.

If I want to watch an Olympic hockey game on TV or tape it at my own pleasure then I'm free to do so.

If you say you would enjoy the games then NHL is preventing you from having something you would enjoy.

Covid and the quarantine rules are preventing the NHL payers from going they along with the league made that decision.

Don't forget that the NHLPA represents hundreds of NHL players not just the guys going to the Olympics, their primary concern is the NHL players and the NHL season, that is after all what their name implies they aren't the Olympic hockey committee or the IIHF which has different concerns.

Why in that situation would you choose to sacrifice your enjoyment and everyone else's enjoyment, for the sake of Bettman? Why is his wish more important than everyone else's? Why does it matter more to you that Bettman gets what he wants, than you and everyone else getting what they want?

Once again you are conflating the situation it's not just Bettmans wish it's the collective wish of the NHLPA association as well.

Also a sizeable portion of the Canadian public (40%) doesn't even want to send any Canadian athlete to the Olympics and that was in early December before the most recent virus outbreak.

53% of Canadians would not send diplomats to 2022 Olympic Games; two-in-five would keep athletes home - Angus Reid Institute

You would need to look inward to answer that.

Bettman seems to be living rent free in your head not mine given your misunderstanding of why NHLers aren't going to the Olympics..

I don't need to look inward to find an answer I'm perfectly content.

 

[Silky Johnson]

I still don't see the explanation to what you as a hockey fan gain from not having best on best Olympics. You don't need to repeat why NHL wants to avoid it.

You're not NHL so don't answer as what NHL gains from it. Why do you not want best on best Olympics? From your personal perspective.

The reason why I haven't found you any such quotes is that I haven't bothered to look and don't have access to behind the scenes to confirm who started the rumors about Chinese quarantine.

1. I care more about the NHL then the Olympics, particularly after two partial seasons.

2. I understand that the NHL is a business. Its not their problem and I would make the same decision as them in the same position. I blame the IIHF for fact that all International hockey tournaments are broken in some major way.

3. I am also very happy with anything that hurts the Olympics in China. I won't get into why in this forum.

 

[Silky Johnson]

If you are counting by money, not comparable. But top leagues in their regions yes, businesses just like NHL, yes.

And you're missing the point on World cup, they actually commit to a break during it world wide so there is no need to run secondary talent during that time. If NHL stayed true to their word, there would be no need for this discussion. But because NHL used covid as an excuse to avoid olympics, then came up with the solution of taxi squads, they could use that same solution to allow olympics to happen.

All you are saying is, they are too precious to do the bare minimum that other leagues and other, much larger sports manage to do.

You are speaking from the point of view of an NHL executive. I am not, I am a hockey fan and that rich executives need for another dollar does not in any shape or form matter to me. He is already rich, and the workers he has used to get rich want some time off, millions of fans worldwide want to see them. Why would I defend his greedy perspective when it's clearly only beneficial short term to him, not to the players who want to go and not for the world wide hockey audience? Players want to represent countries, people want to see it, some company executive can step aside and wait a bit. They don't own the players and they have to work with the players because the players are the product.

I don't understand siding with them. But maybe you can explain because you are someone who feels the need to mention more than once that they make a lot of money.

Also, African nations cup has way more than a 100 players from top euro leagues.

When I say "Top Leagues" I mean in the world. The NHL has the 5th most revenue in the world behind NFL, NBA, MLB, EPL and ahead of La Liga, Bundesliga Serie A. It is bigger than all of the European Hockey Leagues together including the KHL and then some. When compared to the NHL these leagues are not "top leagues".

Revenue is the best metric for size and success. It is a representation of the fans willingness to sacrifice for the sport. People "vote with their wallet". Revenue is directly connected to the quality of players and by extension play.

If you don't see the difference between losing more than a hundred African player spread across all the Euro football leagues and the NHL losing ALL (more than 100) of its TOP players, I don't know what to say.

I don't think I am missing the point. The NHL is not committing to a break because its in the interest of the league not to. I agree with them. The NHL season is more important than the Olympics. If they weren't in China and there was no Covid I would be happy for the break but that just isn't the case. The PLAYERS AGREE with this as well.

My point about making more money then the players in Europe was not about how much money I make, it is to illustrate how little they make. Its really quite pathetic.

Sports ownership/management is generally not about greed. There are MUCH better ways to invest your money in terms of ROI. It is much more likely to be a vanity project or just for the love of the game. You accuse them of exploiting players and maliciously ruining the fans desire for the Olympics. NHL players and teams share revenue 50/50 with all costs going to the teams and player contracts being fully guaranteed. Its one of the best labour contract in the world. The players even get a choose if they go to the Olympics. They agreed with the league that they should protect the NHL season and back out.

Also, I don't think you understand the concept of "Taxi Squads". They are used to have an expanded roster of players directly on hand in case of very last minute quarantine or positive test. If they were to allow players to go to the Olympics they would just call up players from their AHL affiliates. Its doesn't matter though because it will never happen.

 

[Czechboy]

Thanks. About what I expected for the U.S. Have never heard of that goalie before. Lol. There's some talent here relative to the field but am not expecting much.

It's not fair to US. Flat out. There should be an exemption for AHL players for US... then you'd have a medal contender again. You went from 'possibly better than Canada because Goalies are stronger, D is equal at a minimum and lacking a few C's' to 'I have never heard of these guys'.

Even Canada is cobbling together a very decent roster that I'm looking forward to watch playing.

FTR.. not saying you'll lose or not medal. I just don't feel like this is even close to a representation of US hockey and a very good program. It sucks!

 

[lilidk]

It will be nice to see those u20 bring their best teams to Olympic.

 

[Czechboy]

The NHL has the 5th most revenue in the world behind NFL, NBA, MLB, EPL

I learned something new today!

List of professional sports leagues by revenue - Wikipedia

 

[Czechboy]

It will be nice to see those u20 bring their best teams to Olympic.

I'm genuinely exctied to see my nations pro's play. It sucks there are no NHL players but I'm still looking forward to complaining about our roster when it's announced and our coach when we play! Same is it ever was.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

It's not fair to US. Flat out. There should be an exemption for AHL players for US... then you'd have a medal contender again. You went from 'possibly better than Canada because Goalies are stronger, D is equal at a minimum and lacking a few C's' to 'I have never heard of these guys'.

Even Canada is cobbling together a very decent roster that I'm looking forward to watch playing.

FTR.. not saying you'll lose or not medal. I just don't feel like this is even close to a representation of US hockey and a very good program. It sucks!

Yeah, not having access to AHL players hurts. Dustin Wolf for instance would be a god send in goal. That said, will be interesting to see what the final roster looks like. It appears the U.S. brass is including quote a few NCAA players which is probably a good thing. Like most U.S. teams it should be a good skating group.

 

[Gold Standard]

I'm genuinely exctied to see my nations pro's play. It sucks there are no NHL players but I'm still looking forward to complaining about our roster when it's announced and our coach when we play! Same is it ever was.

Nah, the only thing that would spark a bit of an interest in the Olympic tournament is if idiot boy Rothenburg names himself Head Coach of the Russian team. It would be fun watching him make a durak of himself. That's prime Olympic viewing right there.

 

[Czechboy]

Yeah, not having access to AHL players hurts. Dustin Wolf for instance would be a god send in goal. That said, will be interesting to see what the final roster looks like. It appears the U.S. brass is including quote a few NCAA players which is probably a good thing. Like most U.S. teams it should be a good skating group.

Zero doubt about that and could be a solid pain in the ass too!